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Re: Green fuels cause more harm than fossil fuels

 
 
SeaNymph
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      03-01-2010
So called alternative energies, such as biofuels, create an enormous amount
of pollution when produced. Then there is the issue of biofuels reducing
gas mileage, causing people to buy more, since it doesn't burn as hot as
gasoline. And let's not forget the increase in the cost of transportation,
considering that many such fuels cannot be transported in existing pipelines
due to the possibility of water contamination.


"Bullwinkle" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)-privat.org...
> March 1, 2010
>
> Green fuels cause more harm than fossil fuels, according to report
> Using fossil fuel in vehicles is better for the environment than so-called
> green fuels made from crops, according to a government study seen by The
> Times.
>
> The findings show that the Department for Transport's target for raising
> the
> level of biofuel in all fuel sold in Britain will result in millions of
> acres of forest being logged or burnt down and converted to plantations.
> The
> study, likely to force a review of the target, concludes that some of the
> most commonly-used biofuel crops fail to meet the minimum sustainability
> standard set by the European Commission.
>
> Under the standard, each litre of biofuel should reduce emissions by at
> least 35 per cent compared with burning a litre of fossil fuel. Yet the
> study shows that palm oil increases emissions by 31 per cent because of
> the
> carbon released when forest and grassland is turned into plantations. Rape
> seed and soy also fail to meet the standard.
>
> The Renewable Transport Fuels Obligation this year requires 3 per cent of
> all fuel sold to come from crops. The proportion is due to increase each
> year and by 2020 is required to be 13 per cent. The DfT commissioned
> E4tech,
> a consultancy, to investigate the overall impact of its biofuel target on
> forests and other undeveloped land.
>
> The EC has conducted its own research, but is refusing to publish the
> results. A leaked internal memo from the EC's agriculture directorate
> reveals its concern that Europe's entire biofuels industry, which receives
> almost 3 billion a year in subsidies, would be jeopardised if indirect
> changes in land use were included in sustainability standards. A senior
> official added to the memo in handwriting: "An unguided use of ILUC
> [indirect land use change] would kill biofuels in the EU."
>
> The EC hopes to protect its biofuel target by issuing revised standards
> that
> would give palm plantations the same status as natural forests. Officials
> appear to have accepted arguments put forward by the palm oil industry
> that
> palms are just another type of tree.
>
> A draft of the new rules, obtained by The Times, states that palm oil
> should
> be declared sustainable if it comes from a "continuously forested area",
> which it defines as areas where trees can reach at least heights of 5m,
> making up crown cover of more than 30 per cent. "This means, for example,
> that a change from forest to oil palm plantation would not per se
> constitute
> a breach of the criterion," it adds.
>
> Clearing rainforest for biofuel plantations releases carbon stored in
> trees
> and soil. It takes up to 840 years for a palm oil plantation to soak up
> the
> carbon emitted when the rainforest it replaced was burnt. The expansion of
> the palm oil industry in Indonesia has turned it into the third-largest
> CO2
> emitter, after China and the US. Indonesia loses an area of forest the
> size
> of Wales every year and the orang-utan is on the brink of extinction in
> Sumatra.
>
> Last year, 127 million litres of palm oil was added to diesel sold to
> motorists in Britain, including 64 million litres from Malaysia and 27
> million litres from Indonesia. Kenneth Richter, biofuels campaigner for
> Friends of the Earth, said: "The billions of subsidy for biofuels would be
> better spent on greener cars and improved public transport."
>



 
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Ferd.Berfle
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      03-01-2010
"....But the beauty of the left is that facts will never get in the way of
ideology....."

