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CPU fan.

 
 
Meat Plow
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      09-03-2010
On Fri, 03 Sep 2010 22:30:54 +0100, ian field wrote:

> "Meat Plow" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news(E-Mail Removed). I.am...
>> On Fri, 03 Sep 2010 21:38:16 +0100, ian field wrote:
>>
>>> "Meat Plow" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>> news(E-Mail Removed). I.am...
>>>> On Fri, 03 Sep 2010 21:18:08 +0100, ian field wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "Meat Plow" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>>>> news(E-Mail Removed). I.am...
>>>>>> On Fri, 03 Sep 2010 19:21:34 +0100, ian field wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Meat Plow" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news(E-Mail Removed). I.am...
>>>>>>>> On Fri, 03 Sep 2010 17:23:43 +0100, ian field wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sitting here wondering what all the fuss is about regarding CPU
>>>>>>>>> fans.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The fan didn't start because it was clogged with tobacco tar,
>>>>>>>>> dust & fluff, so out it came for cleaning.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Before putting it back together I decided to run some Slick50
>>>>>>>>> PTFE oil into the fan bearing, so the fan is laying flat on the
>>>>>>>>> video card so I can keep it spinning and work the oil into the
>>>>>>>>> bearing.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Obviously as the fan is not at this moment attached to the
>>>>>>>>> heatsink I keep putting my hand on the fins to check the
>>>>>>>>> temperature - its not getting any more than luke warm.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Under load it could draw double the wattage.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Maybe I don't work it that hard.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> When I unclipped the fan from the heatsink I found the fins packed
>>>>>>> with a great wad of gunge - the fan hasn't been blowing air
>>>>>>> through the fins for quite some time and there haven't been any of
>>>>>>> the kind of glitches I'd associate with an overheating CPU.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Most decent motherboards provide fan control for noise reduction.
>>>>>> When I encode mpeg video my fan speed rises slightly as the CPU
>>>>>> warms. At idle the CPU fan turns at 2000 rpm, that's less than half
>>>>>> full speed. The 120mm chassis fan has the same control. As the
>>>>>> chassis temp rises the fan speed increases. I can set the
>>>>>> motherboard for high performance say if I wanted to overclock this
>>>>>> quad core to 4ghz. I've tried it. Both fans run at max RPM and the
>>>>>> box sounds like a vacuum cleaner. I guess my point is that if you
>>>>>> had fan speed control and your heat sink became clogged you would
>>>>>> have noticed an increase in fan speed before it was so clogged it
>>>>>> stopped the fan. Depending on how much usage the CPU gets you might
>>>>>> get by with no fan at all as long as your sink device has
>>>>>> sufficient surcase area. A lot of Dell computers several years ago
>>>>>> had a towering heat sink with no dedicated fan, just a 120mm fan in
>>>>>> the back.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On this MOBO the CPU fan speed seems to be determined entirely by
>>>>> the combined effect of how good a job I make of cleaning the fan
>>>>> blades and how much PTFE oil I manage to work into the bearing.
>>>>>
>>>>> Previously the fan was noisy because the gunge on the blades was
>>>>> hitting the gunge on the fins.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now I've cleaned it, it isn't any quieter because its spinning a
>>>>> hell of a lot faster.
>>>>
>>>> Check in the Power section of your BIOS setup if you haven't already
>>>> and see if there is speed control. Usually there is if the fan itself
>>>> is 3 wire and plugs into a 3 prong connector on the mobo.
>>> Its a 3-pin connector - but only 2 wires implemented.

>>
>> Ok well that might present a problem. My Asus M4A8T-E can control a DC
>> fan with two wires. My 120mm chassis fan is such a two wire DC fan but
>> is controlled by the main board. It provides no feedback to the mobo as
>> far as rotation speed however so it shows up as N/A in the power
>> section of my BIOS wheras the CPU fan actually being 4 wire does show
>> the rotational speed. I don't need to know how fast the 120 turns, I
>> can hear it. The feedback was to set an alarm in case your fan stopped.
>> Now most boards do it by temperature limits.

>
>
> I just remembered an experiment years ago with an old Duron less than
> 1GHz, with the heatsink off I held my finger on the CPU to see how quick
> it heated up - it got painfully hot pretty much instantly, I hit the
> power switch PDQ!
>
> That one also suffered badly from dust & tobacco tar compacted in the
> fan, and that one also didn't get particularly hot when the fan was
> obviously too gunged to be doing much.
>
> But then the occasional Youtube clip is probably the hardest I ever make
> any of my PCs work.


Still have an Asus A7V133 with a TBird 1400 sitting on it and 1 gig DDR.
No good for today's multimedia crap, CPU doesn't have the extensions, but
for simple file server it kicks ass. It's got NT4 Server on it right now
and runs like a frickin raped ape. I keep a copy of all my music on it on
a 300 gig Seagate cuda PATA.



