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Re: America

 
 
chuckcar
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Posts: n/a
 
      09-06-2010
"Mr Pounder" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
news:vA9ho.46619$(E-Mail Removed)2:

> I've just got yet another chainmail blaming America for the deaths of
> British soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan.
>
> I am not an historian, but I have never of the American people
> slagging off Britain for the deaths of American soldiers whilst they
> were fighting for Britain in WW2.
>
> I lived in Australia whilst the Viet Nam war was being fought. To the
> best of my recollections the Australian people did not blame America
> for the deaths of their soldiers.
>

If it has any basis in fact, it's with friendly fire. Something both the
Canadian and UK forces have worried about the US forces since during WWII.
The US *does* make such mistakes more than any other western country, quite
possibly due to their shorter training periods and allowing their forces to
use things like Benzedrine while on combat missions in a war zone.


--
(setq (chuck nil) car(chuck) )
 
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Mike P
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      09-07-2010
On Mon, 06 Sep 2010 23:18:45 +0000, chuckcar boggled us with:

> "Mr Pounder" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
> news:vA9ho.46619$(E-Mail Removed)2:
>
>> I've just got yet another chainmail blaming America for the deaths of
>> British soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan.
>>
>> I am not an historian, but I have never of the American people slagging
>> off Britain for the deaths of American soldiers whilst they were
>> fighting for Britain in WW2.
>>
>> I lived in Australia whilst the Viet Nam war was being fought. To the
>> best of my recollections the Australian people did not blame America
>> for the deaths of their soldiers.
>>

> If it has any basis in fact, it's with friendly fire. Something both the
> Canadian and UK forces have worried about the US forces since during
> WWII. The US *does* make such mistakes more than any other western
> country, quite possibly due to their shorter training periods and
> allowing their forces to use things like Benzedrine while on combat
> missions in a war zone.


Excerpt from my Grandfather's war diary. 25th Jan, 1943. Somewhere near
Tripoli

"During the training period 50% of one platoon are made casualties
through inaccurate Yankee bombing. Their target was ten miles away and
they missed killing five and wounding another eight. I gave the stretcher-
bearers a hand. After that we dashed for cover on sighting any kind of
plane, particularly the 18’s which were nearly all American.

The day after this occurrence I am caught in the open by a Jerry bomber.
I couldn’t believe, after ridding myself of dust, that I was unhurt"

--
Mike P
 
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Mike Yetto
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Posts: n/a
 
      09-07-2010
chuckcar <(E-Mail Removed)> writes and having writ moves on.
>"Mr Pounder" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
>news:vA9ho.46619$(E-Mail Removed)2:


>> I've just got yet another chainmail blaming America for the deaths of
>> British soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan.
>>
>> I am not an historian, but I have never of the American people
>> slagging off Britain for the deaths of American soldiers whilst they
>> were fighting for Britain in WW2.
>>
>> I lived in Australia whilst the Viet Nam war was being fought. To the
>> best of my recollections the Australian people did not blame America
>> for the deaths of their soldiers.
>>

>If it has any basis in fact, it's with friendly fire. Something both the
>Canadian and UK forces have worried about the US forces since during WWII.
>The US *does* make such mistakes more than any other western country, quite
>possibly due to their shorter training periods and allowing their forces to
>use things like Benzedrine while on combat missions in a war zone.


If that's the case you'll, no doubt, be able to substantiate those
claims with documented studies. And I do mean more than one poor
study reported multiple times.

Mike "put up pr STFU" Yetto
--
In theory, theory and practice are the same.
In practice they are not.
 
