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Re: What's the matter with Linux this time?

 
 
Brocker
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      02-15-2010
On Feb 13, 2:01*pm, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <l...@geek-
central.gen.new_zealand> wrote:
> In message <hl4ln3$(E-Mail Removed)>, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>
> > In message <98033b2c-
> > (E-Mail Removed)>, Brocker wrote:

>
> >> They are growing at the same rate as other OS they just haven't worked
> >> out how to get on the internet yet. Just be patient!

>
> > Considering that most of them are directly dependent on the Internet for
> > the initial installation as well as updates, that seems a bit unlikely.

>
> Also I remember a report that said that 5% of the IP addresses on the
> Internet had been spotted getting Linux updates.


Updates are what happens almosty immediately after install.
Probably a safe bet tha Linux is the most tried OS around.
 
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Sweetpea
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      02-15-2010
On Sun, 14 Feb 2010 20:44:21 -0800, Brocker wrote:

> On Feb 13, 2:01¬*pm, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <l...@geek-
> central.gen.new_zealand> wrote:
>> In message <hl4ln3$(E-Mail Removed)>, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>
>> > In message <98033b2c-
>> > (E-Mail Removed)>, Brocker
>> > wrote:

>>
>> >> They are growing at the same rate as other OS they just haven't
>> >> worked out how to get on the internet yet. Just be patient!

>>
>> > Considering that most of them are directly dependent on the Internet
>> > for the initial installation as well as updates, that seems a bit
>> > unlikely.

>>
>> Also I remember a report that said that 5% of the IP addresses on the
>> Internet had been spotted getting Linux updates.

>
> Updates are what happens almosty immediately after install. Probably a
> safe bet tha Linux is the most tried OS around.


Updates are what happens by anyone or any organisation that wants to keep their systems up to date -
not just those trying out software for the first time!!

And, of course, there are plenty of enterprises that have multiple Linux servers hosting Oracle
databases or functioning as application servers. All those organisations do (or at least should be doing)
monthly updates - and the only IP address seen for those would be their Internet gateway.


--
"Filtering the Internet is like trying to boil the ocean"
 
