«

On 02 May 2010, "Jonathan N. Little" <> wrote:

> Jenn wrote:
>> All that counts is that the page works and it's what the customer
>> wants. I say screw the validators!
>
> Hmmm, "works: eh? Validation isn't everything, but it certainly
> reduces putting out wildfires as a client calls up in a panic, "Our
> site's order form doesn't work for customers with X browser!"

Of course it doesn't. If you want X-rated you have to pay for X-rated!

--
Neredbojias

http://www.neredbojias.org/
http://www.neredbojias.net/

Neredbojias wrote:
> On 02 May 2010, "Jonathan N. Little"<> wrote:
>
>> Jenn wrote:
>>> All that counts is that the page works and it's what the customer
>>> wants. I say screw the validators!
>>
>> Hmmm, "works: eh? Validation isn't everything, but it certainly
>> reduces putting out wildfires as a client calls up in a panic, "Our
>> site's order form doesn't work for customers with X browser!"
>
> Of course it doesn't. If you want X-rated you have to pay for X-rated!
>

Your mind is *always* in the same place!

--
Take care,

Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com

On 02 May 2010, "Jonathan N. Little" <> wrote:

> Neredbojias wrote:
>> On 02 May 2010, "Jonathan N. Little"<> wrote:
>>
>>> Jenn wrote:
>>>> All that counts is that the page works and it's what the customer
>>>> wants. I say screw the validators!
>>>
>>> Hmmm, "works: eh? Validation isn't everything, but it certainly
>>> reduces putting out wildfires as a client calls up in a panic, "Our
>>> site's order form doesn't work for customers with X browser!"
>>
>> Of course it doesn't. If you want X-rated you have to pay for
>> X-rated!
>>
>
> Your mind is *always* in the same place!

Ah, well, it's really the fault of this html stuff. Everytime I think
about all them peoples playing with all them elements, a funny feeling
kinda evolves inside me. I consider myself a very good
marker-upper and all but if I let myself daydream during work, I'm
bound to pull a few boners just like anybody else. Hell, whaddya gonna
do?

--
Neredbojias

http://www.neredbojias.org/
http://www.neredbojias.net/

"dorayme" <> wrote in message
news:dorayme-...
> In article <hrir3r$tk0$>,
> "Jenn" <> wrote:
>
>> "Beauregard T. Shagnasty" <> wrote in message
>> news:hridj0$3fg$...
>> > Jenn wrote:
>> >
>> >> "Lewis" wrote:
>> >>> Jenn wrote:
>> >>>> That's not just CSS tho ... it also has references to rss and xml
>> >>>
>> >>> The only thing that changes between the pages is the css that is
>> >>> loaded.
>> >>
>> >> Well ... Unless I can study each css file and compare them, it's not
>> >> going to make any sense to me. I don't speak CSS, but I can read it.
>> >> I can get the same results with regular html, images, and tables.
>>
>>
>> > You keep missing the point. With a CSS-designed site, you can change
>> > the
>> > complete design of the entire site by making some minor edits to just
>> > one file. With your tables-for-layout pages, you need to edit nearly
>> > everything for every single page of the whole site.
>>
>>
>> I'm not missing the point. I work on one gigantic website that was built
>> with style sheets. It's a literal nightmare trying to find out which
>> style
>> sheet the correct class is on .. let alone remembering all the classes
>> and
>> measurements that people like to put on sites like that. It's a
>> nightmare
>> to change anything on that site. Now, if I have to change code I wrote
>> myself, it's commented out and I can go straight to where it's at.. and
>> often I just use *includes* and change that one file to get the edit
>> done.
>> MUCH quicker and easier than trying to figure out 10 styles sheets that
>> were
>> written by a committee and then trying to edit those. I hate sites built
>> soley with style sheets. LOL


> Why would you imagine the worst possible case of a nightmare
> website made by many other people when what what you are being
> asked to compare is where other things are equal. Ever tried
> working with some nightmare websites made by others with table
> layout? You have a gift for misunderstanding. I should know, I
> have one too!

yes.. I've worked on all sorts of websites fixing other peoples errors and
re-designing sites too. I kind of like it... the challenge part, that is.


