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TelstraClear broadband

 
 
peterwn
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Posts: n/a
 
      09-19-2010
TelstraClear has kicked off a publicity campaign to persuade the
Government to stop or slow down broadband rollout in areas where it
has its cable system. At first glance it does seem sensible to
concentrate the rollout to areas where people have access to no better
than ADSL (copper pair) broadband. Possibly, the coax cable system is
doomed in due course.

For broadband, coax cable is superior to copper pairs but will remain
inferior to fibre optic. The key thing that drives capacity for a coax
cable system is the cable length and number of customers served.
Capacity and speed can be increased by extending the fibre optic
'overlay' on the cable network, in other words a continuing capital
investment in coaxial 'heads' and limited fibre optic extensions. The
cost would be far smaller than 'last mile' fibre to each customer. For
schools, libraries, etc, where fibre is desirable only limited fibre
extensions would be needed to connect either to TelstraClear or
Telecom fibre.

However there has been and to some extent still is customer irritation
at TelstraClear which would count against allowing it a 'priviliged'
situation. But IMO it would be far better for the Government and
TelstraClear to sort these out so broadband investment can go where it
is really needed.

As I see it, irritations past and present would be:
1. Poor customer interaction.
2. Forced bundling of phone service (but I think they now have some
'bare' broadband plans).
3. Network bottlenecking (when overlay investment lags increasing
demand).
4. Ridiculously high 'overuse' charges in the past.
5. Apparent over zealous caching of web pages on their servers so
customers are fed out of date pages.
6. 'Landing' charges when other NZ ISP's etc send pages to
TelstraClear customers (who also pay to receive pages). Citylink in
Wellington for example blocked services such as 'mirror' servers and
webcams to TelstraClear because of 'landing' charges whereas
originally the TelstraClear service in Wellington was 'peered' with
Citylink etc with nil data charges.
7. Exploitation of a non competitive situation.

Perhaps there are discussions on this in the background but
TelstraClear is finding the Government too hard nosed for its liking
so is trying to rally some public opinion on its side.
 
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Lawrence D'Oliveiro
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Posts: n/a
 
      09-19-2010
In message
<(E-Mail Removed)>, peterwn
wrote:

> Perhaps there are discussions on this in the background but
> TelstraClear is finding the Government too hard nosed for its liking
> so is trying to rally some public opinion on its side.


In the US the ISPs have filed lawsuits to stop competition from municipal
wifi/fibre rollouts.
 
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victor
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      09-20-2010
On 20/09/2010 9:29 a.m., peterwn wrote:
> Perhaps there are discussions on this in the background but
> TelstraClear is finding the Government too hard nosed for its liking
> so is trying to rally some public opinion on its side.



Don't be fooled.
TCs cable tv system is nothing like what is being proposed for UFB
TCs system is a Hybrid Fiber Coax distribution system, its not the same
as a fiber to the home/curb IP network, definitely not as robust or
future proof.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_fiber-coaxial

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FTTx

Even though TC is currently a fast option they charge top dollar and
give the minimum standard of support they can get away with.

 
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Simon
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      09-20-2010
On Sep 20, 9:29*am, peterwn <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> Perhaps there are discussions on this in the background but
> TelstraClear is finding the Government too hard nosed for its liking
> so is trying to rally some public opinion on its side.


Community-fibre rollout is a popular alternative in many countries,
although in some cases local Telco's are fighting them in the courts.

This article appeared in the NZ Herald recently and is an example of
what's happening locally: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/small-busi...ectid=10674273
 
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victor
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      09-20-2010
On 20/09/2010 9:29 a.m., peterwn wrote:
> TelstraClear has kicked off a publicity campaign to persuade the
> Government to stop or slow down broadband rollout in areas where it
> has its cable system. At first glance it does seem sensible to
> concentrate the rollout to areas where people have access to no better
> than ADSL (copper pair) broadband. Possibly, the coax cable system is
> doomed in due course.
>
> For broadband, coax cable is superior to copper pairs but will remain
> inferior to fibre optic. The key thing that drives capacity for a coax
> cable system is the cable length and number of customers served.
> Capacity and speed can be increased by extending the fibre optic
> 'overlay' on the cable network, in other words a continuing capital
> investment in coaxial 'heads' and limited fibre optic extensions. The
> cost would be far smaller than 'last mile' fibre to each customer. For
> schools, libraries, etc, where fibre is desirable only limited fibre
> extensions would be needed to connect either to TelstraClear or
> Telecom fibre.
>


<snipped stuff I agree with>


VDSL is capable of up to 52Mb/s on copper twisted pair
DOCSIS is capable of up to 42Mb/s using 256 QAM on coax.
So docsis doesn't even look that special compared to telecoms
cabinetized dsl.

