«

I just don't think so.

The local Newbolds shop is closing down and a main sales man at Harvey
Normans had to do some moon lighting to get a decent wage.


Also the local TV repair shop is also closing down.



National is just full of it.

On Mar 26, 6:01*pm, Frank Williams <FWilli...@happy.com.ru> wrote:
> I just don't think so.
>
> The local Newbolds shop is closing down and a *main sales man at Harvey
> Normans had to do some moon lighting to get a decent wage.
>
> Also the local TV repair shop is also closing down.
>
> National is just full of it.

I was John Key's fan on Facebook for about 5 hours. That's all the
bullshit I could stand.

Frank Williams wrote:

>
>
> I just don't think so.
>
> The local Newbolds shop is closing down and a main sales man at Harvey
> Normans had to do some moon lighting to get a decent wage.
>
>
> Also the local TV repair shop is also closing down.
>
>
>
> National is just full of it.

Debt.

People were told by the rightwing to borrow, the economy works
if you borrow and here is their mates number to call
to get a loan.

Then they take the debt to the financial market, leverage
off the value to go out and lend more money.

Eventually the amount of call of future value, money, could
never be paid off. All those people could not earn enough
to pay their mortgages, collectively there weren't enough
money earning opportunities. So the credit markets seized
up.

Unless and until governments (and private debt) can create
jobs, cause inflation, or default on the debt, most likely
all of three to some degree. There will be stagnation
where companies know they are selling at a loss, because
eventually the value of the money must increase (well
unless they default and go out of business). So at the
moment those companies doing business are subsidizing
companies that should be shut up and the debts defaulted on.

Just like Japan, where for years banks would give
zero interest loans to businesses.

But if that wasn't enough. Petrol will immediate jump
to over $100 a barrel if the economy starts up again.
How does a business know it can even stay in business
when the future isn't known. If you have a business
next to a bus station selling vegies then you are probably
ok, even laughing, but if you are on the outskirts selling
furniture, fools on you. But you'll have no numbers to
know which way.

Then there is the aging crisis, which NZ is on the extreme
end of, with so many retirees. We need to let people
work for longer, but this means when they are younger they
need more time off, because they won't have a retirement,
or one that is going to much worth having.

Third is the environment, we can't keep turning top
soil into food and then burying it.

So we need a new economy, and if you look at Japan
they've been in their depression for ten years now.

"Frank Williams" <> wrote in message
news:...
>
> ... a main sales man at Harvey Normans had to do some
> moon lighting to get a decent wage.

Presumably that means he's a commision-based salesman, in which case he
should get a proper job. Commission-based salesman are always just greedy,
selfish idiots simply trying to shove you into the most expensive thing they
can con you into buying, and usually know nothing about what they're selling
because one week they're selling shoes, the next computer, the next cars,
.... There's a good reason people hate them, especially in expensive items
like real estate and car sales.

In article <4bad26ff$>, vitw <> wrote:

> On Sat, 27 Mar 2010 09:44:13 +1200, Your Name wrote:
>
> > Presumably that means he's a commision-based salesman, in which case he
> > should get a proper job. Commission-based salesman are always just
> > greedy, selfish idiots simply trying to shove you into the most
> > expensive thing they can con you into buying, and usually know nothing
> > about what they're selling because one week they're selling shoes, the
> > next computer, the next cars, ... There's a good reason people hate
> > them, especially in expensive items like real estate and car sales.
>
> Would be interesting if commission-only employment were outlawed, so that
> employers had to pay at least a minimum wage.

It should definitely be outlawed, but of course it won't be because greedy
sales "big businesses" would then have to pay their staff for working even
if they don't sell anything (like any normal business!), and of course
that would cut into greedy management pay packets.

Somewhere on teh intarwebs Your Name wrote:
> "Frank Williams" <> wrote in message
> news:...
>>
>> ... a main sales man at Harvey Normans had to do some
>> moon lighting to get a decent wage.
>
> Presumably that means he's a commision-based salesman, in which case
> he should get a proper job. Commission-based salesman are always just
> greedy, selfish idiots simply trying to shove you into the most
> expensive thing they can con you into buying, and usually know
> nothing about what they're selling because one week they're selling
> shoes, the next computer, the next cars, ... There's a good reason
> people hate them, especially in expensive items like real estate and
> car sales.

Massive generalisation there. So there is no colour in your world huh?
Everything is black and white.

Perhaps this guy isn't like the commision-based salesmen whom you obviously
hate (and assume that 'people' also hate them). Could that be why he's
having to supplement his income by 'doing some moonlighting'? Perhaps he has
some integrity?

I think that it's a bit off that you basically call this guy an arsehole and
you know nothing about him. Bigoted much?

Lazy thinking (or perhaps no thinking) is so common these days. Tell us some
things about yourself, that we may judge you by the same standards that you
use to judge others.
--
Shaun.

Ticking away the moments that make up a dull day...