http://townhall.com/columnists/StarP...not_green_jobs


"SeaNymph" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:hmh505$24l$(E-Mail Removed)-september.org...
> So called alternative energies, such as biofuels, create an enormous
> amount of pollution when produced. Then there is the issue of biofuels
> reducing gas mileage, causing people to buy more, since it doesn't burn as
> hot as gasoline. And let's not forget the increase in the cost of
> transportation, considering that many such fuels cannot be transported in
> existing pipelines due to the possibility of water contamination.
>
>
> "Bullwinkle" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)-privat.org...
>> March 1, 2010
>>
>> Green fuels cause more harm than fossil fuels, according to report
>> Using fossil fuel in vehicles is better for the environment than
>> so-called
>> green fuels made from crops, according to a government study seen by The
>> Times.
>>
>> The findings show that the Department for Transport's target for raising
>> the
>> level of biofuel in all fuel sold in Britain will result in millions of
>> acres of forest being logged or burnt down and converted to plantations.
>> The
>> study, likely to force a review of the target, concludes that some of the
>> most commonly-used biofuel crops fail to meet the minimum sustainability
>> standard set by the European Commission.
>>
>> Under the standard, each litre of biofuel should reduce emissions by at
>> least 35 per cent compared with burning a litre of fossil fuel. Yet the
>> study shows that palm oil increases emissions by 31 per cent because of
>> the
>> carbon released when forest and grassland is turned into plantations.
>> Rape
>> seed and soy also fail to meet the standard.
>>
>> The Renewable Transport Fuels Obligation this year requires 3 per cent
>> of
>> all fuel sold to come from crops. The proportion is due to increase each
>> year and by 2020 is required to be 13 per cent. The DfT commissioned
>> E4tech,
>> a consultancy, to investigate the overall impact of its biofuel target on
>> forests and other undeveloped land.
>>
>> The EC has conducted its own research, but is refusing to publish the
>> results. A leaked internal memo from the EC's agriculture directorate
>> reveals its concern that Europe's entire biofuels industry, which
>> receives
>> almost 3 billion a year in subsidies, would be jeopardised if indirect
>> changes in land use were included in sustainability standards. A senior
>> official added to the memo in handwriting: "An unguided use of ILUC
>> [indirect land use change] would kill biofuels in the EU."
>>
>> The EC hopes to protect its biofuel target by issuing revised standards
>> that
>> would give palm plantations the same status as natural forests. Officials
>> appear to have accepted arguments put forward by the palm oil industry
>> that
>> palms are just another type of tree.
>>
>> A draft of the new rules, obtained by The Times, states that palm oil
>> should
>> be declared sustainable if it comes from a "continuously forested area",
>> which it defines as areas where trees can reach at least heights of 5m,
>> making up crown cover of more than 30 per cent. "This means, for example,
>> that a change from forest to oil palm plantation would not per se
>> constitute
>> a breach of the criterion," it adds.
>>
>> Clearing rainforest for biofuel plantations releases carbon stored in
>> trees
>> and soil. It takes up to 840 years for a palm oil plantation to soak up
>> the
>> carbon emitted when the rainforest it replaced was burnt. The expansion
>> of
>> the palm oil industry in Indonesia has turned it into the third-largest
>> CO2
>> emitter, after China and the US. Indonesia loses an area of forest the
>> size
>> of Wales every year and the orang-utan is on the brink of extinction in
>> Sumatra.
>>
>> Last year, 127 million litres of palm oil was added to diesel sold to
>> motorists in Britain, including 64 million litres from Malaysia and 27
>> million litres from Indonesia. Kenneth Richter, biofuels campaigner for
>> Friends of the Earth, said: "The billions of subsidy for biofuels would
>> be
>> better spent on greener cars and improved public transport."
>>

>
>



 
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Leo
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      03-01-2010
Not only biofuels have problems, wind power is also proving to be a
non-starter.

Most wind power is produced in remote locations and then has to be
transmitted to urban centers requiring miles and miles of high voltage
transmission lines. In Texas, the construction of these transmission lines
is embroiled in controversy as land owners object to the spoiling of their
view and challenging the construction in court.

--

LEO
A wishbone has never taken place of a backbone.

"SeaNymph" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:hmh505$24l$(E-Mail Removed)-september.org...
> So called alternative energies, such as biofuels, create an enormous
> amount of pollution when produced. Then there is the issue of biofuels
> reducing gas mileage, causing people to buy more, since it doesn't burn as
> hot as gasoline. And let's not forget the increase in the cost of
> transportation, considering that many such fuels cannot be transported in
> existing pipelines due to the possibility of water contamination.


 
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NotMe
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      03-01-2010

"SeaNymph" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:hmh505$24l$(E-Mail Removed)-september.org...
> So called alternative energies, such as biofuels, create an enormous
> amount of pollution when produced. Then there is the issue of biofuels
> reducing gas mileage, causing people to buy more, since it doesn't burn as
> hot as gasoline. And let's not forget the increase in the cost of
> transportation, considering that many such fuels cannot be transported in
> existing pipelines due to the possibility of water contamination.