One is a compromise to use phone systems to transport data to the home,
the other is a compromise to use cable tv systems to transport data to
the home. The real solution is to use a data network.

Citylink are the pioneers in rolling out a metro data network in
Wellington, which is also TCs coverage area, it just wouldn't make sense
to delay the roll-out in Wellington to indulge TC any more than it would
delaying it elsewhere to indulge DSL providers.
 
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peterwn
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Posts: n/a
 
      09-20-2010
On Sep 20, 9:34*pm, victor <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> VDSL is capable of up to 52Mb/s on copper twisted pair


Under optimal circumstances I presume, like having a cabinet outside
your front gate and pristine copper right up to the modem.

> DOCSIS is capable of up to 42Mb/s using 256 QAM on coax.
> So docsis doesn't even look that special compared to telecoms
> cabinetized dsl.


This would seem an average rather than optimal amount.

>
> One is a compromise to use phone systems to transport data to the home,
> the other is a compromise to use cable tv systems to transport data to
> the home. The real solution is to use a data network.


The issue as I see it - are these data rates satisfactory for say 95%
of households for say the next 10 years.

>
> Citylink are the pioneers in rolling out a metro data network in
> Wellington, which is also TCs coverage area,


The two are pretty well mutually exclusive - Citylink in th commercial
areas and TC in the residential areas.

> it just wouldn't make sense
> to delay the roll-out in Wellington to indulge TC any more than it would
> delaying it elsewhere to indulge DSL providers.


It makes sense with respect to households that have access to
satisfactory broadband or access that can fairly readily be made
satisfactory. IMO the areas that should be getting priority are
schools, businesses, public libraries, etc as well as areas currently
with crummy broadband service.

I agree that copper pairs and coax needto be upgraded in due course,
but I am at a loss to understand why those who have plenty should get
more early on, whereas those with poor service have to wait some
years.

Interestingly, there is one big advantage of copper right back to a
reasonably large exchange. They had both batteries (two sets of 25 or
so hoary big lead acid cells in large glass tanks) and standby
generators. Hence an ordinary phone kept working even if the power was
off. Cabinets AFAIK have very limited 'reserve' power capacity.

 
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victor
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Posts: n/a
 
      09-20-2010
On 20/09/2010 10:08 p.m., peterwn wrote:
> On Sep 20, 9:34 pm, victor<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> VDSL is capable of up to 52Mb/s on copper twisted pair

>
> Under optimal circumstances I presume, like having a cabinet outside
> your front gate and pristine copper right up to the modem.
>
>> DOCSIS is capable of up to 42Mb/s using 256 QAM on coax.
>> So docsis doesn't even look that special compared to telecoms
>> cabinetized dsl.

>
> This would seem an average rather than optimal amount.
>
>>
>> One is a compromise to use phone systems to transport data to the home,
>> the other is a compromise to use cable tv systems to transport data to
>> the home. The real solution is to use a data network.

>
> The issue as I see it - are these data rates satisfactory for say 95%
> of households for say the next 10 years.
>
>>
>> Citylink are the pioneers in rolling out a metro data network in
>> Wellington, which is also TCs coverage area,

>
> The two are pretty well mutually exclusive - Citylink in th commercial
> areas and TC in the residential areas.
>
>> it just wouldn't make sense
>> to delay the roll-out in Wellington to indulge TC any more than it would
>> delaying it elsewhere to indulge DSL providers.

