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Canon 7D and softness - what's the latest??

 
 
BD
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      12-30-2009
Hi, all.

I'm not looking to start (restart) a big debate, I'm just wondering if
someone's seen info that I have not.

I've been following the assessments of the sharpness/softness in the
Canon 7D.

I am finding a couple of different conclusions:

1) The hardware is producing softer images; and
2) The DPP / ACR software needed to be updated to better support the
hardware, and with the latest software the softness issues are
eliminated.

I've seen as many discussions (fredmiranda, dpreview) about the
softness of the sensor as I have about the need for an updated DPP.
One person says their images are soft, and the next person says this
softness was completely remedied by using the latest DPP / ACR, or
Lightroom.

This *appears* to be settling on the side of those who assert an issue
with the sensor.

Am I wrong? I'm wondering if someone knows of a 'silver bullet' which
conclusively shows that there is not a problem with the sensor, and
that the issue is the software being used to view the images.

Thanks...

BD
 
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Rich
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      12-30-2009
On Dec 30, 12:30*pm, BD <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> Hi, all.
>
> I'm not looking to start (restart) a big debate, I'm just wondering if
> someone's seen info that I have not.
>
> I've been following the assessments of the sharpness/softness in the
> Canon 7D.
>
> I am finding a couple of different conclusions:
>
> 1) The hardware is producing softer images; and
> 2) The DPP / ACR software needed to be updated to better support the
> hardware, and with the latest software the softness issues are
> eliminated.


Are you sure the problem lies with poor ACR support, rather than
something like a strong AA filter and it's effect on an 18 megapixel
sensor? Has anyone ever wondered if the alignment of AA filter with
the CMOS sensor is more difficult the greater the pixel density? Maybe
tolerances are simply not tight enough, compared to a 10 megapixel
sensor? The softness issue (for cameras that came out with higher
pixel counts than their predecessors) has dogged other companies than
Canon.
 
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BD
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Posts: n/a
 
      12-30-2009
On Dec 30, 12:33*pm, Rich <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> On Dec 30, 12:30*pm, BD <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
> > Hi, all.

>
> > I'm not looking to start (restart) a big debate, I'm just wondering if
> > someone's seen info that I have not.

>
> > I've been following the assessments of the sharpness/softness in the
> > Canon 7D.

>
> > I am finding a couple of different conclusions:

>
> > 1) The hardware is producing softer images; and
> > 2) The DPP / ACR software needed to be updated to better support the
> > hardware, and with the latest software the softness issues are
> > eliminated.

>
> Are you sure the problem lies with poor ACR support, rather than
> something like a strong AA filter and it's effect on an 18 megapixel
> sensor? *Has anyone ever wondered if the alignment of AA filter with
> the CMOS sensor is more difficult the greater the pixel density? Maybe
> tolerances are simply not tight enough, compared to a 10 megapixel
> sensor? *The softness issue (for cameras that came out with higher
> pixel counts than their predecessors) has dogged other companies than
> Canon.


Another suggestion was made to me this morning by a vendor: The kind
of pixel-level sharpness you see in some digitals just doesn't exist
in the film world. These sensors are perhaps not quite as sharp by
default in order to better replicate the characteristics of film.
Additional sharpness can, theoretically, be had by adjusting the
camera, or in post. The suggestion he made was that the kind of tack-
sharpness you see in some digitals is less appealing aesthetically.

I'm not sure I buy that; it's just a perspective I hadn't considered.
 
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Ray Fischer
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      12-30-2009
BD <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>I'm not looking to start (restart) a big debate,


Or start rumors?

> I'm just wondering if
>someone's seen info that I have not.
>
>I've been following the assessments of the sharpness/softness in the
>Canon 7D.
>
>I am finding a couple of different conclusions:


So am I.

You make unfounded allegations, produce no evidence to support those
allegations, and then pretend to look for an explanation for those
unfounded allegations.

[...]
>Am I wrong?


Not if you want to be a propaganda minister for some government.

--
Ray Fischer
http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed)

 
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BD
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      12-31-2009
On Dec 30, 3:41*pm, (E-Mail Removed) (Ray Fischer) wrote:
> BD *<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> >I'm not looking to start (restart) a big debate,

>
> Or start rumors?
>
> > I'm just wondering if
> >someone's seen info that I have not.

>
> >I've been following the assessments of the sharpness/softness in the
> >Canon 7D.

>
> >I am finding a couple of different conclusions:

>
> So am I.
>
> You make unfounded allegations, produce no evidence to support those
> allegations, and then pretend to look for an explanation for those
> unfounded allegations.
>
> [...]
>
> >Am I wrong?

>
> Not if you want to be a propaganda minister for some government.
>
> --
> Ray Fischer * * * *
> (E-Mail Removed) *


Wow. Relax, will you? Claiming to have read something is not exactly
the same as making allegations, Mensa-bait. See the words I used?
'*following* assessments'? '*Finding* conclusions? See? First three
lines of my initial post... go ahead, reread it. I'll wait. Making
allegations, am I?. Here's one. You're a fool and a troll. I'm looking
for feedback and get bitch-slapped for it? Mmmmyeahnotsomuch. You want
citations, and ask me for some without characterizing me in the same
breath, and I'll be happy to oblige.

Hell with it - you want a citation? Google "canon 7d soft", pick one
of the DOZENS of discussions on the topic, and fill your f*cking
boots.