--
Jenn (from Oklahoma)

"Jonathan N. Little" <> wrote in message
news:hrjvlu$u0c$...
> Jenn wrote:
>> "Beauregard T. Shagnasty"<> wrote in message
>> news:hridj0$3fg$...
>>> Jenn wrote:
>
>
>>> Let's say the 100 pages have a footer (copyright, contact us, usual
>>> stuff). Client decides he wants it aligned to the right instead of
>>> centered.
>>
>> again ... edit the footer include.
>>
>>> Repeat You/Me above. I would just change "text-align: center" to
>>> "text-align: right" once in the #footer CSS and I'm done. How about you?
>>
>> yep .. on the *include* file LOL
>>
>
> Not if (I'll use R1C1 convention here) the bit of footer info is in cell
> 4,3 and now needs to be in 4,1! Or the site is a nested table monstrosity
> with row and column spans and not the new company logo is a different
> shape!!!
>


No problemo ... resize the company logo to fit! LOL
--
Jenn (from Oklahoma)

"Neredbojias" <> wrote in message
news: .net...
> On 01 May 2010, "Jenn" <> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>> "Neredbojias" <> wrote in message
>> news: .net...
>>> On 30 Apr 2010, "Jenn" <> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Neredbojias" <> wrote in message
>>>> news: .net...
>>>>> On 30 Apr 2010, "Jenn" <> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Lewis" <> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:g.kreme-...
>>>>>>> In article <>,
>>>>>>> sheldonlg <sheldonlg> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 4/29/2010 5:02 PM, Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I ran into so many more problems with this formulation (such as
>>>>>>>> major problems when you narrowed the page and differences
>>>>>>>> between IE and Firefox) that I spoke to the boss. I convinced
>>>>>>>> him to use tables. He wanted to reserve the use of tables to
>>>>>>>> only when there is actual table of data being presented and not
>>>>>>>> for formatting purposes. Thankfully, he saw that a week of
>>>>>>>> effort was not worth it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>> That is what tables are FOR, presenting tabular data. They
>>>>>>> should never be used for formatting.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> Why? I use tables all the time in order to get a page to format
>>>>>> exactly like I want it to format.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Actually, in some cases I use tables for formatting and not for
>>>>> "tabular data", and the usage is quite valid in the broadest
>>>>> meaning of the word. Don't listen to the pedants but alternate
>>>>> means *do* exist for many of the things lotsa people misuse tables
>>>>> for.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I use tables for everything that requires formatting a website.
>>>> That's the way it was done from the time I ever coded my first
>>>> website. It's so simple to use them and you can do just about
>>>> anything with them.
>>>
>>> Well, there are many things that can be done simpler with css once
>>> you get familiar with it. Tables are awkward sometimes. Despite
>>> the babble here, css really has 2 major parts: styling, like color,
>>> fonts, and say opacity, and layout such as position
>>> (static/absolute/fixed), floats, and "layering": ie. z-index or
>>> ordering. I personally don't condemn the table-user but certain
>>> methods *are* easier with css (-when you learn it.) However, to be
>>> perfectly honest, it does sound like you might be from Oklahoma.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Oh.. don't get me wrong.. I do use CSS for styling, and I've used it
>> for layering/z-index type stuff too, and even navigation, but I still
>> love using the table because it is simple and you don't have to
>> remember a hundred classes and you can actually see what you're
>> doing. I'm sure CSS has it's believers, but I consider myself to be
>> somewhere in the middle and will use whichever method that makes the
>> most sense to me for the task I need to get done.
>
> That's logical, and I think I do pretty much the same. It's been
> awhile, though, since I've used tables for anything besides that
> vertical middling thang but I'm about to come out with a page that has
> more of 'em than flies around grandma's ass! It's going to be the
> greatest coup since Virgil gave his leg a subconscious! Will report
> back soon...
>


well.. I'd like to see that site if you don't mind ... just remember..
tables are your friend... tables are your friend .. keep reciting
that........ LOL
--
Jenn (from Oklahoma)

In article <hrlfhu$5li$>,
"Jenn" <> wrote:

>
> "dorayme" <> wrote in message

> > Why would you imagine the worst possible case of a nightmare
> > website made by many other people when what what you are being
> > asked to compare is where other things are equal. Ever tried
> > working with some nightmare websites made by others with table
> > layout? You have a gift for misunderstanding. I should know, I
> > have one too!
>
> yes.. I've worked on all sorts of websites fixing other peoples errors and
> re-designing sites too. I kind of like it... the challenge part, that is.