>
> It makes sense with respect to households that have access to
> satisfactory broadband or access that can fairly readily be made
> satisfactory. IMO the areas that should be getting priority are
> schools, businesses, public libraries, etc as well as areas currently
> with crummy broadband service.
>


TC cable is part of the same marketplace as xDSL. It irrelevant in the
context of the RBI and UFB projects.
Their speed increase demo is a cynical PR stunt by bonding extra
channels on DOCSIS 3 and using twice the bandwidth on the coax at an
unaffordable rate. If you watched HD television on their data rate it
would cost a ****ing fortune. They can only do that because of the low
uptake of their service. They only connect to about 70,000 houses and
only about 65% of them use the cable broadband service. And UFB is a
threat to that business.
Citylink has a head start in Wellington so will probably complete their
roll-out first, regardless of the TC coverage.
TelstraClear want to convince you that what they are offering is
adequate, and it looks like they have succeeded so far.
But schools businesses public libraries etc aren't currently using TC
cable. Where possible in the Wellington region they are using Citylink
We need ubiquitous networking where using videoconferencing or on demand
HD content is a normal everday commodity.
TC are trying to maintain their market as a scarce expensive luxury for
as long as possible.

 
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William Brown
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Posts: n/a
 
      09-21-2010
On Tue, 21 Sep 2010 10:24:09 +1200, victor <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>On 20/09/2010 10:08 p.m., peterwn wrote:
>> On Sep 20, 9:34 pm, victor<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>
>>> VDSL is capable of up to 52Mb/s on copper twisted pair

>>
>> Under optimal circumstances I presume, like having a cabinet outside
>> your front gate and pristine copper right up to the modem.
>>
>>> DOCSIS is capable of up to 42Mb/s using 256 QAM on coax.
>>> So docsis doesn't even look that special compared to telecoms
>>> cabinetized dsl.

>>
>> This would seem an average rather than optimal amount.
>>
>>>
>>> One is a compromise to use phone systems to transport data to the home,
>>> the other is a compromise to use cable tv systems to transport data to
>>> the home. The real solution is to use a data network.

>>
>> The issue as I see it - are these data rates satisfactory for say 95%
>> of households for say the next 10 years.
>>
>>>
>>> Citylink are the pioneers in rolling out a metro data network in
>>> Wellington, which is also TCs coverage area,

>>
>> The two are pretty well mutually exclusive - Citylink in th commercial
>> areas and TC in the residential areas.
>>
>>> it just wouldn't make sense
>>> to delay the roll-out in Wellington to indulge TC any more than it would
>>> delaying it elsewhere to indulge DSL providers.

>>
>> It makes sense with respect to households that have access to
>> satisfactory broadband or access that can fairly readily be made
>> satisfactory. IMO the areas that should be getting priority are
>> schools, businesses, public libraries, etc as well as areas currently
>> with crummy broadband service.
>>

>
>TC cable is part of the same marketplace as xDSL. It irrelevant in the
>context of the RBI and UFB projects.
>Their speed increase demo is a cynical PR stunt by bonding extra
>channels on DOCSIS 3 and using twice the bandwidth on the coax at an
>unaffordable rate. If you watched HD television on their data rate it
>would cost a ****ing fortune. They can only do that because of the low
>uptake of their service. They only connect to about 70,000 houses and
>only about 65% of them use the cable broadband service. And UFB is a
>threat to that business.
>Citylink has a head start in Wellington so will probably complete their
>roll-out first, regardless of the TC coverage.
>TelstraClear want to convince you that what they are offering is
>adequate, and it looks like they have succeeded so far.
>But schools businesses public libraries etc aren't currently using TC
>cable. Where possible in the Wellington region they are using Citylink
>We need ubiquitous networking where using videoconferencing or on demand
>HD content is a normal everday commodity.
>TC are trying to maintain their market as a scarce expensive luxury for
>as long as possible.




Funny that they have just dropped there prices and doubled my Cap..
 
