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Re: CSS for positioning

 
 
Jonathan N. Little
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      05-11-2010
Jenn wrote:
> "rf"<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:y84Gn.24098$(E-Mail Removed)...


>> Hint: the single most important visitor to your site does not have
>> javascript enabled.

>
>
> Do you know anyone who disables javascript on purpose? FWIW.. most people
> have no idea how to do that, let alone would disable js unless they are just
> specifically looking to do so.. and then, such people would know how to turn
> it back on.


You missed the hint! The Google spider does not have javascript enable.

--
Take care,

Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
 
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Jenn
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      05-11-2010

"Jonathan N. Little" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:hsakrv$ssv$(E-Mail Removed)-september.org...
> Jenn wrote:
>> "rf"<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> news:y84Gn.24098$(E-Mail Removed)...

>
>>> Hint: the single most important visitor to your site does not have
>>> javascript enabled.

>>
>>
>> Do you know anyone who disables javascript on purpose? FWIW.. most
>> people
>> have no idea how to do that, let alone would disable js unless they are
>> just
>> specifically looking to do so.. and then, such people would know how to
>> turn
>> it back on.

>
> You missed the hint! The Google spider does not have javascript enable.
>



so? does that mean you don't put any javascript on a website? No.
--
Jenn (from Oklahoma)


 
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rf
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Posts: n/a
 
      05-11-2010

"Jenn" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:hsajot$vnp$(E-Mail Removed)-september.org...
>
> "rf" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:y84Gn.24098$(E-Mail Removed)...
>>
>> "Jenn" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> news:hsai3l$s5r$(E-Mail Removed)-september.org...
>>
>>> Ideas:
>>> http://snipurl.com/w4xqb
>>>
>>> http://www.dynamicdrive.com/dynamici...photoalbum.htm

>>
>> which, like just about everything at dynamicdrive, fails miserably if
>> Javascript is disabled. The thumbnails are not even *displayed* on that
>> page without Javascript, although, stupidly, the credits for them are
>>
>> Hint: the single most important visitor to your site does not have
>> javascript enabled.

>
>
> Do you know anyone who disables javascript on purpose? FWIW.. most people
> have no idea how to do that, let alone would disable js unless they are
> just specifically looking to do so.. and then, such people would know how
> to turn it back on.
>
> The problem I have with all this stuff is that there is no code that will
> be perfect to work in every scenario for every browser and every viewer
> that hits a page. If someone disables javascript on a page that uses it,
> then it's too bad for them. If they want to view the page.. let them
> enable javascript.


It's not people who I am concerned with. It's that most important visitor
mentioned above. The search engine bot.

If you use javascript to insert content (eg. images) onto a page, as the
page you mention above appears to do, then google will never see that
content.

Besides, what that page does is a simple exercise to code in a fully cross
browser mannar, and also in a mannar that degrades gracefully in the absense
of javascript, so google will be able to index the site properly


 
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BootNic
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Posts: n/a
 
      05-11-2010
On Mon, 10 May 2010 07:53:21 +0200
Alfred Molon <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> In article <(E-Mail Removed)-september.org>,
> BootNic says...
>> http://bootnic.bounceme.net/Temporar...k.php<br /> >>

>
> Interesting. Does that also work if the thumbnails do not all
> have the same width?


A trick question yes?

I don't even want to take a guess at what "work" would mean.

If the question is can variable with images be used. Yes.

The problem with one of the galleries I looked at would be that there
does not seem to be any standard size to the images at all. It would
make it much easier to accomplish if there were some sort of standard
sizes to the images, that is not saying they can't be different sizes,
but they should at least be limited in say 3 widths.

An example would be:
http://bootnicredirect.bounceme.net/ex0004

NOTE: I did not bother to add support for IE 6/7 or older mozilla
browsers. CSS3 selector support required for the above example. This is
not to say that the extra support can't be added.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (GNU/Linux)

iEYEARECAAYFAkvo2/sACgkQmo2774GZ7qn67QCg19jf3AX1lh7zWxzKldIrGZ/2
qz0AoO+QDf+HG57cd0ty+uPE16wPjsaP
=RO5+
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

 
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rf
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Posts: n/a
 
      05-11-2010

"Jenn" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:hsalpc$4cn$(E-Mail Removed)-september.org...
>
> "Jonathan N. Little" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:hsakrv$ssv$(E-Mail Removed)-september.org...
>> Jenn wrote:
>>> "rf"<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>> news:y84Gn.24098$(E-Mail Removed)...

