«

"lrhorer" <> wrote in message
news: ...
>
> This isn't urgent, because the code works, but it is slightly
> unpleasant looking, to me, anyway. I have a page with two radio
> buttons side-by-side. One links to one page and the second to another.
> By my understanding, a single form can only link to a specific page, so
> I created two different forms for the two buttons, each linking to a
> different page, and put them in the same table. Evidently, this is
> causing them to show up with one slightly higher than the other. Now I
> could eliminate the problem by putting them in the same form, linking
> to an intermediate cgi script, and then immediately forwarding to one
> page or the other based upon which button was clicked. Is there a
> cleaner, simpler way, though?
>
> <table><tr bgcolor="#00ff00">
> <td Width=100 align="center">Room<td Width=40 align="center">Hour<td
> Width=40 align="center">Min<td Width=40>Temp
> <tr><FORM ACTION="/cgi-bin/commit.cgi">
>
> [...Whole bunch of stuff deleted]
>
> </table>
> <table>
> <tr><td Width=110 align="center"><input type="submit" name="Submit"
> value="Submit">
> <input type="hidden" NAME="Action"
> value="/usr/share/thermostat/weekday">
> <input type="hidden" NAME="Therms" value="8">
>
> </form><form ACTION="/cgi-bin/pupdate.cgi">
> <td Width=110 align="center"><input type="submit" name="Abort"
> value="Abort">
> <input type="hidden" NAME="Therms" value="8">
> <input type="hidden" NAME="Testing" value="Program">
> </form></table>
> </body>
>
>


Hi,

You just need to make sure that <form> and </form> are not within elements
that get displayed. So all I did was move the first <form> so it was between
<table> and <tr> (i.e. wouldn't be displayed), added a closing </td></tr> to
your opening <td> so the </form><form> was in between </td> and <td> and
again added the missing </td></tr> so I could move the last closing </form>
in between </tr> and </table>.

Like so...


<table>
<FORM ACTION="/cgi-bin/commit.cgi">
<tr bgcolor="#00ff00">
<td Width=100 align="center">Room<td Width=40 align="center">Hour</td>
<td Width=40 align="center">Min<td Width=40>Temp</td>
<tr>
<td>[...Whole bunch of stuff deleted]</td>
</tr>
</table>

<table>
<tr>
<td Width=110 align="center">
<input type="submit" name="Submit" value="Submit">
<input type="hidden" NAME="Action" value="/usr/share/thermostat/weekday">
<input type="hidden" NAME="Therms" value="8">
</td>
</form>
<form ACTION="/cgi-bin/pupdate.cgi">
<td Width=110 align="center">
<input type="submit" name="Abort" value="Abort">
<input type="hidden" NAME="Therms" value="8">
<input type="hidden" NAME="Testing" value="Program">
</td>
</tr>
</form>
</table>



..... so

Point 1: Always close your opening tags.
Point 2: Place <form> tags where text doesn't get displayed.


Hope this helps


Andy

"Andy" <> wrote in message
news:31v5o.9818$zT3.7053@hurricane...

> Hi,
>
> You just need to make sure that <form> and </form> are not within elements
> that get displayed. So all I did was move the first <form> so it was
> between <table> and <tr> (i.e. wouldn't be displayed), added a closing
> </td></tr> to your opening <td> so the </form><form> was in between </td>
> and <td> and again added the missing </td></tr> so I could move the last
> closing </form> in between </tr> and </table>.

All of which is invalid HTML and leaves the author wide open to the whims of
the browsers error correction. Read the rest of the thread. In this case the
OP's problem is *directly* caused by the browser error correcting the OP's
invalid HTML.

"rf" <> wrote in message
news:3av5o.2296$ ond.com...
> "Andy" <> wrote in message
> news:31v5o.9818$zT3.7053@hurricane...
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> You just need to make sure that <form> and </form> are not within
>> elements that get displayed. So all I did was move the first <form> so it
>> was between <table> and <tr> (i.e. wouldn't be displayed), added a
>> closing </td></tr> to your opening <td> so the </form><form> was in
>> between </td> and <td> and again added the missing </td></tr> so I could
>> move the last closing </form> in between </tr> and </table>.
>
> All of which is invalid HTML and leaves the author wide open to the whims
> of the browsers error correction. Read the rest of the thread. In this
> case the OP's problem is *directly* caused by the browser error correcting
> the OP's invalid HTML.
>
>
>
>
>

Ok, no probs. Just style the form element to have a zero bottom margin then
you can put each <form> where you like...