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Stephen Worthington
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      02-15-2010
On Mon, 15 Feb 2010 06:40:10 -0600, "impossible"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>
>
>"Stephen Worthington" <(E-Mail Removed)34.nz56.remove_numbers> wrote in
>message news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>> On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 20:15:58 -0600, "impossible"
>> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>"Stephen Worthington" <(E-Mail Removed)34.nz56.remove_numbers> wrote in
>>>message news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>>> On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 06:24:58 -0600, "impossible"
>>>> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>"Stephen Worthington" <(E-Mail Removed)34.nz56.remove_numbers> wrote in
>>>>>message news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>>>>> On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 17:46:03 -0600, "impossible"
>>>>>> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>"Stephen Worthington" <(E-Mail Removed)34.nz56.remove_numbers> wrote
>>>>>>>in
>>>>>>>message news(E-Mail Removed)...
>>>>>>>> On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 06:29:22 -0600, "impossible"
>>>>>>>> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>"Stephen Worthington" <(E-Mail Removed)34.nz56.remove_numbers>
>>>>>>>>>wrote
>>>>>>>>>in
>>>>>>>>>message news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 9 Feb 2010 07:02:09 -0600, "impossible"
>>>>>>>>>> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>"Allistar" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>news:j7CdnRJuNpJ1nOzWnZ2dnUVZ_jpi4p2d@g iganews.com...
>>>>>>>>>>>> impossible wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Lawrence D'Oliveiro" <(E-Mail Removed)_zealand> wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> message
>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:hknv0c$oh3$(E-Mail Removed)...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In message <c32d9c41-61a3-400a-84fd-
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed)>, John Little wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How does your rant explain the steady decline in linux
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> usage?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> **** happens. The bad guys often win.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since when is Linux usage declining?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Down 25% in the past year. Can't you read?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> That doesn't say the the number of Linux users has dropped 25%
>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> last
>>>>>>>>>>>> year.
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Duh, percent is percent, Allistar. The number of linux users per
>>>>>>>>>>>100
>>>>>>>>>>>users
>>>>>>>>>>>of all operating systems has declined byone-fourth in the last
>>>>>>>>>>>year.
>>>>>>>>>>>It's
>>>>>>>>>>>the standard way of measuring performance. Deal with it.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> No, you need to use English more carefully. Those statistics you
>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>> so fond of quoting may say a 25% decrease, but in what? You said:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "Larry D'Loserites always have some excuse for why linux usage on
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> desktop is stagnant. But after trending steadily downward
>>>>>>>>>> throughout
>>>>>>>>>> the past year (25% less in January 2010 then in January 2009),
>>>>>>>>>> you'd
>>>>>>>>>> really have to say now that linux usage is dying a slow death."
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Any sensible reader of English would understand from that that you
>>>>>>>>>> were saying that the absolute numbers of Linux users had
>>>>>>>>>> decreased,
>>>>>>>>>> not that the number of Linux users as a proportion of all users
>>>>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>>>>> decreased. The association from the word "stagnant" does it -
>>>>>>>>>> "stagnant" in that context refers to numbers, not percentages or
>>>>>>>>>> relative numbers. That makes the in the next sentence 25% also
>>>>>>>>>> refer
>>>>>>>>>> to an absolute number, not a relative one.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Stephen the Spinmeister -- always entertaining to watch you twist
>>>>>>>>>simple
>>>>>>>>>facts.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No, you are the one who twists things. So much that I get to the
>>>>>>>> point where I just have to call you on it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> In any case, all the statistics on that web page actually say is
>>>>>>>>>> that,
>>>>>>>>>> of the web sites tracked by that organisation, 1.63% of page views
>>>>>>>>>> came from web browsers that identify themselves as running on
>>>>>>>>>> Linux.
>>>>>>>>>> Reading anything more into the numbers such as the percentage of
>>>>>>>>>> Linux
>>>>>>>>>> desktop users actually out there is junk statistics - the numbers
>>>>>>>>>> do
>>>>>>>>>> not translate from one to the other. You would need someone to do
>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>> careful peer reviewed study of how the statistical relationship
>>>>>>>>>> between the page views numbers and the actual desktop user numbers
>>>>>>>>>> worked before you could say anything more from those results.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>6 other samples all agree -- in fact W3counter provides the most
>>>>>>>>>generous
>>>>>>>>>estimate of all.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>><http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_desktop_operating_systems>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>This is a widely respoected method of estimating market share. Since
>>>>>>>>>no
>>>>>>>>>Larry D'Loserite, yourself included, has ever been able to point to
>>>>>>>>>an
>>>>>>>>>alternative site providing factual information that contradicts any
>>>>>>>>>of
>>>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>>>above references, I can only interpret your intervention here as
>>>>>>>>>sheer
>>>>>>>>>FUD.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Your own reference Wikipedia page is clearly something that you have
>>>>>>>> not read very well. I have just browsed it a little, but even that
>>>>>>>> little makes it clear you have not. How about this quote, from the
>>>>>>>> end of the first paragraph: "Information about operating systems
>>>>>>>> share
>>>>>>>> is difficult to obtain. In most of the categories below, there is no
>>>>>>>> reliable primary source or methodology for its collection." That
>>>>>>>> makes it pretty clear I think. There is considerable variation in
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> figures from different sources shown there. The page also points to
>>>>>>>> cautions about interpreting the figures from web hits in just the
>>>>>>>> way
>>>>>>>> I am cautioning you. And did you check out reference [2]? Steve
>>>>>>>> Ballmer of Microsoft apparently thinks that Linux is a bigger
>>>>>>>> competitor for them than Apple:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://www.osnews.com/story/21035/Ba...tor_than_Apple
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Also, given the massive number of web sites out there, 32,451
>>>>>>>>>> sites
>>>>>>>>>> seems like a very small sample. I wonder if W3Counter is going
>>>>>>>>>> out
>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>> business - I would have expected them to have more sites than
>>>>>>>>>> that.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Yes, I was right. FUD it is.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Please elucidate. In what way was what I said FUD? You are the
>>>>>>>> FUDder. I just said that you interpret statistics to mean far more
>>>>>>>> than they do. I have never said that Linux's usage is huge or that
>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>> may not be in the range suggested by those web counters. It may or
>>>>>>>> may not be. But you just can not tell from web page counters. So
>>>>>>>> where is the Fear, or Uncertainty in that? Doubt, yes indeed. I
>>>>>>>> take
>>>>>>>> great caution in interpreting any statistics. You should too.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Show the evidence you have to contradict what 7 different web sites
>>>>>>>independently show -- that
>>>>>>>linuxe usage has been in steady decline for the past year. Oh,
>>>>>>>wait...
>>>>>>>you
>>>>>>>have none, do you? You are talking out your arse based on ideological
>>>>>>>conviction, not facts.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The whole point of my post, which you seem to have completely and
>>>>>> utterly missed, is that those 7 web sites show nothing of the sort.
>>>>>> They only show that web page accesses, by browsers identifying
>>>>>> themselves as Linux based, to only the web sites monitored by the
>>>>>> reporting sites, have decreased as a *proportion* of accesses. Nothing
>>>>>> much more is able to be read into those statistics. Certainly not
>>>>>> what you keep blathering on about.
>>>>>
>>>>>Show me the evidence that 7 independent surveys are wrong. No matter how
>>>>>you
>>>>>try to spin this, Linux usage is declining.
>>>>
>>>> Once again, you ignore what I wrote and post more blather. Clearly
>>>> you know I am right as you this is what you always seem to do when you
>>>> have no answer to someone's post - you just ignore what other people
>>>> write and repeat yourself. So, please tell me just how you get to
>>>> "Linux usage declining" from figures that do not say that. Tell me
>>>> how you get absolute numbers of browser usage at all, from those
>>>> proportional figure. Until you can be bothered to actually answer
>>>> instead of repeating blather, do not bother to reply.
>>>
>>>Your Dumb and Dumber routine with Allistar is tiresome. Either show me the
>>>evidence that 7 independent surveys are wrong about the decline of linux
>>>usage or concede that you don't have a clue what you're talking about. As
>>>I
>>>stated in my OP, Linux usage has been trending steadily downward for the
>>>past year. Your denial of that fact borders on psychosis.

