«

The original poster is a rank amateur. He argues against a point made
later in the thread in favour of the 7-14mm Panasonic versus the
9-18mm Olympus. The Panasonic is an enthusiast, even a pro lens. The
Olympus is a kit lens. 14-18mm lenses (equivalent on a FF) were never
meant as "walk around lenses." 14-18mm lenses are specific tools meant
for very narrowly defined tasks involving extreme angles, they are not
frigging "street shooting" lenses. We've become spoiled because these
kinds of wide angles weren't available to amateurs for cheap prices
until recently (the last 10 years or so). Prior to that, they were
high priced prime lenses that rarely saw the inside of an amateur's
bag. It's no wonder current owners (some of them) don't have a clue
as to their actual purpose.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...ssage=35620547

On Sun, 20 Jun 2010 20:41:20 -0700 (PDT), RichA <>
wrote:

>The original poster is a rank amateur. He argues against a point made
>later in the thread in favour of the 7-14mm Panasonic versus the

Wrong. All rank amateurs are more concerned with equipment than the
photographs they are trying to create, no matter what camera and lens might
be in their hands.

On Jun 20, 11:44*pm, John Navas <jn...@navasgroup.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 20 Jun 2010 20:41:20 -0700 (PDT), in
> <ccd9a097-d27c-4940-8488-d3124e49c...@e5g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>,
>
> RichA <rander3...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >The original poster is a rank amateur. *He argues against a point made
> >later in the thread in favour of the 7-14mm Panasonic versus the
> >9-18mm Olympus. *The Panasonic is an enthusiast, even a pro lens. *The
> >Olympus is a kit lens. *14-18mm lenses (equivalent on a FF) were never
> >meant as "walk around lenses." 14-18mm lenses are specific tools meant
> >for very narrowly defined tasks involving extreme angles, they are not
> >frigging "street shooting" lenses. *We've become spoiled because these
> >kinds of wide angles weren't available to amateurs for cheap prices
> >until recently (the last 10 years or so). *Prior to that, they were
> >high priced prime lenses that rarely saw the inside of an amateur's
> >bag. *It's no wonder current owners (some of them) don't have a clue
> >as to their actual purpose.
>
> >http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...ssage=35620547
>
> This matters ... why?
>

Because it's there? Why does anything matter?

Your point is moot, neither Panasonic or Olympus are pro cameras.

"RichA" <> wrote in message
news:ccd9a097-d27c-4940-8488-...
> The original poster is a rank amateur. He argues against a point made
> later in the thread in favour of the 7-14mm Panasonic versus the
> 9-18mm Olympus. The Panasonic is an enthusiast, even a pro lens. The
> Olympus is a kit lens. 14-18mm lenses (equivalent on a FF) were never
> meant as "walk around lenses." 14-18mm lenses are specific tools meant
> for very narrowly defined tasks involving extreme angles, they are not
> frigging "street shooting" lenses. We've become spoiled because these
> kinds of wide angles weren't available to amateurs for cheap prices
> until recently (the last 10 years or so). Prior to that, they were
> high priced prime lenses that rarely saw the inside of an amateur's
> bag. It's no wonder current owners (some of them) don't have a clue
> as to their actual purpose.
>
> http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...ssage=35620547
>

"Outing Trolls is FUN!" <> wrote in message
news:...
> On Sun, 20 Jun 2010 20:41:20 -0700 (PDT), RichA <>
> wrote:
>
>>The original poster is a rank amateur. He argues against a point made
>>later in the thread in favour of the 7-14mm Panasonic versus the
>
> Wrong. All rank amateurs are more concerned with equipment than the
> photographs they are trying to create, no matter what camera and lens
> might
> be in their hands.
>
I agree with that. Earlier I commented about neither Panasonic or Olympus
being pro cameras. That is not a reflection on the product, but rather the
market segment. Nikon and Canon both have Pro Service that give advantages
over Pentax, Sony et al. A skilled shooter can get great results if he/she
knows their limitations.

On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 12:51:48 -0700, Paul Furman <paul-@-edgehill.net>
wrote:
>
>BTW, I didn't realize different brand m4/3 lenses were actually
>compatible for electrical connections, metering, AF, etc... That's got
>to be a first in the industry, ever.
>
>> http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...ssage=35620547


There have been incompatibilities, especially with Olympus lenses used
on Panasonic bodies. However, the co-operation between the two
companies to solve these problems has been particularly impressive.