 
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ransley
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      12-31-2009
On Dec 30, 3:16*pm, BD <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> On Dec 30, 12:33*pm, Rich <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Dec 30, 12:30*pm, BD <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>
> > > Hi, all.

>
> > > I'm not looking to start (restart) a big debate, I'm just wondering if
> > > someone's seen info that I have not.

>
> > > I've been following the assessments of the sharpness/softness in the
> > > Canon 7D.

>
> > > I am finding a couple of different conclusions:

>
> > > 1) The hardware is producing softer images; and
> > > 2) The DPP / ACR software needed to be updated to better support the
> > > hardware, and with the latest software the softness issues are
> > > eliminated.

>
> > Are you sure the problem lies with poor ACR support, rather than
> > something like a strong AA filter and it's effect on an 18 megapixel
> > sensor? *Has anyone ever wondered if the alignment of AA filter with
> > the CMOS sensor is more difficult the greater the pixel density? Maybe
> > tolerances are simply not tight enough, compared to a 10 megapixel
> > sensor? *The softness issue (for cameras that came out with higher
> > pixel counts than their predecessors) has dogged other companies than
> > Canon.

>
> Another suggestion was made to me this morning by a vendor: The kind
> of pixel-level sharpness you see in some digitals just doesn't exist
> in the film world. These sensors are perhaps not quite as sharp by
> default in order to better replicate the characteristics of film.
> Additional sharpness can, theoretically, be had by adjusting the
> camera, or in post. The suggestion he made was that the kind of tack-
> sharpness you see in some digitals is less appealing aesthetically.
>
> I'm not sure I buy that; it's just a perspective I hadn't considered.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -


Of course a salesman would say that, he wants to sell you the 7d, the
reviews I have read, and its funny how dpreview doesnt address it say
to me its the camera and not worth getting.
 
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ransley
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Posts: n/a
 
      12-31-2009
On Dec 30, 5:41*pm, (E-Mail Removed) (Ray Fischer) wrote:
> BD *<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> >I'm not looking to start (restart) a big debate,

>
> Or start rumors?
>
> > I'm just wondering if
> >someone's seen info that I have not.

>
> >I've been following the assessments of the sharpness/softness in the
> >Canon 7D.

>
> >I am finding a couple of different conclusions:

>
> So am I.
>
> You make unfounded allegations, produce no evidence to support those
> allegations, and then pretend to look for an explanation for those
> unfounded allegations.
>
> [...]
>
> >Am I wrong?

>
> Not if you want to be a propaganda minister for some government.
>
> --
> Ray Fischer * * * *
> (E-Mail Removed) *


You must be an unhappy canon salesman, Try google, 7dsoft focus,
7dsoft picture etc etc etc etc , its a well known fact its crap, sure
the body is great, so what.
 
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Ray Fischer
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      12-31-2009
BD <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>On Dec 30, 3:41*pm, (E-Mail Removed) (Ray Fischer) wrote:
>> BD *<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>> >I'm not looking to start (restart) a big debate,

>>
>> Or start rumors?
>>
>> > I'm just wondering if
>> >someone's seen info that I have not.

>>
>> >I've been following the assessments of the sharpness/softness in the
>> >Canon 7D.

>>
>> >I am finding a couple of different conclusions:

>>
>> So am I.
>>
>> You make unfounded allegations, produce no evidence to support those
>> allegations, and then pretend to look for an explanation for those
>> unfounded allegations.
>>
>> [...]
>>
>> >Am I wrong?

>>
>> Not if you want to be a propaganda minister for some government.

>
>Wow. Relax, will you? Claiming to have read something is not exactly
>the same as making allegations, Mensa-bait.


Yes it is. Want an example?

I read somewhere that you're paid by Nikon to slander and smear Canon.
I'm wondering if anyone has seen any information as to how much you
might be getting paid for that service.

--
Ray Fischer
(E-Mail Removed)

 
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Ray Fischer
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      12-31-2009
ransley <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> (E-Mail Removed) (Ray Fischer) wrote:
>> BD *<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>> >I'm not looking to start (restart) a big debate,

>>
>> Or start rumors?
>>
>> > I'm just wondering if
>> >someone's seen info that I have not.

>>
>> >I've been following the assessments of the sharpness/softness in the
>> >Canon 7D.

>>
>> >I am finding a couple of different conclusions:

>>
>> So am I.
>>
>> You make unfounded allegations, produce no evidence to support those
>> allegations, and then pretend to look for an explanation for those
>> unfounded allegations.
>>
>> [...]
>>
>> >Am I wrong?

>>
>> Not if you want to be a propaganda minister for some government.

>
>You must be an unhappy canon salesman, Try google, 7dsoft focus,


ANOTHER shill crawls out from under a rock! Or the same one with a
different userid. And they're both using free and anonymous accounts.
WHAT a surprise.

--
Ray Fischer
(E-Mail Removed)

 
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Bob AZ
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Posts: n/a
 
      12-31-2009
I've been following the assessments of the sharpness/softness in
> > the Canon 7D.

>
> Can't speak to the 7D but I've never been at all happy with the
> softness of my Rebel XSi images, despite it's new (then) sharpness
> filter.
>

Jerry

I have had three Canon DSLRS and each was soft until I set the
Preferences settings on a menu item. With the 2nd and 3rd one I did
this before putting them into use. See your manual for further
information.

Bob AZ
 
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