Now you are showing off your gift proudly. I admire you.

--
dorayme

In article <>,
Ed Mullen <> wrote:

> Jenn wrote:

> > well.. I'd like to see that site if you don't mind ... just remember..
> > tables are your friend... tables are your friend .. keep reciting
> > that........ LOL
>
> I wouild love to see some URLs of sites you have built using tables for
> layout.

There can be some very nice sites built with table layout. But
the real issue with our friend from Oklahoma is the black and
white inflexibility of his view. When it comes down to particular
aims like using up screenspace to the max, fluid design is the
only way to go and he has alrady been challenged to say how he
handles this with tables.

There is a lot of talk but no action and this surprises me.
Perhaps Oklahomans are different to Arizonians who are more
action than talk (witness Deputy Sherif Coogan (Clint Eastwood)
in Coogan's Bluff)

--
dorayme

"Ed Mullen" <> wrote in message
news:...
> dorayme wrote:
>> In article<>,
>> Ed Mullen<> wrote:
>>
>>> Jenn wrote:
>>
>>>> well.. I'd like to see that site if you don't mind ... just remember..
>>>> tables are your friend... tables are your friend .. keep reciting
>>>> that........ LOL
>>>
>>> I wouild love to see some URLs of sites you have built using tables for
>>> layout.
>>
>> There can be some very nice sites built with table layout. But
>> the real issue with our friend from Oklahoma is the black and
>> white inflexibility of his view. When it comes down to particular
>> aims like using up screenspace to the max, fluid design is the
>> only way to go and he has alrady been challenged to say how he
>> handles this with tables.
>>
>> There is a lot of talk but no action and this surprises me.
>> Perhaps Oklahomans are different to Arizonians who are more
>> action than talk (witness Deputy Sherif Coogan (Clint Eastwood)
>> in Coogan's Bluff)
>>
>
> 1. I do think Jenn is female but, what the hell do I know?

last time I looked I was still a female.. LOL No plans on changing
it.......

> 2. I have no particular objection to table layouts except for what a
> nuisance they are.

well.. I just LOVE tables.. not sure why, really .. just enjoy coding them.

> 3. She's not given any concrete examples of her work or sites to support
> her statements. Which leads me to suspect she may be just trolling for
> effect. For someone with such lengthy purported experience she is
> profoundly out of touch with current/recent (like, what? ... the last ten
> years?) thinking on these topics.
>
> On the other hand, hell, it's just Web site design! As a friend of mine
> used to say: "It ain't brain surgery. Nobody's gonna die if we screw
> up."

awe.. I'm really kind of shy about my sites especially since most people
here like to code everything in CSS. This is my favorite site I designed
and built. http://cdkdistribution(dot)com [replace the dot with .] The
owners said I had a month and I could do anything I wanted to as far as
building a site goes for them... they just had two requirements (besides the
content they provided)... it had to showcase their products, and it had to
be ready by their grand opening date. I had to go hunting for their content,
tho. They gave me a list of their products and distributors.. I had to
gather the info... design the site, edit any images, and create any flash.
I suppose it's not the greatest or fanciest site compared to what some of
you guys have done, tho. [is nervous now.....]


--
Jenn (from Oklahoma)

"dorayme" <> wrote in message
news:dorayme-...
> In article <hrlfhu$5li$>,
> "Jenn" <> wrote:
>
>>
>> "dorayme" <> wrote in message
>
>> > Why would you imagine the worst possible case of a nightmare
>> > website made by many other people when what what you are being
>> > asked to compare is where other things are equal. Ever tried
>> > working with some nightmare websites made by others with table
>> > layout? You have a gift for misunderstanding. I should know, I
>> > have one too!
>>
>> yes.. I've worked on all sorts of websites fixing other peoples errors
>> and
>> re-designing sites too. I kind of like it... the challenge part, that
>> is.
>
> Now you are showing off your gift proudly. I admire you.
>


actually, I'm kind of nervous here and don't want to say the wrong thing.
Ya'll have been such nice people. I don't want to trip and knock over
someones favorite lamp! LOL
--
Jenn (from Oklahoma)