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Re: Pulling Strings With The 70-200 VR2!!

 
 
tony cooper
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      08-05-2010
On Sun, 01 Aug 2010 18:39:29 -0500, Larry Thong
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>I know, I know, this was a job for the good old 200/2, but I was a bit
>lazy to carry it today so I went on the cheap with the trusty old 70-200
>VR2. It worked!
>
><http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm261/Ritaberk/Strings.jpg>


Here's a shot of a violinist from earlier this month. The Orlando
Symphony Orchestra provided some orchestra members for an event for
kids at a local park. The idea was to let the kids try playing
various musical instruments.

http://tonycooper.smugmug.com/Other/...9_RtuZN-XL.jpg

The image has been faked. There was some really ugly background in
the original, so I did some masking and dropped in a cleaner
background with a shot taken the same day.


--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
 
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Peter
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      08-05-2010
"tony cooper" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> On Sun, 01 Aug 2010 18:39:29 -0500, Larry Thong
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>I know, I know, this was a job for the good old 200/2, but I was a bit
>>lazy to carry it today so I went on the cheap with the trusty old 70-200
>>VR2. It worked!
>>
>><http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm261/Ritaberk/Strings.jpg>

>
> Here's a shot of a violinist from earlier this month. The Orlando
> Symphony Orchestra provided some orchestra members for an event for
> kids at a local park. The idea was to let the kids try playing
> various musical instruments.
>
> http://tonycooper.smugmug.com/Other/...9_RtuZN-XL.jpg
>
> The image has been faked. There was some really ugly background in
> the original, so I did some masking and dropped in a cleaner
> background with a shot taken the same day.
>



You seem to have a great eye for people. You really brought out her
expression of nervous determination. The adult helping hand takes you
capture out of the ordinary.
I will not nitpick your background.
--
Peter

 
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tony cooper
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      08-05-2010
On Thu, 5 Aug 2010 08:50:02 -0400, "Peter"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>"tony cooper" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>news:(E-Mail Removed).. .
>> On Sun, 01 Aug 2010 18:39:29 -0500, Larry Thong
>> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>
>>>I know, I know, this was a job for the good old 200/2, but I was a bit
>>>lazy to carry it today so I went on the cheap with the trusty old 70-200
>>>VR2. It worked!
>>>
>>><http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm261/Ritaberk/Strings.jpg>

>>
>> Here's a shot of a violinist from earlier this month. The Orlando
>> Symphony Orchestra provided some orchestra members for an event for
>> kids at a local park. The idea was to let the kids try playing
>> various musical instruments.
>>
>> http://tonycooper.smugmug.com/Other/...9_RtuZN-XL.jpg
>>
>> The image has been faked. There was some really ugly background in
>> the original, so I did some masking and dropped in a cleaner
>> background with a shot taken the same day.
>>

>
>
>You seem to have a great eye for people. You really brought out her
>expression of nervous determination. The adult helping hand takes you
>capture out of the ordinary.
> I will not nitpick your background.


Here's another one from that day. This one is not Photoshopped. I
don't like too many people in the background, but it was a large event
and it was impossible to shoot without background.

Love the expression on this future Ringo Starr or Keith Moon.

http://tonycooper.smugmug.com/Other/...4_vLZHS-XL.jpg
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
 
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Peter
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      08-05-2010
"tony cooper" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> On Thu, 5 Aug 2010 08:50:02 -0400, "Peter"
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>"tony cooper" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>news:(E-Mail Removed). ..
>>> On Sun, 01 Aug 2010 18:39:29 -0500, Larry Thong
>>> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>>
>>>>I know, I know, this was a job for the good old 200/2, but I was a bit
>>>>lazy to carry it today so I went on the cheap with the trusty old 70-200
>>>>VR2. It worked!
>>>>
>>>><http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm261/Ritaberk/Strings.jpg>
>>>
>>> Here's a shot of a violinist from earlier this month. The Orlando
>>> Symphony Orchestra provided some orchestra members for an event for
>>> kids at a local park. The idea was to let the kids try playing
>>> various musical instruments.
>>>
>>> http://tonycooper.smugmug.com/Other/...9_RtuZN-XL.jpg
>>>
>>> The image has been faked. There was some really ugly background in
>>> the original, so I did some masking and dropped in a cleaner
>>> background with a shot taken the same day.
>>>

>>
>>
>>You seem to have a great eye for people. You really brought out her
>>expression of nervous determination. The adult helping hand takes you
>>capture out of the ordinary.
>> I will not nitpick your background.