>>
>>>> Hint: the single most important visitor to your site does not have
>>>> javascript enabled.
>>>
>>>
>>> Do you know anyone who disables javascript on purpose? FWIW.. most
>>> people
>>> have no idea how to do that, let alone would disable js unless they are
>>> just
>>> specifically looking to do so.. and then, such people would know how to
>>> turn
>>> it back on.

>>
>> You missed the hint! The Google spider does not have javascript enable.
>>

>
>
> so? does that mean you don't put any javascript on a website? No.


No it does not mean that at all. It means that you use javascript to
*enhance what is already there*.

Those thumbnails should be links and they should be coded in the page using
vanilla HTML a elements. That way google can follow them.

It's fine, once the page actually works, to jazz it up with a bit of
javascript but you most definately should *not* use javascript to "write"
content into the page.

The most absurdly stupid thing I've ever seen was a site that used flash for
its primary navigation. Google saw the first page and that was it. When I
pointed this out to the sites owner her eyes glazed over until I showed her
exactly which page (one, index.html) was in googles database, whereupon she
tore strips of her "web designer". A lot of those javascript dropdown menus
(and many of them come from dynamicdrive) behave like this as well. Google
simply can not index anthing past the first page.


 
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Jenn
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      05-11-2010

"rf" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:3X4Gn.24107$(E-Mail Removed)...
>
>>>> Ideas:
>>>> http://snipurl.com/w4xqb
>>>>
>>>> http://www.dynamicdrive.com/dynamici...photoalbum.htm
>>>
>>> which, like just about everything at dynamicdrive, fails miserably if
>>> Javascript is disabled. The thumbnails are not even *displayed* on that
>>> page without Javascript, although, stupidly, the credits for them are
>>>
>>>
>>> Hint: the single most important visitor to your site does not have
>>> javascript enabled.

>>
>>
>> Do you know anyone who disables javascript on purpose? FWIW.. most
>> people have no idea how to do that, let alone would disable js unless
>> they are just specifically looking to do so.. and then, such people would
>> know how to turn it back on.
>>
>> The problem I have with all this stuff is that there is no code that will
>> be perfect to work in every scenario for every browser and every viewer
>> that hits a page. If someone disables javascript on a page that uses it,
>> then it's too bad for them. If they want to view the page.. let them
>> enable javascript.



> It's not people who I am concerned with. It's that most important visitor
> mentioned above. The search engine bot.
>
> If you use javascript to insert content (eg. images) onto a page, as the
> page you mention above appears to do, then google will never see that
> content.
>
> Besides, what that page does is a simple exercise to code in a fully cross
> browser mannar, and also in a mannar that degrades gracefully in the
> absense of javascript, so google will be able to index the site properly



the page was a suggestion or an idea... use it .. don't use it ... it
doesn't matter to me either way. A person can keep trying to get the
perfect page and never get the page working so anyone can appreciate it, or
you can do something now and get the page up in a timely manner. If all
someone wants to do is code for the google bot, I imagine there are other
ways to do that and still use some of those ideas on dynamic drive. Why
re-invent the wheel? I don't understand why it's so difficult to get a page
going that will work for a great many people and the browsers they use...
but might not work perfect for a small number of people. I don't think it's
possible to have a perfect website and perfect code and the site look nice
all at the same time with everything sheer perfection. It doesn't exist.
--
Jenn (from Oklahoma)


 
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Jenn
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      05-11-2010

"rf" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:u55Gn.24108$(E-Mail Removed)...
>
> "Jenn" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:hsalpc$4cn$(E-Mail Removed)-september.org...
>>
>> "Jonathan N. Little" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> news:hsakrv$ssv$(E-Mail Removed)-september.org...
>>> Jenn wrote:
>>>> "rf"<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>>> news:y84Gn.24098$(E-Mail Removed)...
>>>
>>>>> Hint: the single most important visitor to your site does not have
>>>>> javascript enabled.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Do you know anyone who disables javascript on purpose? FWIW.. most
>>>> people
>>>> have no idea how to do that, let alone would disable js unless they are
>>>> just
>>>> specifically looking to do so.. and then, such people would know how to
>>>> turn
>>>> it back on.
>>>
>>> You missed the hint! The Google spider does not have javascript enable.


