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nz.comp... yeah, right group... Google wifi snooping..

 
 
~misfit~
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Posts: n/a
 
      05-14-2010
Bloody Google huh? Had WiFi sniffing gear in their 'street view' photo cars
and collected as much info as possible while driving around, linking it to
locations, especially looking for non-password protected routers. To me
that's really stepping over the line.

I predicted a few years ago that Google were the 'evil empire' to be feared,
not Microsoft. Why would they want this data <rhetorical>

http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/di...ata-collection
http://news.cnet.com/8301-30686_3-20...=2547-1_3-0-20

"inadvertently collecting data about people's online activities from
unsecured Wi-Fi networks over the past four years"? Yeah, right. That's like
accidently raping someone. There was intent. They had the equipment in the
vehicles, collecting data for *four years*. I don't see anything inadvertant
about that... The bastards are everywhere.

You can reach me at http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed)....


 
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Squiggle
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Posts: n/a
 
      05-15-2010
On 15/05/2010 11:49 a.m., ~misfit~ threw some characters down the intarwebs:
> Bloody Google huh? Had WiFi sniffing gear in their 'street view' photo cars
> and collected as much info as possible while driving around, linking it to
> locations, especially looking for non-password protected routers. To me
> that's really stepping over the line.


"especially looking for non-password protected routers" nice bit of
spin you've added there .. From what i read it looks like they simply
had wifi gear in promiscuous/search mode recording all wi-fi data that
they could detect, no special searching for open networks needed.

>
> I predicted a few years ago that Google were the 'evil empire' to be feared,
> not Microsoft. Why would they want this data <rhetorical>
>
> http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/di...ata-collection
> http://news.cnet.com/8301-30686_3-20...=2547-1_3-0-20
>
> "inadvertently collecting data about people's online activities from
> unsecured Wi-Fi networks over the past four years"? Yeah, right. That's like
> accidently raping someone. There was intent.


Thats a bit rich, next you'll be accusing the guy walking his dog on
your the street that glanced at your house of casing it for a buglary..

> They had the equipment in the
> vehicles, collecting data for *four years*. I don't see anything inadvertant
> about that... The bastards are everywhere.
>
> You can reach me at (E-Mail Removed)....
>
>



I think you're overreacting a bit there misfit, there are several
reasons I can think of for collecting wifi network data that are not an
invasion of privacy or at all nefarious:

Developing a map of technology to study the spread of wifi
technologies.. eg how fast does 802.11b/g/n get adopted.

And the spread of free/paid wifi hotspots etc. Personally i would love
to be able to jump on google maps and check if the place I was meeting a
friend for coffee had a wifi hotspot in the area.

Using wifi presence as a proxy for affluence of a neighbourhood etc.

Studying frequency congestion.. how many people in the neighbourhood are
already using the band, ie, how much interference will your wifi be
getting from your neighbours network

All of that is useful and valuable information.
 
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Peter
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Posts: n/a
 
      05-15-2010
Squiggle wrote:
<snip>
> I think you're overreacting a bit there misfit, there are several
> reasons I can think of for collecting wifi network data that are not an
> invasion of privacy or at all nefarious:
>
> Developing a map of technology to study the spread of wifi
> technologies.. eg how fast does 802.11b/g/n get adopted.
>
> And the spread of free/paid wifi hotspots etc. Personally i would love
> to be able to jump on google maps and check if the place I was meeting a
> friend for coffee had a wifi hotspot in the area.
>
> Using wifi presence as a proxy for affluence of a neighbourhood etc.
>
> Studying frequency congestion.. how many people in the neighbourhood are
> already using the band, ie, how much interference will your wifi be
> getting from your neighbours network
>
> All of that is useful and valuable information.


On the radio, they explained one potential use was to assist handpieces (eg
Android phones) to locate themselves. That is, if the handpiece can detect
which wifis are in range, it gets a hint on where it is.