Water is often used to separate one grade of fuel for another in pipe lines.
It's separated out on the receiving end. Fuel with too much water or a mix
of fuels is use for boiler fuel. This has been going on for decades.

There are many 'crops' that do not require a plantation such as industrial
hemp that can be used for bio-fuel. Several of the A&M Universities in the
south (USA) are playing with kudzu (spl) as a source of bio fuel. That
stuff will grown most anywhere, needs no cultivation, hell it's damned hard
to kill.

As for hemp it *IS* a weed and grows like one in creeks and ditches. (some
places it's called 'wildwood weed" not good to smoke but some have been
known to imbibe.

" biofuels, create an enormous amount of pollution when produced" ever been
inside a working refinery?


> "Bullwinkle" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)-privat.org...
>> March 1, 2010
>>
>> Green fuels cause more harm than fossil fuels, according to report
>> Using fossil fuel in vehicles is better for the environment than
>> so-called
>> green fuels made from crops, according to a government study seen by The
>> Times.
>>
>> The findings show that the Department for Transport's target for raising
>> the
>> level of biofuel in all fuel sold in Britain will result in millions of
>> acres of forest being logged or burnt down and converted to plantations.
>> The
>> study, likely to force a review of the target, concludes that some of the
>> most commonly-used biofuel crops fail to meet the minimum sustainability
>> standard set by the European Commission.
>>
>> Under the standard, each litre of biofuel should reduce emissions by at
>> least 35 per cent compared with burning a litre of fossil fuel. Yet the
>> study shows that palm oil increases emissions by 31 per cent because of
>> the
>> carbon released when forest and grassland is turned into plantations.
>> Rape
>> seed and soy also fail to meet the standard.
>>
>> The Renewable Transport Fuels Obligation this year requires 3 per cent
>> of
>> all fuel sold to come from crops. The proportion is due to increase each
>> year and by 2020 is required to be 13 per cent. The DfT commissioned
>> E4tech,
>> a consultancy, to investigate the overall impact of its biofuel target on
>> forests and other undeveloped land.
>>
>> The EC has conducted its own research, but is refusing to publish the
>> results. A leaked internal memo from the EC's agriculture directorate
>> reveals its concern that Europe's entire biofuels industry, which
>> receives
>> almost 3 billion a year in subsidies, would be jeopardised if indirect
>> changes in land use were included in sustainability standards. A senior
>> official added to the memo in handwriting: "An unguided use of ILUC
>> [indirect land use change] would kill biofuels in the EU."
>>
>> The EC hopes to protect its biofuel target by issuing revised standards
>> that
>> would give palm plantations the same status as natural forests. Officials
>> appear to have accepted arguments put forward by the palm oil industry
>> that
>> palms are just another type of tree.
>>
>> A draft of the new rules, obtained by The Times, states that palm oil
>> should
>> be declared sustainable if it comes from a "continuously forested area",
>> which it defines as areas where trees can reach at least heights of 5m,
>> making up crown cover of more than 30 per cent. "This means, for example,
>> that a change from forest to oil palm plantation would not per se
>> constitute
>> a breach of the criterion," it adds.
>>
>> Clearing rainforest for biofuel plantations releases carbon stored in
>> trees
>> and soil. It takes up to 840 years for a palm oil plantation to soak up
>> the
>> carbon emitted when the rainforest it replaced was burnt. The expansion
>> of
>> the palm oil industry in Indonesia has turned it into the third-largest
>> CO2
>> emitter, after China and the US. Indonesia loses an area of forest the
>> size
>> of Wales every year and the orang-utan is on the brink of extinction in
>> Sumatra.
>>
>> Last year, 127 million litres of palm oil was added to diesel sold to
>> motorists in Britain, including 64 million litres from Malaysia and 27
>> million litres from Indonesia. Kenneth Richter, biofuels campaigner for
>> Friends of the Earth, said: "The billions of subsidy for biofuels would
>> be
>> better spent on greener cars and improved public transport."
>>

>
>



 
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NotMe
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      03-01-2010

"Leo" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:hmh98c$jp8$(E-Mail Removed)-september.org...
> Not only biofuels have problems, wind power is also proving to be a
> non-starter.
>
> Most wind power is produced in remote locations and then has to be
> transmitted to urban centers requiring miles and miles of high voltage
> transmission lines. In Texas, the construction of these transmission
> lines is embroiled in controversy as land owners object to the spoiling of
> their view and challenging the construction in court.