>>
>> I have not accepted or denied anything about actual Linux usage.
>> Please re-read what I have actually posted in this thread to confirm
>> that. I have just pointed out that your interpretation on the web
>> page you so like shows no such thing. You are still not addressing
>> that problem at all - just repeating and repeating your blather. This
>> is a technique called "the big lie". It does work, I am afraid, but
>> not on people who do understand it.

>
>The "big lie" originates from people like you who think that evidence
>doesn't matter. I accept that your religious convictions are offended by
>statistics demonstrating the decline of linux usage over the past year, but
>wailing will get you nowhere. I've referenced 7 independent studies that
>support this view. If you dispute those numbers, then go find some data to
>back your claim up. Surely you're not just making this up to console the
>true believers .....Are you?


Once again, you just ignore what I actually have posted and repeat
your imbecilic interpretation of those web pages. As I said - "The
Big Lie" technique.
 
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Squiggle
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      02-16-2010
Lawrence D'Oliveiro threw some characters down the intarwebs:
> In message <hl4ln3$7c7$(E-Mail Removed)>, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>
>
>> In message <98033b2c-
>> fce8-4745-99d9-6f5cee81de28@u15g2000...oglegroups.com>, Brocker wrote:
>>
>>
>>> They are growing at the same rate as other OS they just haven't worked
>>> out how to get on the internet yet. Just be patient!
>>>

>> Considering that most of them are directly dependent on the Internet for
>> the initial installation as well as updates, that seems a bit unlikely.
>>

>
> Also I remember a report that said that 5% of the IP addresses on the
> Internet had been spotted getting Linux updates.
>


Over what time period?

And how many of those were the same 20 geeks cycling through every
dynamically allocated IP address their ISP has?
 
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Judges 13:18
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      02-18-2010
impossible wrote:

>
> Linux usage as a share of all os usage is in steady decline.
>
> <http://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php>
>
> January 2009 = 2.06%
> January 2010 = 1.63%
>
> Deal with it.
>
>


But more interestingly:

January 2009 = 2.06 %
December 2009 = 2.14 %
January 2010 = 1.63 %

So, what happened between 31/12/2009 and 31/01/2010?
 
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Judges 13:18
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      02-19-2010
impossible wrote:
> The whole truth is better then selected snippets. This is called a trend:
>
> January 2010 = 1.63 %
> December 2009 = 2.14 %
> November 2009 = 1.80 %
> October 2009 = 2.14 %
> September 2009 = 1.84 %
> August 2009 = 1.97 %
> July 2009 = 2.02 %
> June 2009 = 2.11 %
> May 2009 = 2.13 %
> April 2009 = 2.16 %
> March 2009 = 2.10 %
> February 2009 = 2.13 %
> January 2009 = 2.14 %
>
> And btw, "Judge" -- who are you sock puppeting for? Someone who posted
> here previously under an other nym claiming there was **no** validity in
> W3 stats? Someone who now claims there **is** validity in **selected**
> W3 stats? Someone who can't handle an honest discussion?
>
>
>


Firstly, there is no need to be rude. We may understand each
other better by retaining civility.

Secondly, I do not challenge validity of the numbers, at the moment.
So, assuming the numbers are correct, I wonder why the number
has dropped significantly in just one month.

Was it due to holiday season?
Was it because many Linux users implemented browser masquerading
(e.g. I make wget masquerade as Firefox, to fool spider killers)?
Was it because a significant part of Linux traffic is due
to updates, and there were not many updates issued in January?
Why?
I do not know. But it may be interesting to find out.
 
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