<html>
<body>

<style>
form { margin-bottom: 0; }
</style>

<table>
<tr bgcolor="#00ff00">
<td Width=100 align="center">Room<td Width=40 align="center">Hour</td>
<td Width=40 align="center">Min<td Width=40>Temp</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>[...Whole bunch of stuff deleted]</td>
</tr>
</table>

<table>
<tr>
<td Width=110 align="center">
<FORM ACTION="/cgi-bin/commit.cgi">
<input type="submit" name="Submit" value="Submit">
<input type="hidden" NAME="Action" value="/usr/share/thermostat/weekday">
<input type="hidden" NAME="Therms" value="8">
</form>
</td>
<td Width=110 align="center">
<form ACTION="/cgi-bin/pupdate.cgi">
<input type="submit" name="Abort" value="Abort">
<input type="hidden" NAME="Therms" value="8">
<input type="hidden" NAME="Testing" value="Program">
</form>
</td>
</tr>
</table>


</body>
</html>


Hope this helps

Andy

"Sherm Pendley" <> wrote in message
news:...
> "Andy" <> writes:
>
>> "rf" <> wrote in message
>> news:3av5o.2296$ ond.com...
>>> "Andy" <> wrote in message
>>> news:31v5o.9818$zT3.7053@hurricane...
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> You just need to make sure that <form> and </form> are not within
>>>> elements that get displayed. So all I did was move the first <form>
>>>> so it was between <table> and <tr> (i.e. wouldn't be displayed),
>>>> added a closing </td></tr> to your opening <td> so the
>>>> </form><form> was in between </td> and <td> and again added the
>>>> missing </td></tr> so I could move the last closing </form> in
>>>> between </tr> and </table>.
>>>
>>> All of which is invalid HTML and leaves the author wide open to the
>>> whims of the browsers error correction. Read the rest of the
>>> thread. In this case the OP's problem is *directly* caused by the
>>> browser error correcting the OP's invalid HTML.
>>
>> Ok, no probs. Just style the form element to have a zero bottom margin
>> then you can put each <form> where you like.
>
> No you can't - your advice will still result in invalid HTML.
>
>> Hope this helps
>
> It doesn't. Bad advice is worse than none, and your advice is beyond
> merely bad. The most helpful thing you could do right now is to stop
> trying to give advice until you actually learn HTML yourself.
>
> sherm--
>
> --
> Sherm Pendley <www.shermpendley.com>
> <www.camelbones.org>
> Cocoa Developer
>


All I said was to add...

form { margin-bottom: 0; }

.... to the OPs stylesheet, which is perfectly valid html.

Anyhoo, you can't speak, both of your urls result in...

Site Temporarily Unavailable
We apologize for the inconvenience. Please contact the webmaster/ tech
support immediately to have them rectify this.
error id: "bad_httpd_conf"