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Mike Yetto
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Posts: n/a
 
      09-07-2010
chuckcar <(E-Mail Removed)> writes and having writ moves on.
>Mike Yetto <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
>news:(E-Mail Removed) al-september.org:


>> chuckcar <(E-Mail Removed)> writes and having writ moves on.
>>>"Mr Pounder" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
>>>news:vA9ho.46619$(E-Mail Removed)2:

>>
>>>> I've just got yet another chainmail blaming America for the deaths
>>>> of British soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan.
>>>>
>>>> I am not an historian, but I have never of the American people
>>>> slagging off Britain for the deaths of American soldiers whilst they
>>>> were fighting for Britain in WW2.
>>>>
>>>> I lived in Australia whilst the Viet Nam war was being fought. To
>>>> the best of my recollections the Australian people did not blame
>>>> America for the deaths of their soldiers.
>>>>
>>>If it has any basis in fact, it's with friendly fire. Something both
>>>the Canadian and UK forces have worried about the US forces since
>>>during WWII. The US *does* make such mistakes more than any other
>>>western country, quite possibly due to their shorter training periods
>>>and allowing their forces to use things like Benzedrine while on
>>>combat missions in a war zone.

>>
>> If that's the case you'll, no doubt, be able to substantiate those
>> claims with documented studies. And I do mean more than one poor
>> study reported multiple times.
>>

>Studies? name *one* published study of international rating of army
>performance or comparison of same with other countries.


Thet is what I just challenged you to do. You are the one trying
to prove a point, so offer some proof.

>There is no such thing. Because that would be seen by defence
>forces as a gross breach of security. However, I'll give you a
>very well documented case that shows *exactly* what I said. In
>Afganistan.


You admit there is no such proof and yet you offer up a single
data point to prove the results of a comparison. Do you even
comprehend what *you* write?

>http://tech.mit.edu/V122/N19/Long_3_19.19w.html


>This was all over the news when it happened. The pilot *was* on
>Benzedrine and completely ignored any orders *not* to fire. And it was
>far from the only incident that year or during the period when the Afgan
>war was under full tilt.


And now we have another single data point offered as proof of a
trend.

>You simply will not get anything other than reported incidents. The
>above one was made into an inquiry by pressure from the Canadian Govt.
>and the pilot removed from flying.


When I was on a USAF firing range qualifying with an M-16 there
was one recruit there who put seventy (70) rounds through a
single two inch hole in his target. Did that make all of us
expert shots? One data point is not a pattern, trend or
indication of anything/

Mike "again, you supply your own proof" Yetto
--
In theory, theory and practice are the same.
In practice they are not.
 
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chuckcar
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      09-07-2010
Mike Yetto <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
news:(E-Mail Removed)-september.org:

> chuckcar <(E-Mail Removed)> writes and having writ moves on.
>>Mike Yetto <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
>>news:(E-Mail Removed) l-september.org:

>
>>> chuckcar <(E-Mail Removed)> writes and having writ moves on.
>>>>"Mr Pounder" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
>>>>news:vA9ho.46619$(E-Mail Removed)2:
>>>
>>>>> I've just got yet another chainmail blaming America for the deaths
>>>>> of British soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am not an historian, but I have never of the American people
>>>>> slagging off Britain for the deaths of American soldiers whilst
>>>>> they were fighting for Britain in WW2.
>>>>>
>>>>> I lived in Australia whilst the Viet Nam war was being fought. To
>>>>> the best of my recollections the Australian people did not blame
>>>>> America for the deaths of their soldiers.
>>>>>
>>>>If it has any basis in fact, it's with friendly fire. Something both
>>>>the Canadian and UK forces have worried about the US forces since
>>>>during WWII. The US *does* make such mistakes more than any other
>>>>western country, quite possibly due to their shorter training
>>>>periods and allowing their forces to use things like Benzedrine
>>>>while on combat missions in a war zone.
>>>
>>> If that's the case you'll, no doubt, be able to substantiate those
>>> claims with documented studies. And I do mean more than one poor
>>> study reported multiple times.
>>>

>>Studies? name *one* published study of international rating of army
>>performance or comparison of same with other countries.

>
> Thet is what I just challenged you to do. You are the one trying
> to prove a point, so offer some proof.
>

There simply *won't* be. What part of top secret don't you understand?