You mean like what's taken place in NE in full view of the Kennedy compound?

As to Texas most of those complaining don't have any income from the wind
farms. Those that do are not as vocal in their objection.

Good example my kids inherited an interest in a wind farm where the owner
originally objected. When it turned out HE and his would be making money
the objections vanished.


 
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Leo
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      03-01-2010
Money is no doubt at the bottom of all the complaints. I've heard it said
that the transmission line builders want to secure right of way for their
transmission line for only $200.00 per mile.

As an aside, the current cost for building a transmission line is about $1.3
million per mile.

--

LEO
A wishbone has never taken place of a backbone.

"NotMe" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:hmhd81$bj$(E-Mail Removed)-september.org...
>
> You mean like what's taken place in NE in full view of the Kennedy
> compound?
>
> As to Texas most of those complaining don't have any income from the wind
> farms. Those that do are not as vocal in their objection.
>
> Good example my kids inherited an interest in a wind farm where the owner
> originally objected. When it turned out HE and his would be making money
> the objections vanished.
>

 
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SeaNymph
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      03-01-2010
I think you're missing the point. Biofuels cannot be transported in
pipelines that contain water, any water, such as those pipelines currently
used to transport petroleum products. The water pulls the ethanol out and
causes the "fuel" to separate. IOW, we do not currently have the
infrastructure to move biofuels through existing pipelines.

As for whether or not I've ever been in a working refinery, yes, I have. I
grew up on the gulf coast of Texas, refinery central. I also spent years
working for Exxon on oil tankers, so I've been inside refineries in this
country and others. That has nothing to do with the fact that the
production of ethanol creates enormous amounts of pollution. Many other
processes occur in refineries.

Makes little difference what the biofuel is made of, the issues with
production and transportation issues currently remain the same. We are
spending our fuel money in foreign countries, something we don't need to be
doing.

http://genomicscience.energy.gov/bio...ortation.shtml


"NotMe" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:hmhciu$rdk$(E-Mail Removed)-september.org...
>
> "SeaNymph" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:hmh505$24l$(E-Mail Removed)-september.org...
>> So called alternative energies, such as biofuels, create an enormous
>> amount of pollution when produced. Then there is the issue of biofuels
>> reducing gas mileage, causing people to buy more, since it doesn't burn
>> as hot as gasoline. And let's not forget the increase in the cost of
>> transportation, considering that many such fuels cannot be transported in
>> existing pipelines due to the possibility of water contamination.

