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Do you suggest me using IDE when I'm learning JAVA? because I'm about
to using Eclipse when I'm learning JAVA? Did you using IDE while/when
are a beginner?

On 4/27/2010 9:27 AM, Clarence Blumstein wrote:
> Do you suggest me using IDE when I'm learning JAVA? because I'm about
> to using Eclipse when I'm learning JAVA? Did you using IDE while/when
> are a beginner?

Can't speak for others, but I wrote my early Java with an
ordinary code editor, one I was already familiar with. That way,
I could concentrate on learning Java rather than on learning how
to operate the IDE. YMMV.

--
Eric Sosman
lid

Clarence Blumstein wrote:
> Do you suggest me using IDE when I'm learning JAVA? because I'm about
> to using Eclipse when I'm learning JAVA? Did you using IDE while/when
> are a beginner?

Opinions vary. An IDE can be both a blessing and a curse to the
student. It's a blessing because it lets you get productive earlier.
It's a curse because it hides some information and can leave you
wondering how and why things work. Or don't.

I suggest using an IDE sometimes and using only the command line
(including Ant) other times. Each will then illuminate the other and
you will grow up to be ambidextrous with respect to using an IDE or
not.

Frequently when I develop a project I maintain the Ant build.xml
manually and alternate between IDE builds and command-line builds to
ensure that both work equally well.

--
Lew

Clarence Blumstein <> writes:
>Do you suggest me using IDE when I'm learning JAVA?

No, when you are learning Java, I would never
dare to disturb you by suggesting an IDE!

"Clarence Blumstein" <> wrote in message
news:d0c1f722-4bec-4728-81a2-...
> Do you suggest me using IDE when I'm learning JAVA? because I'm about
> to using Eclipse when I'm learning JAVA? Did you using IDE while/when
> are a beginner?

if you are new to programming in general, an IDE can help, as they provide a
lot of little things which can be helpful.

but, for Java in particular, the IDE is not particularly important, and one
can easily write code in plain text editors if they want. it depends a lot
on personal preferences and experience.


as for myself, well, I didn't start out with Java (it didn't really exist
yet).
I used IDEs some (TurboC / BorlandC), but in those days it didn't help much
(glorified text editor...), and eventually I just ended up managing files
manually via the DOS-prompt (and using "MS Edit").

anymore, I typically just do coding (in general) via the mix of Notepad,
Explorer, and a command prompt (and typically GNU Make for building). not
that there is anything noble about this, only that this approach just better
suits my uses and personal experience (there are pros and cons to IDEs).

my projects are also largish and mixed language (and largely C), and I use
some amount of "custom tooling", which may also be a factor, ...

(there are no uniformly "better" options in all this, only endless numbers
of costs and benefits).


but, for learning, an IDE is likely to be somewhat helpful, as it provides a
lot of things which could be otherwise awkward to do by hand.


or such...

Clarence Blumstein wrote:
> Do you suggest me using IDE when I'm learning JAVA? because I'm about
> to using Eclipse when I'm learning JAVA? Did you using IDE while/when
> are a beginner?


Yes, I do. Learning to use an IDE is part of learning how to program.
There are lots of little time saving enhancements with an IDE that you
should learn, and those enhancements will help you learn faster as well
as be more productive later in your profession. It's win-win.

A few years ago I would have said "no, just use a text editor" like
several others here, but these days an IDE is so valuable that it should
be part of your basic learning. (A few years ago, you would have used
shell scripting too as part of your basic learning, because the shell
tools were so important to being productive as a programmer. My first
class at university for C was titled "C and the Unix Shell.")

Eventually, you should learn the command line tools, but learning the
command line tools (and Ant) is different than entering code, and the
latter is what you will be mostly doing as you learn. An IDE is the
best tool to help you enter code.

Clarence Blumstein <> wrote:

>Do you suggest me using IDE when I'm learning JAVA? because I'm about
>to using Eclipse when I'm learning JAVA? Did you using IDE while/when
>are a beginner?

An emphatic yes! Your first step should be to compile and run the
usual "Hello World" application without using an IDE. After that an
IDE provides a tutor that looks over your shoulder as you write and
test your programs. I would suggest Netbeans instead of Eclipse as a
tutor. On the other hand, Eclipse and its derivatives are far more
popular than Netbeans so if you are looking for a job, Eclipse
experience may be more valuable.

On Tue, 27 Apr 2010, Clarence Blumstein wrote:

> Do you suggest me using IDE when I'm learning JAVA?

No. You have enough to learn without also having to master an IDE.

You should definitely have a good programmer's editor, though. On Windows,
Notepad2, Notepad++, or EditPad Lite. On OS X, TextWrangler. On unix with
GNOME, gedit. On unix with KDE, i have yet to find one. jEdit is in java,
so that will work on any platform.

Basically, what you want is a plain text editor that does auto-indentation
and line numbering (or at least a jump-to-line command). You'll go
completely mad without those.

On top of that, syntax highlighting is nice, structure awareness (so you
get an outline or a dropdown menu of the methods in a class which you can
jump to) is nice, fancy editing shortcuts (for things like deleting the
whole current line, moving the selected lines up or down in the file,
indenting or outdenting the selected lines, etc) are nice.

Things you don't want now are autocompletion (because you won't learn the
API), automated compilation (because you won't learn the compiler), and
any enforced notions of project setup (because you'll have to struggle
with it for ages before you can write a single line of code, and even when
you get it working, you won't learn how to set up a project).

> because I'm about to using Eclipse when I'm learning JAVA?

Good luck.

> Did you using IDE while/when are a beginner?

No.

tom

--
Get my pies out of the oven!

On Tue, 27 Apr 2010, Stefan Ram wrote:

> Clarence Blumstein <> writes:
>> Do you suggest me using IDE when I'm learning JAVA?
>
> No, when you are learning Java, I would never
> dare to disturb you by suggesting an IDE!



tom

--
Get my pies out of the oven!

On Tue, 27 Apr 2010, cr88192 wrote:

> anymore, I typically just do coding (in general) via the mix of Notepad,
> Explorer, and a command prompt (and typically GNU Make for building).
> not that there is anything noble about this, only that this approach
> just better suits my uses and personal experience (there are pros and
> cons to IDEs).
>
> my projects are also largish and mixed language (and largely C), and I
> use some amount of "custom tooling", which may also be a factor, ...

Oh, it's *all about* the custom tooling.

When i was younger, i used to maintain a store of useful classes and
functions, a sort of personal subroutine library i could apply to
different projects. As i got older, i stopped; i learned to be able to do
the things it could do using the standard library or easily available
third-party libraries, or just got to the point where i could whip them up
from scratch every time without difficulty. But now, what i have is a
growing collection of custom tooling - scripts for this, templates for
that, ant jobs for the other. I wonder if i'll outgrow that too, and if
so, what will come next?

tom

--
Get my pies out of the oven!