>>There is no such thing. Because that would be seen by defence
>>forces as a gross breach of security. However, I'll give you a
>>very well documented case that shows *exactly* what I said. In
>>Afganistan.

>
> You admit there is no such proof and yet you offer up a single
> data point to prove the results of a comparison. Do you even
> comprehend what *you* write?
>
>>http://tech.mit.edu/V122/N19/Long_3_19.19w.html

>
>>This was all over the news when it happened. The pilot *was* on
>>Benzedrine and completely ignored any orders *not* to fire. And it was
>>far from the only incident that year or during the period when the
>>Afgan war was under full tilt.

>
> And now we have another single data point offered as proof of a
> trend.
>
>>You simply will not get anything other than reported incidents. The
>>above one was made into an inquiry by pressure from the Canadian Govt.
>>and the pilot removed from flying.

>
> When I was on a USAF firing range qualifying with an M-16 there
> was one recruit there who put seventy (70) rounds through a
> single two inch hole in his target. Did that make all of us
> expert shots? One data point is not a pattern, trend or
> indication of anything/
>

Did he also shot his drill instructor? Stanley Kubrick didn't make that
bit of drama up out of thin air you know. Besides, what does that have
to do with judgement or not caring about making a mistake in same?

Again, your complete lack of understanding of the truth of the real
world shows itself.


--
(setq (chuck nil) car(chuck) )
 
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harry
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      09-07-2010
On 7 Sep, 09:14, Mike P <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> On Mon, 06 Sep 2010 23:18:45 +0000, chuckcar boggled us with:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Mr Pounder" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
> >news:vA9ho.46619$(E-Mail Removed)2:

>
> >> I've just got yet another chainmail blaming America for the deaths of
> >> British soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan.

>
> >> I am not an historian, but I have never of the American people slagging
> >> off Britain for the deaths of American soldiers whilst they were
> >> fighting for Britain in WW2.

>
> >> I lived in Australia whilst the Viet Nam war was being fought. To the
> >> best of my recollections the Australian people did not blame America
> >> for the deaths of their soldiers.

>
> > If it has any basis in fact, it's with friendly fire. Something both the
> > Canadian and UK forces have worried about the US forces since during
> > WWII. The US *does* make such mistakes more than any other western
> > country, quite possibly due to their shorter training periods and
> > allowing their forces to use things like Benzedrine while on combat
> > missions in a war zone.

>
> Excerpt from my Grandfather's war diary. 25th Jan, 1943. Somewhere near
> Tripoli
>
> "During the training period 50% of one platoon are made casualties
> through inaccurate Yankee bombing. Their target was ten miles away and
> they missed killing five and wounding another eight. I gave the stretcher-
> bearers a hand. After that we dashed for cover on sighting any kind of
> plane, particularly the 18s which were nearly all American.
>
> The day after this occurrence I am caught in the open by a Jerry bomber.
> I couldnt believe, after ridding myself of dust, that I was unhurt"
>
> --
> Mike P- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -


Hah. The Yanks bombed Prague by mistake when Dresden was the intended
target. Broad daylight too.
 
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Mr Pounder
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Posts: n/a
 
      09-07-2010

"chuckcar" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:Xns9DEC8C39E76D7chuck@127.0.0.1...
> Mike Yetto <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
> news:(E-Mail Removed)-september.org:
>
>> chuckcar <(E-Mail Removed)> writes and having writ moves on.
>>>Mike Yetto <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
>>>news:(E-Mail Removed) al-september.org:

