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Re: Looking For Direction

 
 
Arved Sandstrom
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      06-10-2010
ilan wrote:
> Arved Sandstrom <(E-Mail Removed)> writes:
>
> <snip>
>
>> The way Mono is moving along that's not strictly speaking true. In any
>> case, being "locked into" a Windows-based network is not exactly a
>> liability, not now and not for a few more decades.

>
> Being locked into a Windows-based anything is liability. It is. And
> in this case its simply not necessary.


You know, being locked into a Linux distro or a flavour of UNIX is just
as much of a liability. I gotta tell you, I fail to see how being
"locked into" Windows is a problem.

>> As it is, the majority of fellow developers and clients that I deal
>> with do J2SE/J2EE on Windows.

>
> So? How did the developers and clients you deal with suddenly become a
> symbol of the entire wired world? Its your world. That's ok. But its not
> everyone.
>
>> Every job I've had there's always been a fair bit - often a majority -
>> of other applications that have been on Windows.

>
> Yes. Every job *you* have worked in. So what...? Really.


My statement was anecdotal, but I'm prepared to guess - damned if I know
why I believe something this outlandish - that a whole bunch of people
out there...maybe even a majority...use Windows. But if you think
different that's your prerogative.

>> So it may be a point of pride that your app in theory could run on
>> many OS's, but since almost everyone will have Windows who really
>> cares?

>
> Almost everyone will not have Windows. And almost everyone does not have
> Windows.


???

>> AHS

>
> --
> ilAn


--
It should be noted that no ethically-trained software engineer would
ever consent to write a DestroyBaghdad procedure. Basic professional
ethics would instead require him to write a DestroyCity procedure, to
which Baghdad could be given as a parameter.
-- Nathaniel Borenstein
 
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Joshua Cranmer
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      06-10-2010
On 06/10/2010 06:42 PM, Arved Sandstrom wrote:
>> Almost everyone will not have Windows. And almost everyone does not have
>> Windows.


I'm pretty sure most mobile phones lack Windows.

--
Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not
tried it. -- Donald E. Knuth
 
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Arved Sandstrom
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      06-10-2010
Joshua Cranmer wrote:
> On 06/10/2010 06:42 PM, Arved Sandstrom wrote:
>>> Almost everyone will not have Windows. And almost everyone does not have
>>> Windows.

>
> I'm pretty sure most mobile phones lack Windows.
>

Well, OK, fair enough. But I was thinking of devices that would have
screens large enough to be useful for the kind of application being
discussed, and the OS's that would be running the apps that populate
those displays. "Desktop" or server OS's, IOW...not smartphone or tablet
OS's.

AHS
--
It should be noted that no ethically-trained software engineer would
ever consent to write a DestroyBaghdad procedure. Basic professional
ethics would instead require him to write a DestroyCity procedure, to
which Baghdad could be given as a parameter.
-- Nathaniel Borenstein
 
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Arved Sandstrom
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      06-11-2010
JC wrote:
>> He may not be a DBA, but if has been writing SQL statements for the
>> app then he would know some of Oracles ways of doing things.
>>
>> Arne
>>

>
> I dream in SQL ...
>
> Even though I'm not a DBA, from time to time I have to do DBA oriented
> things. Since the system is not highly sophisticated this is never been too
> much of a problem. I'd say the most important thing I do along these lines
> is monitor the size of the tablespaces, how fast they are growing. Maybe a
> few times in the beginning I had to resize them; but I pretty much have a
> handle on it now. By law we only have to keep ten years worth of data. So
> every night I have a routine that deletes anything older than ten years
> (actually I go ten years and six months just to be safe). We started doing
> this (deleting old data) about a year or so ago. It helps keep the size of
> the database more stable (except whenever we get new contracts that are big
> clients which has happened twice ... once with the state of Alabama and more
> recently with West Virginia). Anyway, what I worry about is with the
> deleting and adding of data on a consistent basis whether something funky
> will happen some day like file corruption, fragmentation, etc. Things which
> I really don't know how to fix of have any experience with.
> -JC


I should note, I certainly wasn't casting any aspersions on you by
emphasizing that you said you're not a DBA. Neither am I. I can get
basic DBA things done on a number of RDBMS's like Oracle, SQL Server and
PostgreSQL, and for the databases you use I suspect you're at the same
level as myself.

