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CPU fan.

 
 
Meat Plow
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      09-04-2010
On Fri, 03 Sep 2010 22:27:26 +0000, Aardvark wrote:

> On Fri, 03 Sep 2010 22:02:03 +0000, Meat Plow wrote:
>
>> That type of self lubricated bronze bearing does have a finite life but
>> usually they wear and cause a shaft wiggle that results in the classic
>> REPLACE ME noise. I'm sure you know what I mean.

>
> Heh. Oh yeah.
>
> That's the reason I suggested the OP replace it, because I know how
> difficult it is sometimes to get rid of components that have served one
> well. I got rid of a fan a while ago which I had lovingly tended for the
> best part of six years- for quite some time after it seriously asked to
> be replaced. I finally gave in and changed both the sink and fan.
>
> I can imagine his reluctance to accept the inevitable and do what needs
> to be done. I just thought I'd nudge him in the direction I thought he
> might need to go.
>
>


Back when I worked for an IT company I drove a van that had all sorts of
PC parts, networking stuff like coax cable, taps, ethernet junk etc..etc..
I had a bin in the van with a dozen different style CPU coolers because a
lot of these companies left the workstations on 24/7. Once one got shut
down and turned back on the old CPU fan would hum and we would get a
trouble call. People would describe their workstation as sounding like it
was going to blow up. Now adays the better stuff is ball bearing. Still
has a finite life but I don't know if it's longer than bronze self-
lubricating? I yanked a 120mm fan out of a Coolmaster 600 watt PSU for
the back of my case. It has 9 shaped fan blades instead of the usual 6
unarticulated blades for a more quiet operation and more airflow at lower
rpm. Plus it's ball bearing. Pulls a good amount of air through the case.
Drives are up front as usual but sit behind filtered vents. They stay
cool to the touch.



--
Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse
 
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ian field
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      09-04-2010

"Buffalo" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:i5rvvb$nlg$(E-Mail Removed)-september.org...
>
>
> ian field wrote:
>> "Mike Easter" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>> ian field wrote:
>>>
>>>> When I unclipped the fan from the heatsink I found the fins packed
>>>> with a great wad of gunge - the fan hasn't been blowing air through
>>>> the fins for quite some time and there haven't been any of the kind
>>>> of glitches I'd associate with an overheating CPU.
>>>
>>> Is it possible that you are confusing 'unclipping' a fan from a
>>> heatsink with unclipping a heatsink from a CPU?
>>>
>>> Is it possible that you are confusing fin 'gunge' with heat transfer
>>> compound?

>>
>>
>> You seem to be rather confused (apparently not difficult!).
>>
>> The silver loaded heatsink transfer compound I use isn't cheap and
>> isn't easy to mistake for gunge that collects in the fan (although I
>> can't speak for your inability to tell the difference).
>>
>> Also, because I use top of the range (expensive) heatsink compound - I
>> always remove only the fan for cleaning and do everything possible to
>> avoid disturbing the heatsink.
>>
>> I'm a little surprised that someone who gives advice on a support
>> group could make such an idiotic comment!

>
> If the heatsink is making good flat contact with the cpu and you are using
> a
> quality heatsink compound and the heatsink fins are only lukewarm, then no
> problem running the cpu without the fan with the load you are running at
> that time.
> A free program, called MBM (motherboardmonitor) can monitor the cpu temps,
> among other things, if you are so interested.
> I've watched some vids that show how quick some cpu's will self-destruct
> without a heatsink. Wow, in a second or less.
> If you don't believe you need a cpu fan running all the time, I believe
> you
> can buy some that work with the heatsink temp.
> Have a fun weekend.
> Buffalo



Not so sure I'd trust a MOBO monitor that shows the CPU temp fluctuating
wildly between 6C & 60C.


 
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Buffalo
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      09-04-2010


ian field wrote:
> "Buffalo" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:i5rvvb$nlg$(E-Mail Removed)-september.org...
>>
>>
>> ian field wrote:
>>> "Mike Easter" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>>> ian field wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> When I unclipped the fan from the heatsink I found the fins packed
>>>>> with a great wad of gunge - the fan hasn't been blowing air
>>>>> through the fins for quite some time and there haven't been any
>>>>> of the kind of glitches I'd associate with an overheating CPU.
>>>>
>>>> Is it possible that you are confusing 'unclipping' a fan from a
>>>> heatsink with unclipping a heatsink from a CPU?
>>>>
>>>> Is it possible that you are confusing fin 'gunge' with heat
>>>> transfer compound?
>>>
>>>
>>> You seem to be rather confused (apparently not difficult!).
>>>
>>> The silver loaded heatsink transfer compound I use isn't cheap and
>>> isn't easy to mistake for gunge that collects in the fan (although I
>>> can't speak for your inability to tell the difference).
>>>
>>> Also, because I use top of the range (expensive) heatsink compound
>>> - I always remove only the fan for cleaning and do everything
>>> possible to avoid disturbing the heatsink.
>>>
>>> I'm a little surprised that someone who gives advice on a support
>>> group could make such an idiotic comment!

