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Re: I'd appreciate some help in understanding how posts propagate.

 
 
Mike Easter
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      03-23-2010
~BD~ wrote:
Subject: I'd appreciate some help in understanding how posts propagate.

I'm going to disregard the twisted way you asked your question.

This (2nd in your examples) GG post:

From: BoaterDave
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 09:54:48 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID:
<(E-Mail Removed)>
References: #(E-Mail Removed)
User-Agent: G2/1.0

.... references (only) an article posted /only/ to a MS group. That
referencing is not proper/correct.

This earlier bt/giga post:

Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 11:33:21 +0000
From: ~BD~
References: <(E-Mail Removed)>
Message-ID: <(E-Mail Removed)>
X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com

.... also references (only) another, different article posted only to a
MS group. (Incidentally) The message it references was posted in
another, different way to that MS group. Your seamonkey/bt referencing
there (earlier) was correct, only one reference.

If your GG message had been properly referenced, it would have reflected
the extensive referencing of the post it replied:

From: "Shenan Stanley"
References: <(E-Mail Removed)>
<(E-Mail Removed)>
<(E-Mail Removed)>
<(E-Mail Removed)>
<(E-Mail Removed)>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ...suddenlink.net 74.192.18.77

But it didn't.

> a *single* thread of the same
> name


The term 'thread' is often used in ambiguous ways.

Generically, thread might mean 'sort', arrange. One can arrange
newsgroup messages by date/chronologically or by subject or by 'thread'
which actually means by reference line 'arrangement'.

Reference line threading provides 'trees' in which all of the messages
can be arranged into 'families' or branches from some earlier message id.

When messages on a 'topic' all have the same subject, they can (also,
alternatively) be 'grouped' or arranged by that subject, thus 'throwing
them all together'. Then or subsequently or additionally, a reader's
software typically (also) 'sub'-arranges that group into a secondary
sorting or arranging, usually by date or chronologically or reverse
chronologically of a particular subject.

Some people prefer to read messages threaded or arranged into trees by
the References line. Some other people prefer to read messages grouped
into a subject but ordered chronologically. The threading/references
line sorting often takes messages out of chronological order to create
the proper references line tree arrangement.

If (references) threading is going to work properly, whatever agent
which is used must properly 'compile' (accumulate) the References line,
which yours did not.


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Mike Easter
 
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Mike Easter
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      03-23-2010
~BD~ wrote:
> Mike Easter wrote:
>
>> If your GG message had been properly referenced, it would have reflected
>> the extensive referencing of the post it replied:


> However ..... I feel I'm no further forward.


You often don't learn - move forward, improve, gain wisdom - very quickly.

> All settings are exactly the same here on my machine for both
> newsgroups. It's the same Sea Monkey 'reading' them and 'grouping' them.


SeaMonkey can thread or not - sort by subject unthreaded which
secondarily sorts chronologically.

> Do you feel that *I* have done something wrong?


Of course. Both of the messages which you reply/crossposted shouldn't
have been so replied -- that is the *most* important thing you did
'wrong'.

Your doing so takes 'advantage' of those who would reply to you and
causes them to quasi-unwillingly post in your same crossposted manner
even tho' those same people would *never* otherwise intentionally
crosspost as you do.

That is because...

There is a natural tendency for most of those who reply to a crossposted
message to not intentionally strip the crossposting because such
stripping has disadvantages to others who would follow a thread.

Crosspost stripping causes forking of the topic's subthreads. However,
*anyone* posting into a group which one doesn't read is much much worse
than crosspost stripping. So, your zany disparate group crossposting
creates a no-win type of dilemma for anyone who would reply to your post
or any others which follow it so crossposted.

So, that is *two* wrongs, because you did that crossposting twice to two
different messages which preceding messages were appropriately posted to
*only* the MS group.

The other incidental thing/s you did wrong was read nntp newsgroup
messages in GG instead of a newsreader and then post into a nntp group
(groups in this case) via GG.

So, altogether that is 4 things you did wrong. 2 x-postings and 2
GG-related behaviors.

In order to investigate how the thread looks to you in SeaMonkey in
alternate views, you should flip it in and out of threaded and in and
out of sort by Subject.


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Mike Easter
 
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Mike Easter
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      03-23-2010
Evan Platt wrote:
> Mike Easter


> I may have to try out the killfile that
> killfiles not only him, but any follow ups to him.


Personally I think all posts by Evan Platt which contain the string
'chuckcar' should disappear. It is exceedingly tiresome to read of your
pathological preoccupation with that persona.

Tbird won't do that type of filtering either - so a tbird user who is
also windows would have to use something like Nfilter/NewsProxy in front
of the tbird and if they were linux they would have to do it some other
way, since nfilter is win not linux.

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Mike Easter
 
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Mike Easter
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      03-23-2010
Evan Platt wrote:
> Mike Easter


>> Personally I think all posts by Evan Platt which contain the string
>> 'chuckcar' should disappear. It is exceedingly tiresome to read of your
>> pathological preoccupation with that persona.

>
> I rarely call him chuckcar. His official name is chucktard.


Yabbut when you reply his handle string *always* appears in the
attribution (in my configuration) whatever you might call him.

> As soon as he stops posting grossly wrong statements, I'll stop
> correcting him.


He is not going to stop posting; you are not going to stop replying to
him. Therefore the discriminating remedy is to filter all of your posts
about him.