Stop trolling

Andy

"Sherm Pendley" <> wrote in message
news:...
> "Andy" <> writes:
>
>> "Sherm Pendley" <> wrote in message
>> news:...
>>> "Andy" <> writes:
>>>
>>>> "rf" <> wrote in message
>>>> news:3av5o.2296$ ond.com...
>>>>> "Andy" <> wrote in message
>>>>> news:31v5o.9818$zT3.7053@hurricane...
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You just need to make sure that <form> and </form> are not within
>>>>>> elements that get displayed. So all I did was move the first <form>
>>>>>> so it was between <table> and <tr> (i.e. wouldn't be displayed),
>>>>>> added a closing </td></tr> to your opening <td> so the
>>>>>> </form><form> was in between </td> and <td> and again added the
>>>>>> missing </td></tr> so I could move the last closing </form> in
>>>>>> between </tr> and </table>.
>>>>>
>>>>> All of which is invalid HTML and leaves the author wide open to the
>>>>> whims of the browsers error correction. Read the rest of the
>>>>> thread. In this case the OP's problem is *directly* caused by the
>>>>> browser error correcting the OP's invalid HTML.
>>>>
>>>> Ok, no probs. Just style the form element to have a zero bottom margin
>>>> then you can put each <form> where you like.
>>>
>>> No you can't - your advice will still result in invalid HTML.
>>>
>>>> Hope this helps
>>>
>>> It doesn't. Bad advice is worse than none, and your advice is beyond
>>> merely bad. The most helpful thing you could do right now is to stop
>>> trying to give advice until you actually learn HTML yourself.
>>
>> All I said was to add...
>>
>> form { margin-bottom: 0; }
>>
>> ... to the OPs stylesheet, which is perfectly valid html.
>
> No amount of stylesheet tweaks will fix the invalid HTML that would
> result from your advice.
>
> Forms, to be valid, must either contain the entire table, as in:
>
> <form><table>...</table></form>
>
> Or, if they're within the table, must be contained within a td, as in:
>
> <table><tr><td><form>...</form></td></tr></table>
>
> Those are the rules of HTML, as clearly documented in the standards
> docs found at <http://w3.org>.
>
>> Anyhoo, you can't speak, both of your urls result in...
>>
>> Site Temporarily Unavailable
>
> Which says nothing one way or the other about my ability to write
> valid HTML. Apparently basic logic is as foreign to you as basic HTML
> concepts.
>
>> Stop trolling
>
> Calling me names won't make your advice correct either. Grow up.
>
> sherm--
>
> --
> Sherm Pendley <www.shermpendley.com>
> <www.camelbones.org>
> Cocoa Developer
>


If you look back at my last suggestion, you'll see that each <form> blah
blah </form> is within a containing <td>....

Here's a cut&paste with the form bits spaced out a bit for clarity...


<html>
<body>

<style>
form { margin-bottom: 0; }
</style>

<table>
<tr bgcolor="#00ff00">
<td Width=100 align="center">Room<td Width=40 align="center">Hour</td>
<td Width=40 align="center">Min<td Width=40>Temp</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>[...Whole bunch of stuff deleted]</td>
</tr>
</table>

<table>
<tr>




<td Width=110 align="center">
<FORM ACTION="/cgi-bin/commit.cgi">
<input type="submit" name="Submit" value="Submit">
<input type="hidden" NAME="Action" value="/usr/share/thermostat/weekday">
<input type="hidden" NAME="Therms" value="8">
</form>
</td>



<td Width=110 align="center">
<form ACTION="/cgi-bin/pupdate.cgi">
<input type="submit" name="Abort" value="Abort">
<input type="hidden" NAME="Therms" value="8">
<input type="hidden" NAME="Testing" value="Program">
</form>
</td>




</tr>
</table>


</body>
</html>



Love & Kisses


Andy

"Sherm Pendley" <> wrote in message
news:...
> "Andy" <> writes:
>
>> If you look back at my last suggestion, you'll see that each <form>
>> blah blah </form> is within a containing <td>....
>
> Your suggestion is in the archives, so now the whole world can see that
> you're not just a fool, but a liar as well:
> <http://groups.google.com/group/alt.html/tree/browse_frm/thread/a23726057b69fd5b/4f1ee05f6b98a01e?rnum=21&_done=%2Fgroup%2Falt.html %2Fbrowse_frm%2Fthread%2Fa23726057b69fd5b%3F#doc_c 2c065deae3fb097>
>
>> Here's a cut&paste
>
> No, *here* is a cut and paste, straight from the Google archives cited
> above, proving that you lie:
>
> <table>
> <FORM ACTION="/cgi-bin/commit.cgi">
> <tr bgcolor="#00ff00">
> <td Width=100 align="center">Room<td Width=40 align="center">Hour</td>
> <td Width=40 align="center">Min<td Width=40>Temp</td>
> <tr>
> <td>[...Whole bunch of stuff deleted]</td>
> </tr>
> </table>
>
> <table>
> <tr>
> <td Width=110 align="center">
> <input type="submit" name="Submit" value="Submit">
> <input type="hidden" NAME="Action" value="/usr/share/thermostat/weekday">
> <input type="hidden" NAME="Therms" value="8">
> </td>
> </form>
>
> Not only is the form *not* within a containing <td>, closing </form> tag
> isn't even within the same table! Your suggested markup is complete
> gibberish.
>
> What on earth makes you think you can get away with lying about your
> past statements, when what you *really* wrote is archived for the whole
> world to see?
>
> sherm--
>
> --
> Sherm Pendley <www.shermpendley.com>


Hi Sherm,

You're looking at my first suggestion, I was referring to my last
suggestion.