>
> Here's another one from that day. This one is not Photoshopped. I
> don't like too many people in the background, but it was a large event
> and it was impossible to shoot without background.
>
> Love the expression on this future Ringo Starr or Keith Moon.
>
> http://tonycooper.smugmug.com/Other/...4_vLZHS-XL.jpg



Love it. His expression certainly shows his enjoyment of the moment.
I would have cropped vertically just above his dad's elbow and horizontally
leaving about 1/2 his dad's left leg in the shot. This would provide some
primary framing for his face. I would also tone down the background colors
and put in a slight Gaussian blur.


--
Peter

 
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tony cooper
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      08-05-2010
On Thu, 5 Aug 2010 09:43:49 -0400, "Peter"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>>
>> Love the expression on this future Ringo Starr or Keith Moon.
>>
>> http://tonycooper.smugmug.com/Other/...4_vLZHS-XL.jpg

>
>
>Love it. His expression certainly shows his enjoyment of the moment.
>I would have cropped vertically just above his dad's elbow and horizontally
>leaving about 1/2 his dad's left leg in the shot. This would provide some
>primary framing for his face. I would also tone down the background colors
>and put in a slight Gaussian blur.


The "dad" is the symphony orchestra drummer just as the hand in the
violinist image is the hand of a symphony orchestra violinist. Some
real pros giving kids a chance to play instruments.

I could mess around in Channels and tone down the grass, but I didn't
do anything to this shot except convert it from RAW.

Shots like this either have to be presented as-shot or extensively
worked on. The boy has very fair skin and the man has very dark skin.
To get the right exposure of both faces can be tricky. What I would
do if I wanted this better would be to make two layers as Smart
Objects and then lighten-up the man's face and mask on the other
layer.



--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
 
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tony cooper
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      08-05-2010
On Thu, 5 Aug 2010 09:43:49 -0400, "Peter"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Love it. His expression certainly shows his enjoyment of the moment.
>I would have cropped vertically just above his dad's elbow and horizontally
>leaving about 1/2 his dad's left leg in the shot. This would provide some
>primary framing for his face.


Interesting take. There are two ways to present this photo: cropped
as you suggest to feature the child's expression and activity, or
uncropped to show that the child is being tutored by an adult.

I chose the latter because I was at the scene and understand what was
going on. It was the tutoring by an adult of a child that was what I
was capturing.

However, if you weren't on the scene and didn't know this, the child's
face and apparent enjoyment is the interesting aspect and your crop
makes for a more interesting photo.

This kinda points out that the photographer's thought of what he is
capturing can over-ride his instincts on what makes a good finished
photograph. The photographer should really view the image as an
outsider to envision the best portrayal.


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Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
 
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Peter
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      08-05-2010
"tony cooper" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> On Thu, 5 Aug 2010 09:43:49 -0400, "Peter"
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>Love it. His expression certainly shows his enjoyment of the moment.
>>I would have cropped vertically just above his dad's elbow and
>>horizontally
>>leaving about 1/2 his dad's left leg in the shot. This would provide some
>>primary framing for his face.

>
> Interesting take. There are two ways to present this photo: cropped
> as you suggest to feature the child's expression and activity, or
> uncropped to show that the child is being tutored by an adult.
>
> I chose the latter because I was at the scene and understand what was
> going on. It was the tutoring by an adult of a child that was what I
> was capturing.
>
> However, if you weren't on the scene and didn't know this, the child's
> face and apparent enjoyment is the interesting aspect and your crop
> makes for a more interesting photo.
>
> This kinda points out that the photographer's thought of what he is
> capturing can over-ride his instincts on what makes a good finished
> photograph. The photographer should really view the image as an
> outsider to envision the best portrayal.
>



Proving once again that various photographers can have different
interpretations of a similar image. Yet neither is right and neither is
wrong.

BTW I hope you are saving one in this series for the "sounds of the season"
SI.

--
Peter

 
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Peter
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      08-05-2010
"Doug McDonald" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:i3eoqs$241$(E-Mail Removed)...

>> Here's another one from that day. This one is not Photoshopped.

>
> This is a good candidate for Photoshopping. Even as "journalism".
> You could remove all the people except the main 4 with no quibble.
> This especially includes the person in the orange shirt which is
> all that is showing. And of course the teensy ones in the background.
>


I think that type of Photoshopping would be unethical as journalism. Not so,
if presented as art.
Journalism should represent unaltered events. the people there are part of
the event. I would not make the same claim if the image was presented as a
pictorial.