>>
>> If the heatsink is making good flat contact with the cpu and you are
>> using a
>> quality heatsink compound and the heatsink fins are only lukewarm,
>> then no problem running the cpu without the fan with the load you
>> are running at that time.
>> A free program, called MBM (motherboardmonitor) can monitor the cpu
>> temps, among other things, if you are so interested.
>> I've watched some vids that show how quick some cpu's will
>> self-destruct without a heatsink. Wow, in a second or less.
>> If you don't believe you need a cpu fan running all the time, I
>> believe you
>> can buy some that work with the heatsink temp.
>> Have a fun weekend.
>> Buffalo

>
>
> Not so sure I'd trust a MOBO monitor that shows the CPU temp
> fluctuating wildly between 6C & 60C.

I don't understand. If you tried MBM and it is doing that, try uninstalling
it and reinstalling it and make sure you choose the proper cpu or sensor in
MBM.
Buffalo


 
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ian field
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      09-04-2010

"Dan C" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news(E-Mail Removed)...
> On Fri, 03 Sep 2010 21:18:08 +0100, ian field wrote:
>
>> "Meat Plow" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> news(E-Mail Removed). I.am...
>>> On Fri, 03 Sep 2010 19:21:34 +0100, ian field wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Meat Plow" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>>> news(E-Mail Removed). I.am...
>>>>> On Fri, 03 Sep 2010 17:23:43 +0100, ian field wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Sitting here wondering what all the fuss is about regarding CPU
>>>>>> fans.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The fan didn't start because it was clogged with tobacco tar, dust &
>>>>>> fluff, so out it came for cleaning.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Before putting it back together I decided to run some Slick50 PTFE
>>>>>> oil into the fan bearing, so the fan is laying flat on the video
>>>>>> card so I can keep it spinning and work the oil into the bearing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Obviously as the fan is not at this moment attached to the heatsink
>>>>>> I keep putting my hand on the fins to check the temperature - its
>>>>>> not getting any more than luke warm.
>>>>>
>>>>> Under load it could draw double the wattage.
>>>>
>>>> Maybe I don't work it that hard.
>>>>
>>>> When I unclipped the fan from the heatsink I found the fins packed
>>>> with a great wad of gunge - the fan hasn't been blowing air through
>>>> the fins for quite some time and there haven't been any of the kind of
>>>> glitches I'd associate with an overheating CPU.
>>>
>>> Most decent motherboards provide fan control for noise reduction. When
>>> I encode mpeg video my fan speed rises slightly as the CPU warms. At
>>> idle the CPU fan turns at 2000 rpm, that's less than half full speed.
>>> The 120mm chassis fan has the same control. As the chassis temp rises
>>> the fan speed increases. I can set the motherboard for high performance
>>> say if I wanted to overclock this quad core to 4ghz. I've tried it.
>>> Both fans run at max RPM and the box sounds like a vacuum cleaner. I
>>> guess my point is that if you had fan speed control and your heat sink
>>> became clogged you would have noticed an increase in fan speed before
>>> it was so clogged it stopped the fan. Depending on how much usage the
>>> CPU gets you might get by with no fan at all as long as your sink
>>> device has sufficient surcase area. A lot of Dell computers several
>>> years ago had a towering heat sink with no dedicated fan, just a 120mm
>>> fan in the back.

>>
>>
>> On this MOBO the CPU fan speed seems to be determined entirely by the
>> combined effect of how good a job I make of cleaning the fan blades and
>> how much PTFE oil I manage to work into the bearing.
>>
>> Previously the fan was noisy because the gunge on the blades was hitting
>> the gunge on the fins.
>>
>> Now I've cleaned it, it isn't any quieter because its spinning a hell of
>> a lot faster.

>
> OK, so you're a dirty slob. Who the **** cares? What's your goddam
> point?



No particular point - but I certainly seem to have drawn a few crazies out
of the woodwork.