I was simply considering the fact that I myself don't have a great deal
of time invested in learning how to do these basic DBA tasks. Also,
there are a lot of resources available for any de facto DBA, for almost
any widely used RDBMS. So switching from one to another, and acquiring
the basic skill set that you have for your version of Oracle on another
RDBMS, is not a large investment of time, IMO.

To reiterate, I am _not_ suggesting that it's a trivial thing for a
_true_ DBA on RDBMS #1 to acquire the equivalent skills on RDBMS #2.

AHS

--
It should be noted that no ethically-trained software engineer would
ever consent to write a DestroyBaghdad procedure. Basic professional
ethics would instead require him to write a DestroyCity procedure, to
which Baghdad could be given as a parameter.
-- Nathaniel Borenstein
 
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David Kerber
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      06-11-2010
In article <k2dQn.6548$z%6.2043@edtnps83>, http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed) says...
>
> David Kerber wrote:
> > In article <4c1033b3$0$278$(E-Mail Removed)>, (E-Mail Removed)
> > says...
> >
> > ...
> >
> >> Given that he has Java, JDBC and Oracle experience then he should
> >> have at least some advantages going Java instead of .NET.

> >
> > Not to mention that those are all cross-platform options. while .NET
> > locks you into a windows-based network.

>
> The way Mono is moving along that's not strictly speaking true. In any
> case, being "locked into" a Windows-based network is not exactly a
> liability, not now and not for a few more decades. As it is, the
> majority of fellow developers and clients that I deal with do J2SE/J2EE
> on Windows. Every job I've had there's always been a fair bit - often a
> majority - of other applications that have been on Windows. So it may be
> a point of pride that your app in theory could run on many OS's, but
> since almost everyone will have Windows who really cares?


This is certainly true on the front (end-user) end, but much less so on
the server side. Windows still makes up only a minority of the servers
out there.

D
 
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Arne Vajhj
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      06-12-2010
On 11-06-2010 12:45, JC wrote:
> Actually, everything I do on Oracle I learned on my own. And I think this
> was only possible due to a limited amount of formal training on Sybase and
> T/SQL.


In which case SQLServer may not be that difficult, because SQLServer
also uses T-SQL although today Microsoft's and Sybase's dialects
has somewhat diverged.

Arne

 
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Arne Vajhj
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      06-12-2010
On 11-06-2010 08:28, David Kerber wrote:
> In article<k2dQn.6548$z%6.2043@edtnps83>, (E-Mail Removed) says...
>> David Kerber wrote:
>>> Not to mention that those are all cross-platform options. while .NET
>>> locks you into a windows-based network.

>>
>> The way Mono is moving along that's not strictly speaking true. In any
>> case, being "locked into" a Windows-based network is not exactly a
>> liability, not now and not for a few more decades. As it is, the
>> majority of fellow developers and clients that I deal with do J2SE/J2EE
>> on Windows. Every job I've had there's always been a fair bit - often a
>> majority - of other applications that have been on Windows. So it may be
>> a point of pride that your app in theory could run on many OS's, but
>> since almost everyone will have Windows who really cares?

>
> This is certainly true on the front (end-user) end, but much less so on
> the server side. Windows still makes up only a minority of the servers
> out there.


It is a rather big minority.

Java is not exactly Microsofts backyard, but a recent study showed
that Java EE projects was deployed:

Windows 57%
Redhat & Centos 35%
Suse 12%
Other Linux 16%
Solaris 18%
AIX 14%
HP-UX 5%
Other 7%

(it adds up to more than 100% because some projects
targets multiple platforms)

For .NET the Windows percentage is approx. 100%.

That is a lot of Windows servers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_s...ystems#Servers

gives the same picture.

Arne


 
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Arne Vajhj
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      06-12-2010
On 11-06-2010 06:57, (E-Mail Removed) wrote:
> Arved Sandstrom<(E-Mail Removed)> writes:
>> My statement was anecdotal, but I'm prepared to guess - damned if I
>> know why I believe something this outlandish - that a whole bunch of
>> people out there...maybe even a majority...use Windows. But if you
>> think different that's your prerogative.

>
> Here is something factual.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_server
> http://news.netcraft.com/archives/2010/01/
>
> Vendor Product Web Sites Hosted (millions) Percent
> Apache Apache 111 54%
> Microsoft IIS 50 24%
> Igor Sysoev nginx 16 8%
> Google GWS 15 7%
> lighttpd lighttpd 1 0.46%


Well - 24% only runs on Windows and 62% can run on Windows, so
you have proved that Windows is used on 24-86% of web servers.