--
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Aardvark
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      09-03-2010
On Fri, 03 Sep 2010 22:33:10 +0100, ian field wrote:

> "Aardvark" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:i5roq7$4p7$(E-Mail Removed)-september.org...
>> On Fri, 03 Sep 2010 21:18:08 +0100, ian field wrote:
>>
>>> Now I've cleaned it, it isn't any quieter because its spinning a hell
>>> of a lot faster.

>>
>> Maybe because it can because all the gunge slowing it down has gone?
>> How old would you say the fan is?

>
> Pretty old - I've cleaned & lubed it at least once before about 3 years
> ago.


Might be that it's nearing the end of its useful life, anyway- bearings
more or less worn out, hence the noise.

My advice? Get a new fan.



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"When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle.
Then I realised God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and
prayed for forgiveness." - Emo Phillips
 
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Meat Plow
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      09-03-2010
On Fri, 03 Sep 2010 21:49:24 +0000, Aardvark wrote:

> On Fri, 03 Sep 2010 22:33:10 +0100, ian field wrote:
>
>> "Aardvark" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> news:i5roq7$4p7$(E-Mail Removed)-september.org...
>>> On Fri, 03 Sep 2010 21:18:08 +0100, ian field wrote:
>>>
>>>> Now I've cleaned it, it isn't any quieter because its spinning a hell
>>>> of a lot faster.
>>>
>>> Maybe because it can because all the gunge slowing it down has gone?
>>> How old would you say the fan is?

>>
>> Pretty old - I've cleaned & lubed it at least once before about 3 years
>> ago.

>
> Might be that it's nearing the end of its useful life, anyway- bearings
> more or less worn out, hence the noise.
>
> My advice? Get a new fan.


That type of self lubricated bronze bearing does have a finite life but
usually they wear and cause a shaft wiggle that results in the classic
REPLACE ME noise. I'm sure you know what I mean. Letting the vibration
play out as the bearing heats and produces more impregnated lube usually
quiets it down. One phenomena why some think it's better to leave a PC on
24/7 cuz the fan bearings wont hum when you turn them back on



--
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Aardvark
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      09-03-2010
On Fri, 03 Sep 2010 22:02:03 +0000, Meat Plow wrote:

> That type of self lubricated bronze bearing does have a finite life but
> usually they wear and cause a shaft wiggle that results in the classic
> REPLACE ME noise. I'm sure you know what I mean.


Heh. Oh yeah.

That's the reason I suggested the OP replace it, because I know how
difficult it is sometimes to get rid of components that have served one
well. I got rid of a fan a while ago which I had lovingly tended for the
best part of six years- for quite some time after it seriously asked to
be replaced. I finally gave in and changed both the sink and fan.

I can imagine his reluctance to accept the inevitable and do what needs
to be done. I just thought I'd nudge him in the direction I thought he
might need to go.



--
"When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle.
Then I realised God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and
prayed for forgiveness." - Emo Phillips
 
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Mike Easter
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      09-03-2010
ian field wrote:
> "Mike Easter"


>>>> What is this mobo? What is this CPU?


>> Starting a topic talking about why the CPU fan wasn't necessary without
>> including the CPU in question doesn't tell me that the OP is well
>> informed.


> So faced with *ANY* void in the info, you have a standard fallback of
> assuming the OP is as thick as you?


Some CPUs both old and new, don't (even) require a fan. Doh.

The specific CPU in question makes all the difference in the
conversation. The other relevant considerations are the mobo and the
cooler specifics - heatsink/fan.


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Buffalo
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      09-03-2010


ian field wrote:
> "Mike Easter" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>> ian field wrote:
>>
>>> When I unclipped the fan from the heatsink I found the fins packed
>>> with a great wad of gunge - the fan hasn't been blowing air through
>>> the fins for quite some time and there haven't been any of the kind
>>> of glitches I'd associate with an overheating CPU.

>>
>> Is it possible that you are confusing 'unclipping' a fan from a
>> heatsink with unclipping a heatsink from a CPU?
>>
>> Is it possible that you are confusing fin 'gunge' with heat transfer
>> compound?

>
>
> You seem to be rather confused (apparently not difficult!).
>
> The silver loaded heatsink transfer compound I use isn't cheap and
> isn't easy to mistake for gunge that collects in the fan (although I
> can't speak for your inability to tell the difference).
>
> Also, because I use top of the range (expensive) heatsink compound - I
> always remove only the fan for cleaning and do everything possible to
> avoid disturbing the heatsink.
>
> I'm a little surprised that someone who gives advice on a support
> group could make such an idiotic comment!