>> so? does that mean you don't put any javascript on a website? No.



> No it does not mean that at all. It means that you use javascript to
> *enhance what is already there*.
>
> Those thumbnails should be links and they should be coded in the page
> using vanilla HTML a elements. That way google can follow them.
>
> It's fine, once the page actually works, to jazz it up with a bit of
> javascript but you most definately should *not* use javascript to "write"
> content into the page.
>
> The most absurdly stupid thing I've ever seen was a site that used flash
> for its primary navigation. Google saw the first page and that was it.
> When I pointed this out to the sites owner her eyes glazed over until I
> showed her exactly which page (one, index.html) was in googles database,
> whereupon she tore strips of her "web designer". A lot of those javascript
> dropdown menus (and many of them come from dynamicdrive) behave like this
> as well. Google simply can not index anthing past the first page.



Thus far I've seen many people make suggestions as to how to do that page
for the photos, and no one has an answer and nothing has worked that anyone
else has suggested. I'm beginning to think all this talk about perfect pages
is just smoke in the wind. How long should it take to find a solution? Do
this.. don't do that.. if you do that it won't work if you resize the font
... if you do the other thing it won't work in such and such browser. You
could take weeks only to find out there is no perfect solution. How is
doing it your way better, or faster, or improved in any way or how I would
do it if you can't even agree on a solution that will be perfect? It's kind
of frustrating to watch someone ask a question and there be no solution at
all.
--
Jenn (from Oklahoma)


 
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Adrienne Boswell
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Posts: n/a
 
      05-11-2010
Gazing into my crystal ball I observed "Jenn"
<(E-Mail Removed)> writing in
news:hsalpc$4cn$(E-Mail Removed)-september.org:

>
> "Jonathan N. Little" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:hsakrv$ssv$(E-Mail Removed)-september.org...
>> Jenn wrote:
>>> "rf"<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>> news:y84Gn.24098$(E-Mail Removed)...

>>
>>>> Hint: the single most important visitor to your site does not have
>>>> javascript enabled.
>>>
>>>
>>> Do you know anyone who disables javascript on purpose? FWIW.. most
>>> people
>>> have no idea how to do that, let alone would disable js unless they
>>> are just
>>> specifically looking to do so.. and then, such people would know how
>>> to turn
>>> it back on.

>>
>> You missed the hint! The Google spider does not have javascript
>> enable.
>>

>
>
> so? does that mean you don't put any javascript on a website? No.


It means that you don't use JavaScript for anything vital like
navigation. If you can still use the page with javascript disabled,
you're fine.

--
Adrienne Boswell at Home
Arbpen Web Site Design Services
http://www.cavalcade-of-coding.info
Please respond to the group so others can share

 
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rf
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      05-11-2010

"Jenn" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:hsaml6$89m$(E-Mail Removed)-september.org...
>
> "rf" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:3X4Gn.24107$(E-Mail Removed)...
>>
>>>>> Ideas:
>>>>> http://snipurl.com/w4xqb
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.dynamicdrive.com/dynamici...photoalbum.htm
>>>>
>>>> which, like just about everything at dynamicdrive, fails miserably if
>>>> Javascript is disabled. The thumbnails are not even *displayed* on that
>>>> page without Javascript, although, stupidly, the credits for them are
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hint: the single most important visitor to your site does not have
>>>> javascript enabled.
>>>
>>>
>>> Do you know anyone who disables javascript on purpose? FWIW.. most
>>> people have no idea how to do that, let alone would disable js unless
>>> they are just specifically looking to do so.. and then, such people
>>> would know how to turn it back on.
>>>
>>> The problem I have with all this stuff is that there is no code that
>>> will be perfect to work in every scenario for every browser and every
>>> viewer that hits a page. If someone disables javascript on a page that
>>> uses it, then it's too bad for them. If they want to view the page.. let
>>> them enable javascript.