>
> Water is often used to separate one grade of fuel for another in pipe
> lines. It's separated out on the receiving end. Fuel with too much water
> or a mix of fuels is use for boiler fuel. This has been going on for
> decades.
>
> There are many 'crops' that do not require a plantation such as industrial
> hemp that can be used for bio-fuel. Several of the A&M Universities in
> the south (USA) are playing with kudzu (spl) as a source of bio fuel.
> That stuff will grown most anywhere, needs no cultivation, hell it's
> damned hard to kill.
>
> As for hemp it *IS* a weed and grows like one in creeks and ditches.
> (some places it's called 'wildwood weed" not good to smoke but some have
> been known to imbibe.
>
> " biofuels, create an enormous amount of pollution when produced" ever
> been inside a working refinery?
>
>
>> "Bullwinkle" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> news:(E-Mail Removed)-privat.org...
>>> March 1, 2010
>>>
>>> Green fuels cause more harm than fossil fuels, according to report
>>> Using fossil fuel in vehicles is better for the environment than
>>> so-called
>>> green fuels made from crops, according to a government study seen by The
>>> Times.
>>>
>>> The findings show that the Department for Transport's target for raising
>>> the
>>> level of biofuel in all fuel sold in Britain will result in millions of
>>> acres of forest being logged or burnt down and converted to plantations.
>>> The
>>> study, likely to force a review of the target, concludes that some of
>>> the
>>> most commonly-used biofuel crops fail to meet the minimum sustainability
>>> standard set by the European Commission.
>>>
>>> Under the standard, each litre of biofuel should reduce emissions by at
>>> least 35 per cent compared with burning a litre of fossil fuel. Yet the
>>> study shows that palm oil increases emissions by 31 per cent because of
>>> the
>>> carbon released when forest and grassland is turned into plantations.
>>> Rape
>>> seed and soy also fail to meet the standard.
>>>
>>> The Renewable Transport Fuels Obligation this year requires 3 per cent
>>> of
>>> all fuel sold to come from crops. The proportion is due to increase each
>>> year and by 2020 is required to be 13 per cent. The DfT commissioned
>>> E4tech,
>>> a consultancy, to investigate the overall impact of its biofuel target
>>> on
>>> forests and other undeveloped land.
>>>
>>> The EC has conducted its own research, but is refusing to publish the
>>> results. A leaked internal memo from the EC's agriculture directorate
>>> reveals its concern that Europe's entire biofuels industry, which
>>> receives
>>> almost 3 billion a year in subsidies, would be jeopardised if indirect
>>> changes in land use were included in sustainability standards. A senior
>>> official added to the memo in handwriting: "An unguided use of ILUC
>>> [indirect land use change] would kill biofuels in the EU."
>>>
>>> The EC hopes to protect its biofuel target by issuing revised standards
>>> that
>>> would give palm plantations the same status as natural forests.
>>> Officials
>>> appear to have accepted arguments put forward by the palm oil industry
>>> that
>>> palms are just another type of tree.
>>>
>>> A draft of the new rules, obtained by The Times, states that palm oil
>>> should
>>> be declared sustainable if it comes from a "continuously forested area",
>>> which it defines as areas where trees can reach at least heights of 5m,
>>> making up crown cover of more than 30 per cent. "This means, for
>>> example,
>>> that a change from forest to oil palm plantation would not per se
>>> constitute
>>> a breach of the criterion," it adds.
>>>
>>> Clearing rainforest for biofuel plantations releases carbon stored in
>>> trees
>>> and soil. It takes up to 840 years for a palm oil plantation to soak up
>>> the
>>> carbon emitted when the rainforest it replaced was burnt. The expansion
>>> of
>>> the palm oil industry in Indonesia has turned it into the third-largest
>>> CO2
>>> emitter, after China and the US. Indonesia loses an area of forest the
>>> size
>>> of Wales every year and the orang-utan is on the brink of extinction in
>>> Sumatra.
>>>
>>> Last year, 127 million litres of palm oil was added to diesel sold to
>>> motorists in Britain, including 64 million litres from Malaysia and 27
>>> million litres from Indonesia. Kenneth Richter, biofuels campaigner for
>>> Friends of the Earth, said: "The billions of subsidy for biofuels would
>>> be
>>> better spent on greener cars and improved public transport."
>>>

>>
>>

>
>



 
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Rick
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      03-02-2010
Leo wrote:
> Not only biofuels have problems, wind power is also proving to be a
> non-starter.
>
> Most wind power is produced in remote locations and then has to be
> transmitted to urban centers requiring miles and miles of high voltage
> transmission lines. In Texas, the construction of these transmission
> lines is embroiled in controversy as land owners object to the spoiling
> of their view and challenging the construction in court.
>


Location IS important in producing electricity from solar power because
the wide open spaces needed are often far from where the power lines
are. The power lines were developed parallel to the water ways where
hydroelectric power was developed (TVA). Note that nuclear power also
requires access to water for cooling.

 
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Whiskers
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      03-02-2010
[cross-posting removed]
On 2010-03-01, SeaNymph <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> "NotMe" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:hmhciu$rdk$(E-Mail Removed)-september.org...
>> "SeaNymph" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> news:hmh505$24l$(E-Mail Removed)-september.org...


[...]

> I think you're missing the point. Biofuels cannot be transported in
> pipelines that contain water, any water, such as those pipelines currently
> used to transport petroleum products. The water pulls the ethanol out and
> causes the "fuel" to separate. IOW, we do not currently have the
> infrastructure to move biofuels through existing pipelines.


Alcohols are not the only 'biofuel'; but when they are used then it's true
that the water content has to be carefully controlled. It probably isn't
beyond the ability of pipeline operators to manage it satisfactorily,
though - either using dedicated pipes, or sending the liquids down the
single pipe in a sequence that prevents the alcohol from collecting too
much water or other contamination.

In the EU almost all road-vehicle fuel includes a proportion of 'biofuel',
either alcohols in fuel for spark-ignition engines or vegetable oil for
diesels, so the pipelines can clearly cope adequately.

Some people run their diesel engines on 100% 'biodiesel' or even raw
vegetable oil. Used cooking fat is the 'greenest' source of biodiesel.