It's a pity that there are no third party manufacturers making a range
of lenses for Four Thirds. Yes, I know about Sigma, but the lenses
are adaptations of Sigma lenses for other formats, particularly APS-C,
rather than being designed from scratch for Four Thirds.

Given that Four Thirds is an open standard, a third party manufacturer
who produced a range of high quality lenses for [Micro] Four Thirds
might do very well out of it.

In article <>, John Navas
<> wrote:

> The only way to tell to tell a rank amateur from a seasoned one, or a
> pro, is to look at their images. Equipment is irrelevant, except to
> those who mistakenly think great equipment will make them great
> photographers. It won't. What matters is the photographer, not the
> equipment.

the photographer does matter, but equipment is not irrelevant. knowing
when to use a particular camera and/or lens is a skill that seasoned
amateurs and pros should have (but not all do, sadly).

On Jun 21, 2:19*pm, "/dev/null/" <d...@null.invalid> wrote:
> Your point is moot, neither Panasonic or Olympus are pro cameras.
>

At some point in the near future, pro will no longer always include
bulk.

On Jun 21, 3:51*pm, Paul Furman <pa...@-edgehill.net> wrote:
> RichA wrote:
> > The original poster is a rank amateur. *He argues against a point made
> > later in the thread in favour of the 7-14mm Panasonic versus the
> > 9-18mm Olympus. *The Panasonic is an enthusiast, even a pro lens. *The
> > Olympus is a kit lens. *14-18mm lenses (equivalent on a FF) were never
> > meant as "walk around lenses." 14-18mm lenses are specific tools meant
> > for very narrowly defined tasks involving extreme angles, they are not
> > frigging "street shooting" lenses. *We've become spoiled because these
> > kinds of wide angles weren't available to amateurs for cheap prices
> > until recently (the last 10 years or so). *Prior to that, they were
> > high priced prime lenses that rarely saw the inside of an amateur's
> > bag. *It's no wonder current owners (some of them) don't have a clue
> > as to their actual purpose.
>
> I don't know what you're rambling on about. People walk around with
> whatever lens that pleases them. The Oly is apparently compact, which is
> great for walking around with a small camera street shooting, and costs
> less, which is the other point of m4/3. I love wide angle street
> shooting at 12mm FF. The demo pics are not award winning high art but
> nothing wrong with them either and I didn't see where they claimed to be
> pro.
>
> BTW, I didn't realize different brand m4/3 lenses were actually
> compatible for electrical connections, metering, AF, etc... That's got
> to be a first in the industry, ever.
>
> >http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...ssage=35620547

Them, and some 4/3rds lenses are.

On Jun 21, 1:23*pm, John Navas <jn...@navasgroup.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 10:09:02 -0700 (PDT), in
> <87351056-2e43-4c5c-b33d-c1d2a42d0...@d4g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>,
>
>
>
> RichA <rander3...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Jun 20, 11:44*pm, John Navas <jn...@navasgroup.com> wrote:
> >> On Sun, 20 Jun 2010 20:41:20 -0700 (PDT), in
> >> <ccd9a097-d27c-4940-8488-d3124e49c...@e5g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>,
>
> >> RichA <rander3...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >The original poster is a rank amateur. *He argues against a point made
> >> >later in the thread in favour of the 7-14mm Panasonic versus the
> >> >9-18mm Olympus. *The Panasonic is an enthusiast, even a pro lens. *The
> >> >Olympus is a kit lens. *14-18mm lenses (equivalent on a FF) were never
> >> >meant as "walk around lenses." 14-18mm lenses are specific tools meant
> >> >for very narrowly defined tasks involving extreme angles, they are not
> >> >frigging "street shooting" lenses. *We've become spoiled because these
> >> >kinds of wide angles weren't available to amateurs for cheap prices
> >> >until recently (the last 10 years or so). *Prior to that, they were
> >> >high priced prime lenses that rarely saw the inside of an amateur's
> >> >bag. *It's no wonder current owners (some of them) don't have a clue
> >> >as to their actual purpose.
>
> >> >http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...ssage=35620547
>
> >> This matters ... why?
>
> >Because it's there? *Why does anything matter?
>
> I didn't think so. *Thanks for the confirmation.
>
> The only way to tell to tell a rank amateur from a seasoned one, or a
> pro, is to look at their images. *Equipment is irrelevant, except to
> those who mistakenly think great equipment will make them great
> photographers. *It won't. *What matters is the photographer, not the
> equipment.

Go shoot an image with a cheap P&S. Use whatever compositional skills
you have. It'll still suck technically and there is nothing you could
do to prevent it because the equipment would fall short.