On Mar 27, 11:28*am, vitw <nos...@somewhere.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 27 Mar 2010 09:44:13 +1200, Your Name wrote:
> > Presumably that means he's a commision-based salesman, in which case he
> > should get a proper job. Commission-based salesman are always just
> > greedy, selfish idiots simply trying to shove you into the most
> > expensive thing they can con you into buying, and usually know nothing
> > about what they're selling because one week they're selling shoes, the
> > next computer, the next cars, ... There's a good reason people hate
> > them, especially in expensive items like real estate and car sales.
>
> Would be interesting if commission-only employment were outlawed, so that
> employers had to pay at least a minimum wage.

There was an employment law case over this against Harvey Norman.
Electronics / whiteware is run fairly separately from furniture. The
head of the whiteware / electronics department (if not the furniture
department too), is not only a 'commission salesperson' but is
configured as a small business using a company and a trust. It is set
up to Harvey Norman's template and Harvey Norman's back office
provides the accountancy service for it. The manager is in effect
'employed at will' (the holy grail of Business Round Table etc) and a
mediocre performing manager was forcibly transferred to another branch
to be under closer supervision and unsuccessfully took Harvey Norman
to the employment court.

Commission only employment is I think effectively outlawed, but in the
simplest case this could be overcome by paying the minimum wage for a
40 hour week with commissions on top.

Restrictions on such arrangements while protecting potentially
vulnerable employees would be an unfair restriction on people who
consider they have what it takes to earn more through business or free
lance arrangements. This would apply to small businesses,
peofessionals, real estate salespeople, opera singers, owner-drivers,
Harvey Norman managersetc. It is when things turn sour that such
people then try and claim to be 'employees' and their claims will
generally fail where many of the attributes of an 'employee' are
missing or where it is tightly tied up legally (such as Harvey
Norman). Harvey Norman had to adopt a more complex structure for NZ
than they needed to in Australia. The one significant successful
claim was against 'Three Foot Six Ltd' (the company Peter Jackson set
up specifically to make 'Lord of the Rings'). This was probably
successful because arrangements were probably based on Hollywood
practice which would be in turn be based on Californian and USA law.

On 27/03/2010 6:00 p.m., ~misfit~ wrote:
> Somewhere on teh intarwebs Your Name wrote:
>> "Frank Williams"<> wrote in message
>> news:...
>>>
>>> ... a main sales man at Harvey Normans had to do some
>>> moon lighting to get a decent wage.
>>
>> Presumably that means he's a commision-based salesman, in which case
>> he should get a proper job. Commission-based salesman are always just
>> greedy, selfish idiots simply trying to shove you into the most
>> expensive thing they can con you into buying, and usually know
>> nothing about what they're selling because one week they're selling
>> shoes, the next computer, the next cars, ... There's a good reason
>> people hate them, especially in expensive items like real estate and
>> car sales.
>
> Massive generalisation there. So there is no colour in your world huh?
> Everything is black and white.
>
> Perhaps this guy isn't like the commision-based salesmen whom you obviously
> hate (and assume that 'people' also hate them). Could that be why he's
> having to supplement his income by 'doing some moonlighting'? Perhaps he has
> some integrity?
>
> I think that it's a bit off that you basically call this guy an arsehole and
> you know nothing about him. Bigoted much?
>
> Lazy thinking (or perhaps no thinking) is so common these days. Tell us some
> things about yourself, that we may judge you by the same standards that you
> use to judge others.
well said Shaun. Generalisation indeed, and one that a lot of people are
guilty of.

I worked as a salesman on commission for 8 years. I got paid a lot of
money for doing a difficult job well. My company liked me because I made
money for them. My customers liked me because I helped them achieve
their aims (I was selling to businesses) and because I told the truth
and looked after them well. In the end I gave it away because I had made
a bundle of cash and didn't want to keep working that hard.

As an aside, last time I sold a house I emplyed a commission based real
estate agent who made me (and himself) a whole bucketload of money. I
was very happy because he sold the house for much more than I would
have, and with much less effort from me. As far as I know the people who
bought it were/are happy too - they're still living in it years later.

Selling would have to be one most the most misunderstood roles, mostly
by small minded 'people' who have trouble grasping how things work in
the real world.

grum

"Allistar" <> wrote in message
news ...
> vitw wrote:
>
> > On Sat, 27 Mar 2010 09:44:13 +1200, Your Name wrote:
> >
> >> Presumably that means he's a commision-based salesman, in which case he
> >> should get a proper job. Commission-based salesman are always just
> >> greedy, selfish idiots simply trying to shove you into the most
> >> expensive thing they can con you into buying, and usually know nothing
> >> about what they're selling because one week they're selling shoes, the
> >> next computer, the next cars, ... There's a good reason people hate
> >> them, especially in expensive items like real estate and car sales.
> >
> > Would be interesting if commission-only employment were outlawed, so
that
> > employers had to pay at least a minimum wage.
>
> You make it sound like people are forced into commission based roles. They
> are not. They choose them voluntarily. Why outlaw it?

People can voluntarily choose to buy a gun and shoot you ... should we stop
outlawing that too??