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botnetWorks - Call for experimental botnet beta testers

 
 
Dustin Cook
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      03-13-2010
"FromTheRafters" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
news:hnegcr$7pt$(E-Mail Removed)-september.org:

> "Dustin Cook" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:Xns9D3933CB0D724HHI2948AJD832@69.16.185.247.. .
>> "FromTheRafters" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
>> news:hmsalm$gce$1
>> @news.eternal-september.org:
>>
>>> "David H. Lipman" <DLipman~nospam~@Verizon.Net> wrote in message
>>> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>>
>>>> Like there is no benevolent virus, there is no benevolent botnet.
>>>
>>> This assumes that computing power is being stolen. Otherwise a
>>> botnet is
>>> just called distributed computing. A virus is always called a virus
>>> whether it steals computing power or not - it is assumed that an
>>> infecting virus will always be malicious because it is stealing
>>> power at
>>> the very least. The definition of virus has nothing to do with
>>> malware,
>>> whereas the definition of botnet seems to be "malicious distributed
>>> computing network".
>>>
>>>
>>>

>>
>> It's not malicious for stealing cpu cycles alone. It's considered
>> malicious
>> because it makes unwanted changes to other aspects of the system,
>> sometimes
>> with dire results; and not intended by the author.

>
> ***
> Are you saying they (viruses) are considered malicious because they
> tend to be buggy?
> ***


No. Not all viruses are really that buggy, many are, but not all. It's
malicious because it makes unauthorized changes to a program. The
changes while necessary for the viruses own survival can result in
damage to the host executable or boot sector. Sometimes it's buggy code
in the virus completely to blame for this, and other times it's just a
bad call for the virus; it ran into an oddball executable that isn't
cool with the necessary patching.

A benign virus is malicious because of these unintended side effects.

>> Obviously this applies to viruses, and not this fellows botnet for
>> sale...

>
> ***
> I was just trying to show that the definition (Turing machine
> computational model) of "virus" is less like "malware" and more like
> "neutral" as in more like an automated copy/paste operation performed
> on itself. Sure, if a contemporary virus infects programs that the


I've always thought of file infectors as modified file copying programs.
Instead of copying source to target directly, they insert themselves in
some form into the stream and wind up being one with the target.

> user doesn't want infected, it is malware (makes unwanted
> modifications). The term "virus" does not mean "malware" while the
> term "botnet" apparently does - else they would be called "distributed
> computing networks". So botnet will always have a negative
> connotation, by definition (just as Pluto will never again be a
> planet, by definition). ***


Couldn't have said it better myself.


--
"Hrrngh! Someday I'm going to hurl this...er...roll this...hrrngh..
nudge this boulder right down a cliff." - Goblin Warrior

 
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FromTheRafters
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      03-14-2010
"Dustin Cook" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:Xns9D39CA9711F65HHI2948AJD832@69.16.185.250.. .
> "FromTheRafters" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in


>> ***
>> Are you saying they (viruses) are considered malicious because they
>> tend to be buggy?
>> ***

>
> No. Not all viruses are really that buggy, many are, but not all. It's
> malicious because it makes unauthorized changes to a program.


Fred Cohen's demonstration virus always asked for permission to infect.
So did his theoretical "compression virus". It is not out to steal
computing power to accomplish some malicious task. It is still a virus
(even of the type that must "infect" by definition - to exclude
diskcopy).

> The
> changes while necessary for the viruses own survival can result in
> damage to the host executable or boot sector. Sometimes it's buggy
> code
> in the virus completely to blame for this, and other times it's just a
> bad call for the virus; it ran into an oddball executable that isn't
> cool with the necessary patching.
>
> A benign virus is malicious because of these unintended side effects.


Any program can be buggy, it doesn't make them malicious. Why must it be
for viruses?
(pity the poor, much maligned, code known as a computer virus) )

[...]

> I've always thought of file infectors as modified file copying
> programs.
> Instead of copying source to target directly, they insert themselves
> in
> some form into the stream and wind up being one with the target.


Like "The Fly"? )


 
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Jim
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      03-14-2010
On Sun, 14 Mar 2010 21:39:21 +0000, za kAT
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>On Sun, 14 Mar 2010 16:23:41 -0400, za fORGER wrote:
>
>I'm dreadfully sorry about the intrusion chaps. I asked Ari for 'proof'
>regarding a certain statement, and now he's wet himself, and having a fit.
>
>Ces't la vie. <shrug>


Your French is even worse than your English.

--

Jim.

A non prophet making organisation.
 
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