I think that confirms Arveds claims.

Arne


 
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Martin Gregorie
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      06-12-2010
On Fri, 11 Jun 2010 20:56:59 -0400, Arne Vajhøj wrote:

> On 11-06-2010 08:28, David Kerber wrote:
>> In article<k2dQn.6548$z%6.2043@edtnps83>, (E-Mail Removed) says...
>>> David Kerber wrote:
>>>> Not to mention that those are all cross-platform options. while .NET
>>>> locks you into a windows-based network.
>>>
>>> The way Mono is moving along that's not strictly speaking true. In any
>>> case, being "locked into" a Windows-based network is not exactly a
>>> liability, not now and not for a few more decades. As it is, the
>>> majority of fellow developers and clients that I deal with do
>>> J2SE/J2EE on Windows. Every job I've had there's always been a fair
>>> bit - often a majority - of other applications that have been on
>>> Windows. So it may be a point of pride that your app in theory could
>>> run on many OS's, but since almost everyone will have Windows who
>>> really cares?

>>
>> This is certainly true on the front (end-user) end, but much less so on
>> the server side. Windows still makes up only a minority of the servers
>> out there.

>
> It is a rather big minority.
>
> Java is not exactly Microsofts backyard, but a recent study showed that
> Java EE projects was deployed:
>
> Windows 57%
> Redhat & Centos 35%
> Suse 12%
> Other Linux 16%
> Solaris 18%
> AIX 14%
> HP-UX 5%
> Other 7%
>
> (it adds up to more than 100% because some projects targets multiple
> platforms)
>
> For .NET the Windows percentage is approx. 100%.
>
> That is a lot of Windows servers.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_s...ystems#Servers
>
> gives the same picture.
>


That doesn't altogether tally with webserver usage:

Apache 54%
Microsoft IIS 24%
Igor Sysoev nginx 8%
Google GWS 7%
lighttpd 0.46%

unless there are a *lot* more Apache webservers running under Windows
than I've always heard there are.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |
 
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Arne Vajhøj
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      06-12-2010
On 12-06-2010 11:04, Martin Gregorie wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Jun 2010 20:56:59 -0400, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>> On 11-06-2010 08:28, David Kerber wrote:
>>> In article<k2dQn.6548$z%6.2043@edtnps83>, (E-Mail Removed) says...
>>>> David Kerber wrote:
>>>>> Not to mention that those are all cross-platform options. while .NET
>>>>> locks you into a windows-based network.
>>>>
>>>> The way Mono is moving along that's not strictly speaking true. In any
>>>> case, being "locked into" a Windows-based network is not exactly a
>>>> liability, not now and not for a few more decades. As it is, the
>>>> majority of fellow developers and clients that I deal with do
>>>> J2SE/J2EE on Windows. Every job I've had there's always been a fair
>>>> bit - often a majority - of other applications that have been on
>>>> Windows. So it may be a point of pride that your app in theory could
>>>> run on many OS's, but since almost everyone will have Windows who
>>>> really cares?
>>>
>>> This is certainly true on the front (end-user) end, but much less so on
>>> the server side. Windows still makes up only a minority of the servers
>>> out there.

>>
>> It is a rather big minority.
>>
>> Java is not exactly Microsofts backyard, but a recent study showed that
>> Java EE projects was deployed:
>>
>> Windows 57%
>> Redhat& Centos 35%
>> Suse 12%
>> Other Linux 16%
>> Solaris 18%
>> AIX 14%
>> HP-UX 5%
>> Other 7%
>>
>> (it adds up to more than 100% because some projects targets multiple
>> platforms)
>>
>> For .NET the Windows percentage is approx. 100%.
>>
>> That is a lot of Windows servers.
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_s...ystems#Servers
>>
>> gives the same picture.

>
> That doesn't altogether tally with webserver usage:
>
> Apache 54%
> Microsoft IIS 24%
> Igor Sysoev nginx 8%
> Google GWS 7%
> lighttpd 0.46%
>
> unless there are a *lot* more Apache webservers running under Windows
> than I've always heard there are.


There are Apache servers on Windows.

But I don't understand why you think web server platform
should relate to either Java EE platform or overall
server platform.

Arne
 
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