 
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victor
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      05-15-2010
On 15/05/2010 11:49 a.m., ~misfit~ wrote:
> Bloody Google huh? Had WiFi sniffing gear in their 'street view' photo cars
> and collected as much info as possible while driving around, linking it to
> locations, especially looking for non-password protected routers. To me
> that's really stepping over the line.
>
> I predicted a few years ago that Google were the 'evil empire' to be feared,
> not Microsoft. Why would they want this data<rhetorical>
>
> http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/di...ata-collection
> http://news.cnet.com/8301-30686_3-20...=2547-1_3-0-20
>
> "inadvertently collecting data about people's online activities from
> unsecured Wi-Fi networks over the past four years"? Yeah, right. That's like
> accidently raping someone. There was intent. They had the equipment in the
> vehicles, collecting data for *four years*. I don't see anything inadvertant
> about that... The bastards are everywhere.
>
> You can reach me at (E-Mail Removed)....
>
>

I'd expect them to GPS map all the public hotspots they by looking for
the http captive portal landing pages as any citizen is entitled to.
Theres heaps out there, every motel, hotel, coffee chains, isps,
airports, truck stops, transport hubs, hospitals etc
Its the best way to do it, I don't care if some bozos leave their home
wifi open, I don't see why their incompetence should stand in the way of
the gathering of useful public service information.
 
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victor
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      05-15-2010
On 15/05/2010 1:07 p.m., Peter wrote:
> Squiggle wrote:
> <snip>
>> I think you're overreacting a bit there misfit, there are several
>> reasons I can think of for collecting wifi network data that are not an
>> invasion of privacy or at all nefarious:
>>
>> Developing a map of technology to study the spread of wifi
>> technologies.. eg how fast does 802.11b/g/n get adopted.
>>
>> And the spread of free/paid wifi hotspots etc. Personally i would love
>> to be able to jump on google maps and check if the place I was meeting a
>> friend for coffee had a wifi hotspot in the area.
>>
>> Using wifi presence as a proxy for affluence of a neighbourhood etc.
>>
>> Studying frequency congestion.. how many people in the neighbourhood are
>> already using the band, ie, how much interference will your wifi be
>> getting from your neighbours network
>>
>> All of that is useful and valuable information.

>
> On the radio, they explained one potential use was to assist handpieces (eg
> Android phones) to locate themselves. That is, if the handpiece can detect
> which wifis are in range, it gets a hint on where it is.
>


The primary use is to enable users to find free wifi using Google Maps

http://www.ehow.com/how_2272891_use-...free-wifi.html

They don't need to send out cars to do that, all the GPS and Wifi phones
etc will scan out all that information for them eventually and inevitably.
 
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Peter
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      05-15-2010
~misfit~ wrote:
> Bloody Google huh? Had WiFi sniffing gear in their 'street view' photo
> cars and collected as much info as possible while driving around, linking
> it to locations, especially looking for non-password protected routers. To
> me that's really stepping over the line.


Looks like Google has stopped this now ...
http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/di.../Google-halts-
Street-View-Wi-Fi-data-collection

"Google says it will no longer collect WiFi network information for its
Street View mapping service after "mistakenly" gathering personal wireless
data."


 
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Gordon
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      05-15-2010
On 2010-05-15, Peter <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> ~misfit~ wrote:
>> Bloody Google huh? Had WiFi sniffing gear in their 'street view' photo
>> cars and collected as much info as possible while driving around, linking
>> it to locations, especially looking for non-password protected routers. To
>> me that's really stepping over the line.

>
> Looks like Google has stopped this now ...
> http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/di.../Google-halts-
> Street-View-Wi-Fi-data-collection
>
> "Google says it will no longer collect WiFi network information for its
> Street View mapping service after "mistakenly" gathering personal wireless
> data."
>

Okay so public opinion has guided Google.

I do think we need to think, remind ourselves where Google came from. Its
roots, its culture comes from this.

Google gathers information/data and created a darn good search engine for
the web. Now with that sucsess what else can we do? They ask themselves.
Well any and all data that is freely avaliable is the obvious answer.

The world needs to expalin to Google where the boundaries are. Just like a
country with nuclear weapons. Because you have it does not mean that you
shoul, or should use it.

Society should be sorting out what is okay, rather than what is not.
 
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Richard
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      05-15-2010
victor wrote:

> The primary use is to enable users to find free wifi using Google Maps
>
> http://www.ehow.com/how_2272891_use-...free-wifi.html
>
> They don't need to send out cars to do that, all the GPS and Wifi phones
> etc will scan out all that information for them eventually and inevitably.


Already have been doing that for years.

When a new flatmate moved in my non GPS capable phone was showing me
outsite his old house in google maps for ages.

When I got the N95, it showed me outside his old house when inside,
walked outside and the GPS updated once it got a lock.

Later on, started google maps inside and it showed me on the road
outside my house straight away.