>>
>>>> chuckcar <(E-Mail Removed)> writes and having writ moves on.
>>>>>"Mr Pounder" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
>>>>>news:vA9ho.46619$(E-Mail Removed)2:
>>>>
>>>>>> I've just got yet another chainmail blaming America for the deaths
>>>>>> of British soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am not an historian, but I have never of the American people
>>>>>> slagging off Britain for the deaths of American soldiers whilst
>>>>>> they were fighting for Britain in WW2.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I lived in Australia whilst the Viet Nam war was being fought. To
>>>>>> the best of my recollections the Australian people did not blame
>>>>>> America for the deaths of their soldiers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>If it has any basis in fact, it's with friendly fire. Something both
>>>>>the Canadian and UK forces have worried about the US forces since
>>>>>during WWII. The US *does* make such mistakes more than any other
>>>>>western country, quite possibly due to their shorter training
>>>>>periods and allowing their forces to use things like Benzedrine
>>>>>while on combat missions in a war zone.
>>>>
>>>> If that's the case you'll, no doubt, be able to substantiate those
>>>> claims with documented studies. And I do mean more than one poor
>>>> study reported multiple times.
>>>>
>>>Studies? name *one* published study of international rating of army
>>>performance or comparison of same with other countries.

>>
>> Thet is what I just challenged you to do. You are the one trying
>> to prove a point, so offer some proof.
>>

> There simply *won't* be. What part of top secret don't you understand?
>
>>>There is no such thing. Because that would be seen by defence
>>>forces as a gross breach of security. However, I'll give you a
>>>very well documented case that shows *exactly* what I said. In
>>>Afganistan.

>>
>> You admit there is no such proof and yet you offer up a single
>> data point to prove the results of a comparison. Do you even
>> comprehend what *you* write?
>>
>>>http://tech.mit.edu/V122/N19/Long_3_19.19w.html

>>
>>>This was all over the news when it happened. The pilot *was* on
>>>Benzedrine and completely ignored any orders *not* to fire. And it was
>>>far from the only incident that year or during the period when the
>>>Afgan war was under full tilt.

>>
>> And now we have another single data point offered as proof of a
>> trend.
>>
>>>You simply will not get anything other than reported incidents. The
>>>above one was made into an inquiry by pressure from the Canadian Govt.
>>>and the pilot removed from flying.

>>
>> When I was on a USAF firing range qualifying with an M-16 there
>> was one recruit there who put seventy (70) rounds through a
>> single two inch hole in his target. Did that make all of us
>> expert shots? One data point is not a pattern, trend or
>> indication of anything/
>>

> Did he also shot his drill instructor? Stanley Kubrick didn't make that
> bit of drama up out of thin air you know. Besides, what does that have
> to do with judgement or not caring about making a mistake in same?
>
> Again, your complete lack of understanding of the truth of the real
> world shows itself.
>
>
> --
> (setq (chuck nil) car(chuck) )


Hang about!
What happened to my original posting?
You are all off topic, I once got reported to my ISP for posting off topic.

Mr Pounder


 
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chuckcar
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Posts: n/a
 
      09-07-2010
"Mr Pounder" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
news:T4xho.16788$(E-Mail Removed)2:

>
> "chuckcar" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:Xns9DEC8C39E76D7chuck@127.0.0.1...
>> Mike Yetto <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
>> news:(E-Mail Removed)-september.org:
>>

>
> Hang about!
> What happened to my original posting?
> You are all off topic, I once got reported to my ISP for posting off
> topic.
>

You're kidding right? use a free server FCS if that's the case.

I'm talking about US friendly fire. Surely this branch of the thread is
completely On-topic.


--
(setq (chuck nil) car(chuck) )
 
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Aardvark
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      09-08-2010
On Tue, 07 Sep 2010 16:20:44 +0000, chuckcar wrote:

> Afgan


WTF?????



--
The rocket bombs which fell daily on London were probably fired by
the Government of Oceania itself, ’just to keep people frightened’.
This was an idea that had literally never occurred to him.
--- George Orwell, 1984
 
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Mike Yetto
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      09-08-2010
chuckcar <(E-Mail Removed)> writes and having writ moves on.
>There simply *won't* be. What part of top secret don't you understand?


Top Secret: Information, the unauthorized disclosure of which,
would cause grave harm to the United States.

I'd say that you don't have the need to know more, but you don't
have the ability.

Mike "then I'd have to killfile you" Yetto
--
In theory, theory and practice are the same.
In practice they are not.
 
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