>
>
>> It's not people who I am concerned with. It's that most important visitor
>> mentioned above. The search engine bot.
>>
>> If you use javascript to insert content (eg. images) onto a page, as the
>> page you mention above appears to do, then google will never see that
>> content.
>>
>> Besides, what that page does is a simple exercise to code in a fully
>> cross browser mannar, and also in a mannar that degrades gracefully in
>> the absense of javascript, so google will be able to index the site
>> properly

>
>
> the page was a suggestion or an idea... use it .. don't use it ... it
> doesn't matter to me either way. A person can keep trying to get the
> perfect page and never get the page working so anyone can appreciate it,
> or you can do something now and get the page up in a timely manner. If
> all someone wants to do is code for the google bot, I imagine there are
> other ways to do that and still use some of those ideas on dynamic drive.
> Why re-invent the wheel? I don't understand why it's so difficult to get
> a page going that will work for a great many people and the browsers they
> use... but might not work perfect for a small number of people. I don't
> think it's possible to have a perfect website and perfect code and the
> site look nice all at the same time with everything sheer perfection. It
> doesn't exist.


Yes Jenn, it does.

A page with zero HTML errors. A page with zero CSS errors. A page with zero
Javascript errors. A page that will display correctly for all current and
future browsers including the one in next years telephone and will degrade
gracefully for all past browsers all the way back to lynx. And a page that
is also asthetically pleasing and conveys the content in exactly the mannar
for which it was designed.

Such pages do exist. People are creating them all the time. It is not easy
do to but it is not very hard either. I created one just the other day.

But it is true that these pages are a bit rarer than all the hundreds of
millions of junk pages out there, including many of the junk scripts from
dynamicdrive.


 
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rf
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Posts: n/a
 
      05-11-2010

"Jenn" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:hsan64$a15$(E-Mail Removed)-september.org...
>
> "rf" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:u55Gn.24108$(E-Mail Removed)...
>>
>> "Jenn" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> news:hsalpc$4cn$(E-Mail Removed)-september.org...
>>>
>>> "Jonathan N. Little" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>> news:hsakrv$ssv$(E-Mail Removed)-september.org...
>>>> Jenn wrote:
>>>>> "rf"<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>>>> news:y84Gn.24098$(E-Mail Removed)...
>>>>
>>>>>> Hint: the single most important visitor to your site does not have
>>>>>> javascript enabled.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Do you know anyone who disables javascript on purpose? FWIW.. most
>>>>> people
>>>>> have no idea how to do that, let alone would disable js unless they
>>>>> are just
>>>>> specifically looking to do so.. and then, such people would know how
>>>>> to turn
>>>>> it back on.
>>>>
>>>> You missed the hint! The Google spider does not have javascript enable.

>
>>> so? does that mean you don't put any javascript on a website? No.

>
>
>> No it does not mean that at all. It means that you use javascript to
>> *enhance what is already there*.
>>
>> Those thumbnails should be links and they should be coded in the page
>> using vanilla HTML a elements. That way google can follow them.
>>
>> It's fine, once the page actually works, to jazz it up with a bit of
>> javascript but you most definately should *not* use javascript to "write"
>> content into the page.
>>
>> The most absurdly stupid thing I've ever seen was a site that used flash
>> for its primary navigation. Google saw the first page and that was it.
>> When I pointed this out to the sites owner her eyes glazed over until I
>> showed her exactly which page (one, index.html) was in googles database,
>> whereupon she tore strips of her "web designer". A lot of those
>> javascript dropdown menus (and many of them come from dynamicdrive)
>> behave like this as well. Google simply can not index anthing past the
>> first page.

>
>
> Thus far I've seen many people make suggestions as to how to do that page
> for the photos, and no one has an answer and nothing has worked that
> anyone else has suggested. I'm beginning to think all this talk about
> perfect pages is just smoke in the wind. How long should it take to find
> a solution? Do this.. don't do that.. if you do that it won't work if you
> resize the font .. if you do the other thing it won't work in such and
> such browser. You could take weeks only to find out there is no perfect
> solution. How is doing it your way better, or faster, or improved in any
> way or how I would do it if you can't even agree on a solution that will
> be perfect? It's kind of frustrating to watch someone ask a question and
> there be no solution at all.



http://www.neredbojias.org/cgalx.html seems to me to be a pretty good stab
at it


 
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