[...]

> Makes little difference what the biofuel is made of, the issues with
> production and transportation issues currently remain the same. We are
> spending our fuel money in foreign countries, something we don't need to be
> doing.
>
> http://genomicscience.energy.gov/bio...ortation.shtml
>


[...]

Yes, as that article hints at and the EU report that started this thread
clearly states, food crops can't be eaten if they are converted into fuel,
and the market for biofuel serves to increase the rate at which ancient
forests are cleared destructively to make way for (often unsustainable)
"palm oil" plantations - and neither factor does anything to help the
heavy users of fuel to be self-sufficient nor much to reduce the global
release of pollution and 'green-house gas'.

--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
-- Whiskers
-- ~~~~~~~~~~
 
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Ferd.Berfle
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      03-02-2010

"Whiskers" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> [cross-posting removed]
> On 2010-03-01, SeaNymph <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>> "NotMe" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> news:hmhciu$rdk$(E-Mail Removed)-september.org...
>>> "SeaNymph" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>> news:hmh505$24l$(E-Mail Removed)-september.org...

>
> [...]
>
>> I think you're missing the point. Biofuels cannot be transported in
>> pipelines that contain water, any water, such as those pipelines
>> currently
>> used to transport petroleum products. The water pulls the ethanol out
>> and
>> causes the "fuel" to separate. IOW, we do not currently have the
>> infrastructure to move biofuels through existing pipelines.

>
> Alcohols are not the only 'biofuel'; but when they are used then it's true
> that the water content has to be carefully controlled. It probably isn't
> beyond the ability of pipeline operators to manage it satisfactorily,
> though - either using dedicated pipes, or sending the liquids down the
> single pipe in a sequence that prevents the alcohol from collecting too
> much water or other contamination.
>
> In the EU almost all road-vehicle fuel includes a proportion of 'biofuel',
> either alcohols in fuel for spark-ignition engines or vegetable oil for
> diesels, so the pipelines can clearly cope adequately.
>
> Some people run their diesel engines on 100% 'biodiesel' or even raw
> vegetable oil. Used cooking fat is the 'greenest' source of biodiesel.
>
> [...]
>
>> Makes little difference what the biofuel is made of, the issues with
>> production and transportation issues currently remain the same. We are
>> spending our fuel money in foreign countries, something we don't need to
>> be
>> doing.
>>
>> http://genomicscience.energy.gov/bio...ortation.shtml
>>

>
> [...]
>
> Yes, as that article hints at and the EU report that started this thread
> clearly states, food crops can't be eaten if they are converted into fuel,
> and the market for biofuel serves to increase the rate at which ancient
> forests are cleared destructively to make way for (often unsustainable)
> "palm oil" plantations - and neither factor does anything to help the
> heavy users of fuel to be self-sufficient nor much to reduce the global
> release of pollution and 'green-house gas'.
>
>

http://www.enewsbuilder.net/aopl/e_article000570935.cfm

..........The prospect of more ethanol in more markets across the country has
raised the issue of transporting ethanol by pipeline, which is rarely done
in the United States. When it occurs, it involves generally small pipelines
with few shippers and a limited slate of products.

In the near term, it is likely that most of the projected increase in
shipments of ethanol to terminals will be handled by tanker truck and rail
tank car as opposed to pipelines. Except for a few proprietary pipelines,
the refined product pipeline operators do not ship ethanol in their systems.

Wider use of pipelines to transport ethanol is problematic for several
reasons. It means addressing ethanol's water affinity problem (ethanol is
water soluble meaning it absorbs water). Because water accumulation in
pipelines is a normal occurrence (in most cases water enters the system
through terminal and refinery tank roofs or can be dissolved in fuels during
refinery processes), introducing ethanol into a pipeline risks rendering it
unusable as a transportation fuel.

The second challenge to transporting ethanol by pipeline is the need to
address corrosion issues. Ethanol-related corrosion problems can result
from how ethanol behaves in the pipe. There is some evidence that ethanol
in high concentrations can lead to various forms of corrosion including
internal stress corrosion cracking, which is very hard to detect. This
damage may be accelerated at weld joints or "hard spots" where the steel
metallurgy has been altered.

While it may be technically possible to address issues relating to
transporting ethanol via pipeline, significant investments in new and
modified facilities and operational practices would be necessary......



 
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