I suspect that google were logging whole frames and not just the wifi
headers with the wifi mac address etc when driving and there was some
snippits of peoples internet use in the rest of the frames they grabbed.

No big deal, its like having your curtains open and someone seeing that
you are watching porn. Expose it to the public with no protection at all
and to me its public information.

Would you complain if they logged that you were listening to certain
music by a microphone in the car as it drove?
 
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victor
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      05-15-2010
On 15/05/2010 4:29 p.m., Gordon wrote:
> On 2010-05-15, Peter<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>> ~misfit~ wrote:
>>> Bloody Google huh? Had WiFi sniffing gear in their 'street view' photo
>>> cars and collected as much info as possible while driving around, linking
>>> it to locations, especially looking for non-password protected routers. To
>>> me that's really stepping over the line.

>>
>> Looks like Google has stopped this now ...
>> http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/di.../Google-halts-
>> Street-View-Wi-Fi-data-collection
>>
>> "Google says it will no longer collect WiFi network information for its
>> Street View mapping service after "mistakenly" gathering personal wireless
>> data."
>>

> Okay so public opinion has guided Google.
>
> I do think we need to think, remind ourselves where Google came from. Its
> roots, its culture comes from this.
>
> Google gathers information/data and created a darn good search engine for
> the web. Now with that sucsess what else can we do? They ask themselves.
> Well any and all data that is freely avaliable is the obvious answer.
>
> The world needs to expalin to Google where the boundaries are. Just like a
> country with nuclear weapons. Because you have it does not mean that you
> shoul, or should use it.
>
> Society should be sorting out what is okay, rather than what is not.


As they said, anyone can do it. The tools are just more aggressive than
they needed for the ssid and MAC info they wanted to capture.
They probably used wireshark, and other apps which anyone can easily
find bundled as BackTrack.
There are tutorials on youtube, quite interesting.
http://revision3.com/hak5
 
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~misfit~
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      05-15-2010
Somewhere on teh intarwebs Squiggle wrote:
> On 15/05/2010 11:49 a.m., ~misfit~ threw some characters down the
> intarwebs:
>> Bloody Google huh? Had WiFi sniffing gear in their 'street view'
>> photo cars and collected as much info as possible while driving
>> around, linking it to locations, especially looking for non-password
>> protected routers. To me that's really stepping over the line.

>
> "especially looking for non-password protected routers" nice bit of
> spin you've added there .. From what i read it looks like they simply
> had wifi gear in promiscuous/search mode recording all wi-fi data that
> they could detect, no special searching for open networks needed.
>
>>
>> I predicted a few years ago that Google were the 'evil empire' to be
>> feared, not Microsoft. Why would they want this data <rhetorical>
>>
>> http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/di...ata-collection
>> http://news.cnet.com/8301-30686_3-20...=2547-1_3-0-20
>>
>> "inadvertently collecting data about people's online activities from
>> unsecured Wi-Fi networks over the past four years"? Yeah, right.
>> That's like accidently raping someone. There was intent.

>
> Thats a bit rich, next you'll be accusing the guy walking his dog on
> your the street that glanced at your house of casing it for a
> buglary..


LOL, you haven't seen where I live.

>> They had the equipment in the
>> vehicles, collecting data for *four years*. I don't see anything
>> inadvertant about that... The bastards are everywhere.
>>
>> You can reach me at (E-Mail Removed)....
>>
>>

>
>
> I think you're overreacting a bit there misfit, there are several
> reasons I can think of for collecting wifi network data that are not
> an invasion of privacy or at all nefarious:
>
> Developing a map of technology to study the spread of wifi
> technologies.. eg how fast does 802.11b/g/n get adopted.
>
> And the spread of free/paid wifi hotspots etc. Personally i would love
> to be able to jump on google maps and check if the place I was
> meeting a friend for coffee had a wifi hotspot in the area.
>
> Using wifi presence as a proxy for affluence of a neighbourhood etc.
>
> Studying frequency congestion.. how many people in the neighbourhood
> are already using the band, ie, how much interference will your wifi
> be
> getting from your neighbours network
>
> All of that is useful and valuable information.


Hehee! At least the post got a conversation going in this group that is
relevant and wasn't OS dick-sizing.

Google did this in 30 countries, including the US, where the FBI have made
it clear that what they did was essentially wiretapping and is illegal.
--
Shaun.

"When we dream.... that's just our brains defragmenting" G Jackson.


 
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