Alternatively the quick and dirty method would be to just filter all of
*your* posts. Your anti-chuckcars are considerably more annoying than
anything chuckcar himself has to say.

>> Tbird won't do that type of filtering either - so a tbird user who is
>> also windows

>
> ???


A windows + tbird user would use nfilter as a proxy before tbird. A
linux user would have to add something else to the mix, not nfilter, a
win app which is very handy. Linux would use leafnode, which I've never
tried.

>> would have to use something like Nfilter/NewsProxy in front
>> of the tbird and if they were linux they would have to do it some other
>> way, since nfilter is win not linux.

>
> This is Thunderbird in Fedora.


Leafnode for linux would act like hamster for windows.
http://leafnode.sourceforge.net/


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Mike Easter
 
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Peter Foldes
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      03-23-2010
LOL. You do not forget anything. It is your way of sniffing out people or tying to
trip them up. Do not backtrack you Troll. Maybe at some point Mike will catch on to
you as others did after a while. The whole MVP community knows about you even the
ones that do not post in the groups you frequent. You were (feel proud) the talk one
morning at the Campus during the yearly meeting. David,you are a very unstable
person. This should have already been evident to most if not all that have contact
with you. You are not going to catch any bad guys ( *your claim) in the newsgroups
here or on the MS server newsgroups. If you want to catch some then hack into some
private servers of some foreign groups. You will fill your wishes 100 fold


"~BD~" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Mike Easter wrote:
>> ~BD~ wrote:
>>> Mike Easter wrote:
>>>
>>>> If your GG message had been properly referenced, it would have reflected
>>>> the extensive referencing of the post it replied:

>>
>>> However ..... I feel I'm no further forward.

>>
>> You often don't learn - move forward, improve, gain wisdom - very quickly.

>
> I know. I'm forgetting things faster than learning new!
>
>>> All settings are exactly the same here on my machine for both
>>> newsgroups. It's the same Sea Monkey 'reading' them and 'grouping' them.

>>
>> SeaMonkey can thread or not - sort by subject unthreaded which
>> secondarily sorts chronologically.

>
> I'm aware of how it works.
>
>>> Do you feel that *I* have done something wrong?

>>
>> Of course. Both of the messages which you reply/crossposted shouldn't
>> have been so replied -- that is the *most* important thing you did 'wrong'.

>
> It's all a matter of opinion!
>
>
>> Your doing so takes 'advantage' of those who would reply to you and
>> causes them to quasi-unwillingly post in your same crossposted manner
>> even tho' those same people would *never* otherwise intentionally
>> crosspost as you do.
>>
>> That is because...
>>
>> There is a natural tendency for most of those who reply to a crossposted
>> message to not intentionally strip the crossposting because such
>> stripping has disadvantages to others who would follow a thread.

>
> I suspect that it has more to do with folk not actually noticing ..... or caring!
>
>
>> Crosspost stripping causes forking of the topic's subthreads. However,
>> *anyone* posting into a group which one doesn't read is much much worse
>> than crosspost stripping. So, your zany disparate group crossposting
>> creates a no-win type of dilemma for anyone who would reply to your post
>> or any others which follow it so crossposted.
>>
>> So, that is *two* wrongs, because you did that crossposting twice to two
>> different messages which preceding messages were appropriately posted to
>> *only* the MS group.

>
> In *your* opinion.
>
>
>> The other incidental thing/s you did wrong was read nntp newsgroup
>> messages in GG instead of a newsreader and then post into a nntp group
>> (groups in this case) via GG.

>
> That is how GG works! Hardly my fault.
>
>
>> So, altogether that is 4 things you did wrong. 2 x-postings and 2
>> GG-related behaviors.
>>
>> In order to investigate how the thread looks to you in SeaMonkey in
>> alternate views, you should flip it in and out of threaded and in and
>> out of sort by Subject.

>
> I've done all that. Unsubscribed and subscribed afresh. Played with all the
> threading options and there are still two distinct 'threads' showing.
>
> **
>
> I always value your comments, Mike. Thanks for replying again.
>
> --
> Dave
>
>


 
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Leythos
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      03-24-2010
In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed)lid says...
> That is because...
>
> There is a natural tendency for most of those who reply to a crossposted
> message to not intentionally strip the crossposting because such
> stripping has disadvantages to others who would follow a thread.
>
> Crosspost stripping causes forking of the topic's subthreads. However,
> *anyone* posting into a group which one doesn't read is much much worse
> than crosspost stripping. So, your zany disparate group crossposting
> creates a no-win type of dilemma for anyone who would reply to your post
> or any others which follow it so crossposted.
>
> So, that is *two* wrongs, because you did that crossposting twice to two
> different messages which preceding messages were appropriately posted to
> *only* the MS group.
>
> The other incidental thing/s you did wrong was read nntp newsgroup
> messages in GG instead of a newsreader and then post into a nntp group
> (groups in this case) via GG.
>
> So, altogether that is 4 things you did wrong. 2 x-postings and 2
> GG-related behaviors.
>


Mike,

He's well aware of those things and he's baiting you, trolling you. If
you follow his posts, everything is a twist and troll into a diversion.

He randomly injects cross-posting without mentioning it, another troll
trait.

--
You can't trust your best friends, your five senses, only the little
voice inside you that most civilians don't even hear -- Listen to that.
Trust yourself.
(E-Mail Removed) (remove 999 for proper email address)
 
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