If the heatsink is making good flat contact with the cpu and you are using a
quality heatsink compound and the heatsink fins are only lukewarm, then no
problem running the cpu without the fan with the load you are running at
that time.
A free program, called MBM (motherboardmonitor) can monitor the cpu temps,
among other things, if you are so interested.
I've watched some vids that show how quick some cpu's will self-destruct
without a heatsink. Wow, in a second or less.
If you don't believe you need a cpu fan running all the time, I believe you
can buy some that work with the heatsink temp.
Have a fun weekend.
Buffalo


 
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Dan C
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      09-04-2010
On Fri, 03 Sep 2010 21:18:08 +0100, ian field wrote:

> "Meat Plow" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news(E-Mail Removed). I.am...
>> On Fri, 03 Sep 2010 19:21:34 +0100, ian field wrote:
>>
>>> "Meat Plow" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>> news(E-Mail Removed). I.am...
>>>> On Fri, 03 Sep 2010 17:23:43 +0100, ian field wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Sitting here wondering what all the fuss is about regarding CPU
>>>>> fans.
>>>>>
>>>>> The fan didn't start because it was clogged with tobacco tar, dust &
>>>>> fluff, so out it came for cleaning.
>>>>>
>>>>> Before putting it back together I decided to run some Slick50 PTFE
>>>>> oil into the fan bearing, so the fan is laying flat on the video
>>>>> card so I can keep it spinning and work the oil into the bearing.
>>>>>
>>>>> Obviously as the fan is not at this moment attached to the heatsink
>>>>> I keep putting my hand on the fins to check the temperature - its
>>>>> not getting any more than luke warm.
>>>>
>>>> Under load it could draw double the wattage.
>>>
>>> Maybe I don't work it that hard.
>>>
>>> When I unclipped the fan from the heatsink I found the fins packed
>>> with a great wad of gunge - the fan hasn't been blowing air through
>>> the fins for quite some time and there haven't been any of the kind of
>>> glitches I'd associate with an overheating CPU.

>>
>> Most decent motherboards provide fan control for noise reduction. When
>> I encode mpeg video my fan speed rises slightly as the CPU warms. At
>> idle the CPU fan turns at 2000 rpm, that's less than half full speed.
>> The 120mm chassis fan has the same control. As the chassis temp rises
>> the fan speed increases. I can set the motherboard for high performance
>> say if I wanted to overclock this quad core to 4ghz. I've tried it.
>> Both fans run at max RPM and the box sounds like a vacuum cleaner. I
>> guess my point is that if you had fan speed control and your heat sink
>> became clogged you would have noticed an increase in fan speed before
>> it was so clogged it stopped the fan. Depending on how much usage the
>> CPU gets you might get by with no fan at all as long as your sink
>> device has sufficient surcase area. A lot of Dell computers several
>> years ago had a towering heat sink with no dedicated fan, just a 120mm
>> fan in the back.

>
>
> On this MOBO the CPU fan speed seems to be determined entirely by the
> combined effect of how good a job I make of cleaning the fan blades and
> how much PTFE oil I manage to work into the bearing.
>
> Previously the fan was noisy because the gunge on the blades was hitting
> the gunge on the fins.
>
> Now I've cleaned it, it isn't any quieter because its spinning a hell of
> a lot faster.


OK, so you're a dirty slob. Who the **** cares? What's your goddam
point?


--
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"Bother!" said Pooh, as he puked on Christopher Robin.
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Dan C
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      09-04-2010
On Fri, 03 Sep 2010 15:39:29 -0700, Mike Easter wrote:

> Some CPUs both old and new, don't (even) require a fan. Doh.


Would you mind *specifying* what *NEW* (modern, recent) CPU doesn't
require a fan?

Thanks.


--
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Mike Easter
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      09-04-2010
Dan C wrote:
> Mike Easter wrote:
>
>> Some CPUs both old and new, don't (even) require a fan. Doh.

>
> Would you mind *specifying* what *NEW* (modern, recent) CPU doesn't
> require a fan?


AMD Geode, Intel Atom, some Celeron Ms, Via C7, Eden, Nano.

With fancy fanless coolers, much hotter CPUs than those can go fanless.


--
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Dan C
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      09-04-2010
On Fri, 03 Sep 2010 20:47:25 -0700, Mike Easter wrote:

> Dan C wrote:
>> Mike Easter wrote:
>>
>>> Some CPUs both old and new, don't (even) require a fan. Doh.

>>
>> Would you mind *specifying* what *NEW* (modern, recent) CPU doesn't
>> require a fan?

>
> AMD Geode, Intel Atom, some Celeron Ms, Via C7, Eden, Nano.


Ok, well yeah. I wasn't thinking about such low-end stuff. None of
those are realistically acceptable for a modern desktop.

> With fancy fanless coolers, much hotter CPUs than those can go fanless.


I'm sure. The fanless coolers start to become more expensive than the
CPU at that point, though.


--
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