Search for my post which was a reply to a post by rf. The datestamp is
02/08/2010 09:27, it is 3KB in size and listed as 1 line.

Here is a cut&paste of the entire message as it appears in Windows Live Mail
newsreader...


"rf" <> wrote in message
news:3av5o.2296$ ond.com...
> "Andy" <> wrote in message
> news:31v5o.9818$zT3.7053@hurricane...
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> You just need to make sure that <form> and </form> are not within
>> elements that get displayed. So all I did was move the first <form> so it
>> was between <table> and <tr> (i.e. wouldn't be displayed), added a
>> closing </td></tr> to your opening <td> so the </form><form> was in
>> between </td> and <td> and again added the missing </td></tr> so I could
>> move the last closing </form> in between </tr> and </table>.
>
> All of which is invalid HTML and leaves the author wide open to the whims
> of the browsers error correction. Read the rest of the thread. In this
> case the OP's problem is *directly* caused by the browser error correcting
> the OP's invalid HTML.
>
>
>
>
>

Ok, no probs. Just style the form element to have a zero bottom margin then
you can put each <form> where you like...


<html>
<body>

<style>
form { margin-bottom: 0; }
</style>

<table>
<tr bgcolor="#00ff00">
<td Width=100 align="center">Room<td Width=40 align="center">Hour</td>
<td Width=40 align="center">Min<td Width=40>Temp</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>[...Whole bunch of stuff deleted]</td>
</tr>
</table>

<table>
<tr>
<td Width=110 align="center">
<FORM ACTION="/cgi-bin/commit.cgi">
<input type="submit" name="Submit" value="Submit">
<input type="hidden" NAME="Action" value="/usr/share/thermostat/weekday">
<input type="hidden" NAME="Therms" value="8">
</form>
</td>
<td Width=110 align="center">
<form ACTION="/cgi-bin/pupdate.cgi">
<input type="submit" name="Abort" value="Abort">
<input type="hidden" NAME="Therms" value="8">
<input type="hidden" NAME="Testing" value="Program">
</form>
</td>
</tr>
</table>


</body>
</html>


Hope this helps

Andy





.... I don't lie.

Andy

"Sherm Pendley" <> wrote in message
news:...
> "Andy" <> writes:
>
>> You're looking at my first suggestion, I was referring to my last
>> suggestion.
>
> ... a reference which had SFA to do with my criticism of your first
> one, other than being a tacit admission that I was right, that the
> first was utter gibberish.
>
>> ... I don't lie.
>
> Lie, spin, deflect - Call it whatever helps you sleep better.
>
> sherm--
>
> --
> Sherm Pendley <www.shermpendley.com>
> <www.camelbones.org>
> Cocoa Developer
>


Hi Sherm,

I think you may be having a problem with Google Groups being out of sync
with newsreaders or not fully listing all replies.

If you recall the OP's original post, he was just looking for a fix for the
Submit and Abort buttons not lining up. Because the OP stated that it wasn't
particularly urgent, his code worked and he/she just wanted a simple fix I
suggested that he/she moves the <form> and </form> tags to somewhere in the
code that wouldn't render text (e.g. in between <table> and <tr>), which
solved the problem.

Based on how the OP phrased his/her request I didn't think that validation
would be an issue, plus, to be perfectly honest, his/her code had loads of
errors in it anyway so it was pretty clear that validation wasn't exactly
top of the list of requirements.

I should have known better!

Sure enough (you guys just love that validator) the first reply to my
suggestion from rf (10 mins later) pointed out that my quick fix would
produce validation errors.

