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Rechargable batteries and information

 
 
Graham.
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      06-16-2010


"Brian Gregory [UK]" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> "(E-Mail Removed)" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>> Does anyone know what the technology of hybrid batteries is? I don't
>> mean what they do, I mean the chemistry or whatever.

>
> Same chemistry AFAIK (and therefore exactly the same voltage).
> Just different construction.


Why "hybrid" then, usually means a mixture of techniques or technologies, much like this
random cross-post

--
Graham.

%Profound_observation%


 
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Bodincus
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      06-17-2010
(17/06/10 15:35), Brian Gregory [UK]:
> "David Woolley"<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:hv9r79$spf$(E-Mail Removed)-september.org...
>> Ian Jackson wrote:
>>
>>> Are 'modern' DAB radios designed to work with the lower voltage you get
>>> from NiMH (1.2V compared with 1.5V for non-rechargeable)? I've not tried
>>> it lately, but I recall that my DAB radio (my ONLY DAB radio) doesn't
>>> last long on rechargeables - maybe only an hour or two. After that, it
>>> will keep going for some time on FM.

>>
>> That's going to be expensive on non-rechargeables! The end point voltage
>> for alkalines is about 0.9 volts, and they spend quite a lot of their life
>> below 1.2.

>
> Indeed.
>
> There is an appallingly large amount of equipment around doesn't get
> anywhere near using all the available energy in the expensive batteries that
> power it.
>
> I've had particularly bad experiences with digital cameras.
>

Seconded. I have a Kodak digital camera that was particularly fussy
about rechargeable batteries.
It annoyed me so much I went to the lengths to hack the camera firmware
and tamper with the low voltage trigger points.
The camera runs on two AA batteries. The warning trigger point was set
at 2.78V, and the shutdown point was at 2.50. That means 1.25V per
battery. I mean, 1.25V!!!
And - by the way - since when is the voltage of a battery an indication
of the residual power in it?
I have lowered the thresholds to 2.5V and 2.2V three years ago, and is
running fine, even using the flash. Not a corrupted picture, NOTHING.
In fact, I have the proof the camera manufacturers purposely keep the
threshold high to sell you their specific (and hugely expensive) custom
battery packs. I got one to sample it, and the output voltage - fresh
out of the box - was 3.89V. Almost one volt over the standard.
All devices that are built to use rechargeable batteries, and declare
they accept rechargeable batteries in their literature, must be
engineered and built with a 1.2V per unit target.
A NiMH battery at 1.0V has a massive amount of energy left in it, so the
device MUST adapt and accept lower voltages to squeeze every ounce of
energy out of the battery.
In the light of the new "green this and that" I would vouch to declare
illegal any device that doesn't follow this sensible and proper guidelines.
If a device you buy doesn't use energy efficiently, get your money back
and let the company know you find their products and standards of
manufacturing not acceptable, that what I did with Kodak.
Although you might think "They're a giant, they don't care", I can tell
you THEY DO. A LOT. they're particularly twitchy in these days if you
hit the "green" button with customer relations.

--
Bodincus - The Y2K Druid
************************
Law 42 on computing:
Anything that could fail, will break at the worst possible mom%*= ?@@
# Access Violation - Core dumped
# Kernel Panic
 
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Richard Tobin
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      06-17-2010
In article <hvdml9$t52$(E-Mail Removed)-september.org>,
Graham. <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>> Same chemistry AFAIK (and therefore exactly the same voltage).
>> Just different construction.


>Why "hybrid" then, usually means a mixture of techniques or
>technologies, much like this random cross-post


Marketing. It combines the rechargability of rechargables with
the long shelf-life of ordinary batteries. That's close enough to
"hybrid" for a marketroid.

-- Richard
 
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Max Demian
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      06-17-2010
"Brian Gregory [UK]" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> "David Woolley" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:hv9r79$spf$(E-Mail Removed)-september.org...
>> Ian Jackson wrote:
>>
>>> Are 'modern' DAB radios designed to work with the lower voltage you get
>>> from NiMH (1.2V compared with 1.5V for non-rechargeable)? I've not tried
>>> it lately, but I recall that my DAB radio (my ONLY DAB radio) doesn't
>>> last long on rechargeables - maybe only an hour or two. After that, it
>>> will keep going for some time on FM.