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Dave Doe
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      09-21-2010
In article <(E-Mail Removed)>,
http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed) says...
>
> On Tue, 21 Sep 2010 10:24:09 +1200, victor <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
> >On 20/09/2010 10:08 p.m., peterwn wrote:
> >> On Sep 20, 9:34 pm, victor<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> >>
> >>> VDSL is capable of up to 52Mb/s on copper twisted pair
> >>
> >> Under optimal circumstances I presume, like having a cabinet outside
> >> your front gate and pristine copper right up to the modem.
> >>
> >>> DOCSIS is capable of up to 42Mb/s using 256 QAM on coax.
> >>> So docsis doesn't even look that special compared to telecoms
> >>> cabinetized dsl.
> >>
> >> This would seem an average rather than optimal amount.
> >>
> >>>
> >>> One is a compromise to use phone systems to transport data to the home,
> >>> the other is a compromise to use cable tv systems to transport data to
> >>> the home. The real solution is to use a data network.
> >>
> >> The issue as I see it - are these data rates satisfactory for say 95%
> >> of households for say the next 10 years.
> >>
> >>>
> >>> Citylink are the pioneers in rolling out a metro data network in
> >>> Wellington, which is also TCs coverage area,
> >>
> >> The two are pretty well mutually exclusive - Citylink in th commercial
> >> areas and TC in the residential areas.
> >>
> >>> it just wouldn't make sense
> >>> to delay the roll-out in Wellington to indulge TC any more than it would
> >>> delaying it elsewhere to indulge DSL providers.
> >>
> >> It makes sense with respect to households that have access to
> >> satisfactory broadband or access that can fairly readily be made
> >> satisfactory. IMO the areas that should be getting priority are
> >> schools, businesses, public libraries, etc as well as areas currently
> >> with crummy broadband service.
> >>

> >
> >TC cable is part of the same marketplace as xDSL. It irrelevant in the
> >context of the RBI and UFB projects.
> >Their speed increase demo is a cynical PR stunt by bonding extra
> >channels on DOCSIS 3 and using twice the bandwidth on the coax at an
> >unaffordable rate. If you watched HD television on their data rate it
> >would cost a ****ing fortune. They can only do that because of the low
> >uptake of their service. They only connect to about 70,000 houses and
> >only about 65% of them use the cable broadband service. And UFB is a
> >threat to that business.
> >Citylink has a head start in Wellington so will probably complete their
> >roll-out first, regardless of the TC coverage.
> >TelstraClear want to convince you that what they are offering is
> >adequate, and it looks like they have succeeded so far.
> >But schools businesses public libraries etc aren't currently using TC
> >cable. Where possible in the Wellington region they are using Citylink
> >We need ubiquitous networking where using videoconferencing or on demand
> >HD content is a normal everday commodity.
> >TC are trying to maintain their market as a scarce expensive luxury for
> >as long as possible.

>
>
>
> Funny that they have just dropped there prices and doubled my Cap..


Are you even ON cable Woger?

Here are the new plans, effective Oct (*way* overdue IMO)...

http://www.telstraclear.co.nz/reside...nternet/cable-
broadband/plans.cfm

http://www.telstraclear.co.nz/reside...ages/index.cfm

For me, I get an extra 10Gb (60 instead of 50), a 5Mbps download
increase (to 15Mbps), and the upload speed remains at a lowly 2Mbps.
The price is down $10. To counter the price, the GST is up 2.5% from
the same month on that, my phone line and my mobile charges. In short at
just under $200 a month, I'll be lucky to save $5.

Now lets compare that with Telecom's VDSL. No reason you shouldn't get
around 40Mbps if you're quite close to the exchange. No cap. Bet the
pricing will be cheaper. I haven't looked at it for a while, but IIRC,
their test area rollout was in Oct?

And as for customer service, the last time I rang TS support it took 45
minutes to get to a human - Telecom took less than one minute earlier on
the same day. (I can only assume that since the XT debacle, Telecom have
*really* picked things up - and good on 'em).

--
Duncan.
 