Okay I thought, I do remember this issue cropping up before and there being
a correct way to do it, so I Googled it and found this solution...

form { margin-bottom: 0; }

.... which as you know removes the unwanted whitespace below form elements.

I then showed the OP's original code with the <form> </form> elements within
a containing <td>



Now this is where things got sticky...


You replied to my updated suggestion post (the one with the style solution),
but somehow you quoted part of (as in cut&paste) my original/first post (the
one with the move the <form> tags solution) and not the actual post you were
replying to.

I didn't realise that you had misquoted me (i.e. didn't spot that you had
replied reference my first post) and couldn't understand why you thought
that adding a valid style declaration would cause validation errors.

My mistake, for which I apologise, is that at this point I thought you were
just spoiling for an argument and wrongly told you to "Stop trolling".

Again you replied saying that the <form> elements must either contain the
whole <table> ... </table> or be within <td> ... </td>.

I thought to myself "What is this guy on about? my last suggestion clearly
has the <form> tags inside a single <td>", so I replied to you stating this
and included a cut&paste of my post to prove it.

Now clearly at this point you still couldn't see/find my updated suggestion
and professed to the whole World that I was a liar and that my cut&paste of
my updated suggestion was false/made up. To back up your claim you
cut&pasted a part of my original post and provided this link...

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.h...c065deae3fb097

.... which you said would prove that I was lying.

I followed your link, and interestingly although it does list the posts in
this topic, it cuts off right after my first post. I'm not going to suggest
that you manipulated the url to only show what you wanted, so again I'll
chalk this up to a glitch.

Here's a url to the entire topic on Google Groups...

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.h...726057b69fd5b#

.... which clearly shows my updated suggestion at 09:27am.


I did reply to you to let you know that you were quoting my first post and
not my second and included the time/size etc to help you find it. I also
cut&pasted the entire message (including the headers and previous post) to
prove this to you but again you insisted that I was lying, spinning and
deflecting so that I could sleep at night.

I'm not after an apology as I'm guessing you're the sort of person that will
never admit when you have made a mistake, but I did want everyone else to
know that I do not lie... what you think of me is not important.


Andy

"Sherm Pendley" <> wrote in message
news:...
> "Andy" <> writes:
>
>> If you recall the OP's original post, he was just looking for a fix
>> for the Submit and Abort buttons not lining up. Because the OP stated
>> that it wasn't particularly urgent, his code worked and he/she just
>> wanted a simple fix I suggested that he/she moves the <form> and
>> </form> tags to somewhere in the code that wouldn't render text
>> (e.g. in between <table> and <tr>), which solved the problem.
>
> Nonsense, all it does is create a different problem.



Wrong, the other problems where always there. All I did was address the OP's
alignment issue, I never stated or intended to fix any other problems.


>
>> Based on how the OP phrased his/her request I didn't think that
>> validation would be an issue, plus, to be perfectly honest, his/her
>> code had loads of errors in it anyway so it was pretty clear that
>> validation wasn't exactly top of the list of requirements.
>>
>> I should have known better!
>
> Yes, you should have. And now that you've admitted that you should
> have, my job here is done.
>


You're just being prissy



>> Now this is where things got sticky...
>


You've completely cut out the quotes that prove that you where wrong here



> More nonsense. I knew exactly what I was replying to, where I was
> replying to it, and why. If I had meant to reply to some other sub-
> thread, I would have done so *in that subthread.* If having separate
> subthreads confuses you, that isn't my fault. Learn to use your news
> reader.
>


I've been using newsreaders for over 30 years, I know exactly how they work
I can see when you reply to my post and then edit out all of the quotes and
then paste in parts of my previous post.



>> Now clearly at this point you still couldn't see/find my updated
>> suggestion
>
> I'm not replying to your "updated" suggestion. That's in another sub-
> thread. Your inability to understand how threading works is *your*
> problem, not mine.



Really? Because everyone that uses a real newsreader (not Google Groups,
that's for noobs) can see that our conversation is one complete sub-thread
from my first to last post.