>>
>> That's going to be expensive on non-rechargeables! The end point voltage
>> for alkalines is about 0.9 volts, and they spend quite a lot of their
>> life below 1.2.

>
> Indeed.
>
> There is an appallingly large amount of equipment around doesn't get
> anywhere near using all the available energy in the expensive batteries
> that power it.
>
> I've had particularly bad experiences with digital cameras.


If you use alkaline batteries, just keep the 'exhausted' ones and put them
in something else.

I find they run a quartz analogue clock for six months.

--
Max Demian


 
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Man at B&Q
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      06-18-2010
On Jun 17, 6:46*pm, Bodincus <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> And - by the way - since when is the voltage of a battery an indication
> of the residual power in it?


http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/97133.pdf

MBQ


 
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Bodincus
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      06-18-2010
(18/06/10 11:17), Man at B&Q:
> On Jun 17, 6:46 pm, Bodincus<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> And - by the way - since when is the voltage of a battery an indication
>> of the residual power in it?

>
> http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/97133.pdf
>
> MBQ
>
>

A) That's for alkaline batteries, not rechargeables, and we know the
pattern is massively different. Rechargeables have a voltage peak at the
beginning, then they settle to an average for longer than normal
batteries, then they fall sharply (sharper than that graphs).

B) However, that proves my point. The relationship between voltage and
residual power is non-linear, and the residual power inside the battery
- whatever type it is - is not related to the voltage between the dipoles.

So WHY the devices are still using voltage as a value to measure if a
battery is still delivering the needed power?

BTW, just curious... what MBQ stand for? MegaBecquerel?

--
Bodincus - The Y2K Druid
************************
Law 42 on computing:
Anything that could fail, will break at the worst possible mom%*= ?@@
# Access Violation - Core dumped
# Kernel Panic
 
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The Natural Philosopher
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      06-18-2010
Bodincus wrote:

>
> B) However, that proves my point. The relationship between voltage and
> residual power is non-linear,


Correct

and the residual power inside the battery
> - whatever type it is - is not related to the voltage between the dipoles.


Incorrect.

>
> So WHY the devices are still using voltage as a value to measure if a
> battery is still delivering the needed power?
>


Because it works.
 
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Chris Blunt
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      06-18-2010
On Fri, 18 Jun 2010 13:31:24 +0100, Bodincus <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>B) However, that proves my point. The relationship between voltage and
>residual power is non-linear, and the residual power inside the battery
>- whatever type it is - is not related to the voltage between the dipoles.
>
>So WHY the devices are still using voltage as a value to measure if a
>battery is still delivering the needed power?


What else could they measure?
 
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Terry Casey
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      06-18-2010
Bodincus wrote:
> (18/06/10 11:17), Man at B&Q:

^^^^^^^^^^

>> On Jun 17, 6:46 pm, Bodincus<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>
>>> And - by the way - since when is the voltage of a battery an indication
>>> of the residual power in it?

>>
>> http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/97133.pdf
>>
>> MBQ
>>
>>


<snip>

>
> BTW, just curious... what MBQ stand for? MegaBecquerel?
>


Man at B&Q?

or is that too obvious?
--

Terry
 
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The Natural Philosopher
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      06-18-2010
Chris Blunt wrote:
> On Fri, 18 Jun 2010 13:31:24 +0100, Bodincus <(E-Mail Removed)>
> wrote:
>
>> B) However, that proves my point. The relationship between voltage and
>> residual power is non-linear, and the residual power inside the battery
>> - whatever type it is - is not related to the voltage between the dipoles.
>>
>> So WHY the devices are still using voltage as a value to measure if a
>> battery is still delivering the needed power?

>
> What else could they measure?


weight. E=mc^2 and all that
 
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