--
Peter

 
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tony cooper
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      08-05-2010
On Thu, 5 Aug 2010 15:12:33 -0400, "Peter"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>"Doug McDonald" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>news:i3eoqs$241$(E-Mail Removed)...
>
>>> Here's another one from that day. This one is not Photoshopped.

>>
>> This is a good candidate for Photoshopping. Even as "journalism".
>> You could remove all the people except the main 4 with no quibble.
>> This especially includes the person in the orange shirt which is
>> all that is showing. And of course the teensy ones in the background.
>>

>
>I think that type of Photoshopping would be unethical as journalism. Not so,
>if presented as art.
>Journalism should represent unaltered events. the people there are part of
>the event. I would not make the same claim if the image was presented as a
>pictorial.


I make a distinction - a significant distinction - between "Street"
and "PJ" (Photo Journalism).

Street photography captures life as we see it...a man lighting a
cigarette, people entering and leaving a subway entrance, a
shopkeeper, a woman holding a baby. In street, we look for
interesting scenes that usually involve people, but we capture them in
whatever environment we find them. PJ captures newsworthy
scenes...firemen fighting a fire, a potential suicide on ledge, and -
of course - war scenes.

In street, enthusiasts really don't think that distractions detract
from the photo. A trash can in the photo? Leave it if the trash can
is the natural environment. We don't change backgrounds or
significantly alter the image, but some very minor editing is
acceptable. Usually, though, editing is limited to the processing
steps. I like high contrast black and white, so my photos might have
more contrast than the actual scene.

In PJ, it is unethical to edit in any way that changes what is
pictured. Even cropping is frowned on if the cropping takes out
something that might change the viewer's perception of what is
portrayed.

What you call "pictorial" (not a term known to me) is a completely
different type of photography. There, we look for interesting scenes
and we are free to make some minor alterations like taking out that
trash can.

I'm more in favor of taking out than I am in adding in. I have no
problem with taking out a distraction, but I can't go along with
adding in something to make it more interesting. If you have a photo
of a bristling dog in an attack position, you can take out something
in the background but you can't add in a cat as the dog's source of
irritation.




--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
 
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Peter
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      08-05-2010
"tony cooper" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> On Thu, 5 Aug 2010 15:12:33 -0400, "Peter"
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>


>>
>>I think that type of Photoshopping would be unethical as journalism. Not
>>so,
>>if presented as art.
>>Journalism should represent unaltered events. the people there are part of
>>the event. I would not make the same claim if the image was presented as a
>>pictorial.

>
> I make a distinction - a significant distinction - between "Street"
> and "PJ" (Photo Journalism).
>
> Street photography captures life as we see it...a man lighting a
> cigarette, people entering and leaving a subway entrance, a
> shopkeeper, a woman holding a baby. In street, we look for
> interesting scenes that usually involve people, but we capture them in
> whatever environment we find them. PJ captures newsworthy
> scenes...firemen fighting a fire, a potential suicide on ledge, and -
> of course - war scenes.
>
> In street, enthusiasts really don't think that distractions detract
> from the photo. A trash can in the photo? Leave it if the trash can
> is the natural environment. We don't change backgrounds or
> significantly alter the image, but some very minor editing is
> acceptable. Usually, though, editing is limited to the processing
> steps. I like high contrast black and white, so my photos might have
> more contrast than the actual scene.
>
> In PJ, it is unethical to edit in any way that changes what is
> pictured. Even cropping is frowned on if the cropping takes out
> something that might change the viewer's perception of what is
> portrayed.
>
> What you call "pictorial" (not a term known to me) is a completely
> different type of photography. There, we look for interesting scenes
> and we are free to make some minor alterations like taking out that
> trash can.
>
> I'm more in favor of taking out than I am in adding in. I have no
> problem with taking out a distraction, but I can't go along with
> adding in something to make it more interesting. If you have a photo
> of a bristling dog in an attack position, you can take out something
> in the background but you can't add in a cat as the dog's source of
> irritation.



OK
It's good to have definitions so we understand. Perhaps because I don't do a
lot of street photography, I really don't distinguish between PJ and street.
You are certainly correct in the context of your distinction about no
cropping in PJ.

I define pictorial as any image that has been seriously manipulated. I have
no problem taking out of putting in. I will frequently change the sky, add
birds, etc. I will also do full or partial partial color reversals. I do not
represent any image as an accurate portrayal of the scene, unless it is. In
our club I had presented an image of a lighthouse. the judge commented that
it would be a stronger image if reversed. Under our local rules it would be
permitted.

Since this is a hobby, I think it's OK to do whatever degree of manipulation
makes you comfortable.


--
Peter

 
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