 
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ian field
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Posts: n/a
 
      09-04-2010

"Mike Easter" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> ian field wrote:
>> "Mike Easter"

>
>>>>> What is this mobo? What is this CPU?

>
>>> Starting a topic talking about why the CPU fan wasn't necessary without
>>> including the CPU in question doesn't tell me that the OP is well
>>> informed.

>
>> So faced with *ANY* void in the info, you have a standard fallback of
>> assuming the OP is as thick as you?

>
> Some CPUs both old and new, don't (even) require a fan. Doh.



So you didn't read the start of my first paragraph where I stated the fan
had stopped because it was clogged up.


 
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Meat Plow
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Posts: n/a
 
      09-04-2010
On Sat, 04 Sep 2010 16:51:55 +0100, ian field wrote:

> "Buffalo" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:i5rvvb$nlg$(E-Mail Removed)-september.org...
>>
>>
>> ian field wrote:
>>> "Mike Easter" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>>> ian field wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> When I unclipped the fan from the heatsink I found the fins packed
>>>>> with a great wad of gunge - the fan hasn't been blowing air through
>>>>> the fins for quite some time and there haven't been any of the kind
>>>>> of glitches I'd associate with an overheating CPU.
>>>>
>>>> Is it possible that you are confusing 'unclipping' a fan from a
>>>> heatsink with unclipping a heatsink from a CPU?
>>>>
>>>> Is it possible that you are confusing fin 'gunge' with heat transfer
>>>> compound?
>>>
>>>
>>> You seem to be rather confused (apparently not difficult!).
>>>
>>> The silver loaded heatsink transfer compound I use isn't cheap and
>>> isn't easy to mistake for gunge that collects in the fan (although I
>>> can't speak for your inability to tell the difference).
>>>
>>> Also, because I use top of the range (expensive) heatsink compound - I
>>> always remove only the fan for cleaning and do everything possible to
>>> avoid disturbing the heatsink.
>>>
>>> I'm a little surprised that someone who gives advice on a support
>>> group could make such an idiotic comment!

>>
>> If the heatsink is making good flat contact with the cpu and you are
>> using a
>> quality heatsink compound and the heatsink fins are only lukewarm, then
>> no problem running the cpu without the fan with the load you are
>> running at that time.
>> A free program, called MBM (motherboardmonitor) can monitor the cpu
>> temps, among other things, if you are so interested. I've watched some
>> vids that show how quick some cpu's will self-destruct without a
>> heatsink. Wow, in a second or less. If you don't believe you need a cpu
>> fan running all the time, I believe you
>> can buy some that work with the heatsink temp. Have a fun weekend.
>> Buffalo

>
>
> Not so sure I'd trust a MOBO monitor that shows the CPU temp fluctuating
> wildly between 6C & 60C.


Some mobos have what they call APCI sensors. Don't ask me exactly what it
is but they aren't as accurate as a dedicated sensor.



--
Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse
 
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Meat Plow
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      09-04-2010
On Sat, 04 Sep 2010 17:25:39 +0100, ian field wrote:

> "Dan C" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news(E-Mail Removed)...
>> On Fri, 03 Sep 2010 21:18:08 +0100, ian field wrote:
>>
>>> "Meat Plow" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>> news(E-Mail Removed). I.am...
>>>> On Fri, 03 Sep 2010 19:21:34 +0100, ian field wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "Meat Plow" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>>>> news(E-Mail Removed). I.am...
>>>>>> On Fri, 03 Sep 2010 17:23:43 +0100, ian field wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sitting here wondering what all the fuss is about regarding CPU
>>>>>>> fans.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The fan didn't start because it was clogged with tobacco tar, dust
>>>>>>> & fluff, so out it came for cleaning.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Before putting it back together I decided to run some Slick50 PTFE
>>>>>>> oil into the fan bearing, so the fan is laying flat on the video
>>>>>>> card so I can keep it spinning and work the oil into the bearing.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Obviously as the fan is not at this moment attached to the
>>>>>>> heatsink I keep putting my hand on the fins to check the
>>>>>>> temperature - its not getting any more than luke warm.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Under load it could draw double the wattage.
>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe I don't work it that hard.
>>>>>
>>>>> When I unclipped the fan from the heatsink I found the fins packed
>>>>> with a great wad of gunge - the fan hasn't been blowing air through
>>>>> the fins for quite some time and there haven't been any of the kind
>>>>> of glitches I'd associate with an overheating CPU.
>>>>
>>>> Most decent motherboards provide fan control for noise reduction.
>>>> When I encode mpeg video my fan speed rises slightly as the CPU
>>>> warms. At idle the CPU fan turns at 2000 rpm, that's less than half
>>>> full speed. The 120mm chassis fan has the same control. As the
>>>> chassis temp rises the fan speed increases. I can set the motherboard
>>>> for high performance say if I wanted to overclock this quad core to
>>>> 4ghz. I've tried it. Both fans run at max RPM and the box sounds like
>>>> a vacuum cleaner. I guess my point is that if you had fan speed
>>>> control and your heat sink became clogged you would have noticed an
>>>> increase in fan speed before it was so clogged it stopped the fan.
>>>> Depending on how much usage the CPU gets you might get by with no fan
>>>> at all as long as your sink device has sufficient surcase area. A lot
>>>> of Dell computers several years ago had a towering heat sink with no
>>>> dedicated fan, just a 120mm fan in the back.
>>>
>>>
>>> On this MOBO the CPU fan speed seems to be determined entirely by the
>>> combined effect of how good a job I make of cleaning the fan blades
>>> and how much PTFE oil I manage to work into the bearing.
>>>
>>> Previously the fan was noisy because the gunge on the blades was
>>> hitting the gunge on the fins.
>>>
>>> Now I've cleaned it, it isn't any quieter because its spinning a hell
>>> of a lot faster.