>
>> I followed your link, and interestingly although it does list the
>> posts in this topic, it cuts off right after my first post.
>
> Google's search interface only shows a handful of posts at one time.
> Try clicking the "Newer" link before you make an even bigger fool of
> yourself.
>



Really? Because when I tested your dodgy link, you know, the one that
conveniently shows my first post but none thereafter in IE, FF and Chrome on
two separate PCs plus my Nexus One and PS3 there was no "newer" "older"
links. Of course, the link I provided does show all posts and does have
those links.



>> I'm not
>> going to suggest that you manipulated the url to only show what you
>> wanted, so again I'll chalk this up to a glitch.
>
> I'm chalking it up to a 1d10t error on your end.
>


You would, truth evasion is your specialty.


>> I did reply to you to let you know that you were quoting my first post
>> and not my second
>
> Which is exactly what I intended to do, because I was replying in the
> subthread following your first post, not your second.
>
> You're not very bright, are you?
>


You really are a rude little man


>> I'm not after an apology as I'm guessing you're the sort of person
>> that will never admit when you have made a mistake
>
> When I *have* made a mistake, I freely admit it. I've done so on any
> number of occasions here in this group. Your failure to understand how
> threading works is not a mistake on my part.
>
>> but I did want
>> everyone else to know that I do not lie
>
> Nearly every statement you've made in this thread has been an attempt
> to deflect from the fact that I was right, and the advice *I was actually
> commenting on* was gibberish. Like I said before - lie, spin, deflect,
> call it what you will, it's all dishonesty of one kind or another.
>



There you go again, calling me a liar when everyone can see that I'm not



>> ... what you think of me is not important.
>
> Right, you spent all that time writing such a long detailed reply because
> you don't care. You really think I believe that?
>



Like I said (but you failed to grasp), I don't care what YOU think, but I do
care what everyone else thinks, which is why I spent a little bit of time
presenting my evidence which you just cut out of any reply and refuse to
acknowledge.





> sherm--
>
> --
> Sherm Pendley <www.shermpendley.com>
> <www.camelbones.org>
> Cocoa Developer




Isn't it funny how each person's perception of reality is different?

From my point of view you accused me of lying when I stated that I had
posted a solution where the <form>...</form> was inside a <td>.

I proved to you and everyone else that you were incorrect by providing a
link to the thread in Google Groups...

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.h...3726057b69fd5b

(the post in question was posted 2nd August at 9:27am)

And yet you still can't see it.


I won't be replying to your posts anymore Sherm, you're just not worth my
time.

Andy

In article <>,
Sherm Pendley <> wrote:

> Neredbojias <> writes:
>
> > Aww. I was hoping that the Sherm 'N Andy Show would go into
> > syndication...
>
> Sorry to disappoint! Maybe I'm getting older, but my patience for the
> antics of idiots, and my willingness to try to educate them, are both
> growing shorter.

You have behaved disgracefully sherm--, Andy did not deserve your
nasty personal abuse. And *you* were openly and flagrantly
dishonest in at least one if not more points and making like that
archetypal 1d10t you repeatedly mentioned.

There is an inner 1d10t in many of you earthlings. From now on,
please be more humble. Remember, the last shall be first and the
first shall be last when that Ultimate Judgement Time comes.

Now, can we all please kneel and pray...

--
dorayme

In article <>,
Sherm Pendley <> wrote:

> dorayme <> writes:
>
> > In article <>,
> > Sherm Pendley <> wrote:
> >
> >> Neredbojias <> writes:
> >>
> >> > Aww. I was hoping that the Sherm 'N Andy Show would go into
> >> > syndication...
> >>
> >> Sorry to disappoint! Maybe I'm getting older, but my patience for the
> >> antics of idiots, and my willingness to try to educate them, are both
> >> growing shorter.
> >
> > You have behaved disgracefully
>
> I assume you know how to use a killfile - if you value warm fuzzy
> behavior over facts, you know how to ignore me.

Why would I kf you? Just because you have acted ungraciously,
unnecessarily, cruelly, insensitively and largely without
foundation? You have to be kidding!

(Oh... and btw, you did not establish straight facts to back your
claim that Andy was a no-good lowdown scumbag cheat and liar
whatever else he may have been.)

--
dorayme