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William Brown
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      09-21-2010
On Tue, 21 Sep 2010 14:37:07 +1200, Dave Doe <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>In article <(E-Mail Removed)>,
>(E-Mail Removed) says...
>>
>> On Tue, 21 Sep 2010 10:24:09 +1200, victor <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>
>> >On 20/09/2010 10:08 p.m., peterwn wrote:
>> >> On Sep 20, 9:34 pm, victor<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> VDSL is capable of up to 52Mb/s on copper twisted pair
>> >>
>> >> Under optimal circumstances I presume, like having a cabinet outside
>> >> your front gate and pristine copper right up to the modem.
>> >>
>> >>> DOCSIS is capable of up to 42Mb/s using 256 QAM on coax.
>> >>> So docsis doesn't even look that special compared to telecoms
>> >>> cabinetized dsl.
>> >>
>> >> This would seem an average rather than optimal amount.
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>> One is a compromise to use phone systems to transport data to the home,
>> >>> the other is a compromise to use cable tv systems to transport data to
>> >>> the home. The real solution is to use a data network.
>> >>
>> >> The issue as I see it - are these data rates satisfactory for say 95%
>> >> of households for say the next 10 years.
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>> Citylink are the pioneers in rolling out a metro data network in
>> >>> Wellington, which is also TCs coverage area,
>> >>
>> >> The two are pretty well mutually exclusive - Citylink in th commercial
>> >> areas and TC in the residential areas.
>> >>
>> >>> it just wouldn't make sense
>> >>> to delay the roll-out in Wellington to indulge TC any more than it would
>> >>> delaying it elsewhere to indulge DSL providers.
>> >>
>> >> It makes sense with respect to households that have access to
>> >> satisfactory broadband or access that can fairly readily be made
>> >> satisfactory. IMO the areas that should be getting priority are
>> >> schools, businesses, public libraries, etc as well as areas currently
>> >> with crummy broadband service.
>> >>
>> >
>> >TC cable is part of the same marketplace as xDSL. It irrelevant in the
>> >context of the RBI and UFB projects.
>> >Their speed increase demo is a cynical PR stunt by bonding extra
>> >channels on DOCSIS 3 and using twice the bandwidth on the coax at an
>> >unaffordable rate. If you watched HD television on their data rate it
>> >would cost a ****ing fortune. They can only do that because of the low
>> >uptake of their service. They only connect to about 70,000 houses and
>> >only about 65% of them use the cable broadband service. And UFB is a
>> >threat to that business.
>> >Citylink has a head start in Wellington so will probably complete their
>> >roll-out first, regardless of the TC coverage.
>> >TelstraClear want to convince you that what they are offering is
>> >adequate, and it looks like they have succeeded so far.
>> >But schools businesses public libraries etc aren't currently using TC
>> >cable. Where possible in the Wellington region they are using Citylink
>> >We need ubiquitous networking where using videoconferencing or on demand
>> >HD content is a normal everday commodity.
>> >TC are trying to maintain their market as a scarce expensive luxury for
>> >as long as possible.

>>
>>
>>
>> Funny that they have just dropped there prices and doubled my Cap..

>
>Are you even ON cable Woger?
>
>Here are the new plans, effective Oct (*way* overdue IMO)...
>
>http://www.telstraclear.co.nz/reside...nternet/cable-
>broadband/plans.cfm
>
>http://www.telstraclear.co.nz/reside...ages/index.cfm
>
>For me, I get an extra 10Gb (60 instead of 50), a 5Mbps download
>increase (to 15Mbps), and the upload speed remains at a lowly 2Mbps.
>The price is down $10. To counter the price, the GST is up 2.5% from
>the same month on that, my phone line and my mobile charges. In short at
>just under $200 a month, I'll be lucky to save $5.




May be you just cant read the New prices are with 15% GST its at the
bottom of the prices letter.


Mine goes from 20Gb to 40Gb and my price is 109.88 was $115.90 Plus the
new prices is with the 15% GST.

>Now lets compare that with Telecom's VDSL. No reason you shouldn't get
>around 40Mbps if you're quite close to the exchange. No cap. Bet the
>pricing will be cheaper. I haven't looked at it for a while, but IIRC,
>their test area rollout was in Oct?




Telecom does have a CAP as they dropped there go large, a Big Telecom
user and Ex Worker has moved to Slingshot as the have a no Cap service.


Plus you need to be with in 1k of the exchange.

>And as for customer service, the last time I rang TS support it took 45
>minutes to get to a human - Telecom took less than one minute earlier on
>the same day. (I can only assume that since the XT debacle, Telecom have
>*really* picked things up - and good on 'em).




Please don't forget that TC is upping the speed to some 100Gbps and
upping the service to support HD and there new set top PVR box..

May be you just don't read this news group very often but most people
here Hate Telescum.
 
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