>>
>> OK, so you're a dirty slob. Who the **** cares? What's your goddam
>> point?

>
>
> No particular point - but I certainly seem to have drawn a few crazies
> out of the woodwork.


Dildo C. is the 24hour's punching bag. Keeps his chin up while trying to
punch so he's a sure sucker for an uppercut to the chin.



--
Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse
 
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anyone
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      09-09-2010
On Fri, 03 Sep 2010 17:23:43 +0100, ian field wrote:

> Sitting here wondering what all the fuss is about regarding CPU fans.
>
> The fan didn't start because it was clogged with tobacco tar, dust &
> fluff, so out it came for cleaning.
>
> Before putting it back together I decided to run some Slick50 PTFE oil
> into the fan bearing, so the fan is laying flat on the video card so I can
> keep it spinning and work the oil into the bearing.
>
> Obviously as the fan is not at this moment attached to the heatsink I keep
> putting my hand on the fins to check the temperature - its not getting any
> more than luke warm.


Aside from comments by others -- bear in mind, the (perceived) temperature
outside is not the same as temperature in a chip package cavity.

 
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Buffalo
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      09-09-2010


ian field wrote:

> Not so sure I'd trust a MOBO monitor that shows the CPU temp
> fluctuating wildly between 6C & 60C.


If you are using an Intel cpu, it is possible to get that kind of
fluctuation in temps if the cpu is overheating. The chip will go into
survival mode to keep the temp down and then it will go back into normal
mode. The internal temp of the cpu is what governs this behavior, not the
heatsink temp. If a heatsink is not doing its job (mounted flushly and with
the proper amt of heatsink compound on it), it will only feel warm, and not
hot.
It could result from poor heat transfer from the chip to the heatsink due to
the heatsink not being seated properly on the cpu, the heatsink compound is
too old or not applied properly, or the heatsink is clogged and/or its fan
is not working.
Buffalo


 
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ian field
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      09-10-2010

"Buffalo" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:i6bsd3$knj$(E-Mail Removed)-september.org...
>
>
> ian field wrote:
>
>> Not so sure I'd trust a MOBO monitor that shows the CPU temp
>> fluctuating wildly between 6C & 60C.

>
> If you are using an Intel cpu, it is possible to get that kind of
> fluctuation in temps if the cpu is overheating. The chip will go into
> survival mode to keep the temp down and then it will go back into normal
> mode. The internal temp of the cpu is what governs this behavior, not the
> heatsink temp. If a heatsink is not doing its job (mounted flushly and
> with
> the proper amt of heatsink compound on it), it will only feel warm, and
> not
> hot.
> It could result from poor heat transfer from the chip to the heatsink due
> to
> the heatsink not being seated properly on the cpu, the heatsink compound
> is
> too old or not applied properly, or the heatsink is clogged and/or its fan
> is not working.
> Buffalo



You obviously didn't read what I said.

In my first post I stated that I'd cleaned and lubed the fan, checked it was
spinning as fast as it should and cleaned the fins on the heatsink.

I also mentioned somewhere that I use the top quality (expensive) silver
loaded heatsink compound.


 
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