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Does W7 support Usenet

 
 
Sweetpea
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      01-08-2010
On Sat, 09 Jan 2010 12:00:50 +1300, Enkidu wrote:

> Sweetpea wrote:
>> On Thu, 07 Jan 2010 20:20:02 +1300, Enkidu wrote:
>>
>>> Sweetpea wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 07 Jan 2010 10:37:41 +1300, Allistar wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "Hose" to me means destroy all data, not simply prevent booting.
>>>> "Hose" to me means to render unusable.
>>>>
>>> You really ought to be a Libertarian.

>>
>> Well, if we're going to be strict about the definition of "hose", I'd
>> say it is a flexible tube of not greater than 1" diameter for the
>> conveyance of liquids.
>>

> or gases and sometimes powdered solids. Or socks and tights. There are
> many valid meanings.


Indeed, so your comment was in fact snide and unjust.


--
"Filtering the Internet is like trying to boil the ocean"
 
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Lawrence D'Oliveiro
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      01-10-2010
In message <(E-Mail Removed)>, Sweetpea wrote:

> On Fri, 08 Jan 2010 16:57:02 +1300, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>
>> In message <(E-Mail Removed)>, Allistar
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>
>>>> In message <(E-Mail Removed)>, Allistar
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The original assertion you made is that you cannot hose a system by
>>>>> putting a single file into /etc. If that's the criteria for this
>>>>> thought experiment, then that is the means of getting the file in
>>>>> there.
>>>>>
>>>>>> b) How would you get the system to execute it?
>>>>>
>>>>> By making it a file that the system already executes, such as
>>>>> something in /etc/init.d or one of the various startup scripts.
>>>>
>>>> But files in /etc/init.d are not automatically executed.
>>>
>>> In most systems at least some of them are.

>>
>> No, they never are automatically executed.

>
> Actually, they are Lawrence - especially at bootup. You will have some
> scripts that MUST be run when you boot the computer.


But not from /etc/init.d.
 
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Lawrence D'Oliveiro
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      01-10-2010
In message <(E-Mail Removed)>, Allistar wrote:

> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>
>> In message <(E-Mail Removed)>, Allistar
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>
>>>> In message <(E-Mail Removed)>, Allistar
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The original assertion you made is that you cannot hose a system by
>>>>> putting a single file into /etc. If that's the criteria for this
>>>>> thought experiment, then that is the means of getting the file in
>>>>> there.
>>>>>
>>>>>> b) How would you get the system to execute it?
>>>>>
>>>>> By making it a file that the system already executes, such as
>>>>> something in /etc/init.d or one of the various startup scripts.
>>>>
>>>> But files in /etc/init.d are not automatically executed.
>>>
>>> In most systems at least some of them are.

>>
>> No, they never are automatically executed.

>
> Are you telling us that on Linux there are no scripts that are
> automatically executed when you boot up the computer? I'm talking about
> normal distributions, not some hypothetical stripped down one for the sake
> of this argument.


Putting something in /etc/init.d is not enough to get it automatically
executed.
 
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Sweetpea
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      01-10-2010
On Sun, 10 Jan 2010 20:16:21 +1300, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

>> Actually, they are Lawrence - especially at bootup. You will have some
>> scripts that MUST be run when you boot the computer.

>
> But not from /etc/init.d.


Incorrect.

Scripts are indeed run from a location within /etc/init.d - specifically from within /etc/init.d/boot.d.

At least the scripts are linked to from there.


--
"Filtering the Internet is like trying to boil the ocean"
 
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Lawrence D'Oliveiro
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      01-10-2010
In message <(E-Mail Removed)>, Sweetpea wrote:

> On Sun, 10 Jan 2010 20:16:21 +1300, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>
>>> Actually, they are Lawrence - especially at bootup. You will have some
>>> scripts that MUST be run when you boot the computer.

>>
>> But not from /etc/init.d.

>
> Incorrect.
>
> At least the scripts are linked to from there.


They have to be explicitly symlinked into an rc[0-6].d directory before they
will run.

Like I said, scripts merely in /etc/init.d/ are not automatically executed.
 
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Sweetpea
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      01-10-2010
On Sun, 10 Jan 2010 22:49:35 +1300, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

>> Incorrect.
>>
>> At least the scripts are linked to from there.

>
> They have to be explicitly symlinked into an rc[0-6].d directory before
> they will run.
>
> Like I said, scripts merely in /etc/init.d/ are not automatically
> executed.


Yes, but his point was if one of those scripts in there was MODIFIED.


--
"Filtering the Internet is like trying to boil the ocean"
 
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victor
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      01-10-2010
Allistar wrote:
> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>
>> In message <(E-Mail Removed)>, Allistar
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>
>>>> In message <(E-Mail Removed)>, Allistar
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> In message <(E-Mail Removed)>, Allistar
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The original assertion you made is that you cannot hose a system by
>>>>>>> putting a single file into /etc. If that's the criteria for this
>>>>>>> thought experiment, then that is the means of getting the file in
>>>>>>> there.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> b) How would you get the system to execute it?
>>>>>>> By making it a file that the system already executes, such as
>>>>>>> something in /etc/init.d or one of the various startup scripts.
>>>>>> But files in /etc/init.d are not automatically executed.
>>>>> In most systems at least some of them are.
>>>> No, they never are automatically executed.
>>> Are you telling us that on Linux there are no scripts that are
>>> automatically executed when you boot up the computer? I'm talking about
>>> normal distributions, not some hypothetical stripped down one for the
>>> sake of this argument.

>> Putting something in /etc/init.d is not enough to get it automatically
>> executed.

>
> I never said it was. No one in this thread has made that claim.
>
> The claim is that a well crafted and named file, if put into the /etc
> directory somewhere, could hose your computer. You claimed this was not
> possible. It has been shown that it is. /etc/in.t/d was just an example.
> That are other locations that scripts run from.
>
> Another example file (on Gentoo at least) is /sbin/rc.conf. It would be
> trivial to put in code that deletes all files in your root file system when
> you boot up. Just one file is all that needs changing to do this. So to
> claim that you cannot trash a Linux system by changing one file is either
> nieve or dishonest.


It all sounds like desperate pedantry to me.
If you stick in some installer media it fulfills all of the conditions
you keep redefining to suit your argument.
Nothing to see here, if you have physical access you can do anything, if
you abuse the owners trust you can do anything, if you are the owner you
can do anything, its just a computer ffs.
 
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Enkidu
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Posts: n/a
 
      01-10-2010
Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> In message <(E-Mail Removed)>, Sweetpea wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 08 Jan 2010 16:57:02 +1300, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>
>>> In message <(E-Mail Removed)>, Allistar
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In message <(E-Mail Removed)>, Allistar
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> The original assertion you made is that you cannot hose a system by
>>>>>> putting a single file into /etc. If that's the criteria for this
>>>>>> thought experiment, then that is the means of getting the file in
>>>>>> there.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> b) How would you get the system to execute it?
>>>>>> By making it a file that the system already executes, such as
>>>>>> something in /etc/init.d or one of the various startup scripts.
>>>>> But files in /etc/init.d are not automatically executed.
>>>> In most systems at least some of them are.
>>> No, they never are automatically executed.

>> Actually, they are Lawrence - especially at bootup. You will have some
>> scripts that MUST be run when you boot the computer.

>
> But not from /etc/init.d.
>

Yes, from /etc/init.d/. That's where the scripts reside, even if they
are linked to from the rcN.d directories.

Cheers,

Cliff

--

The Internet is interesting in that although the nicknames may change,
the same old personalities show through.
 
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Enkidu
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      01-10-2010
Allistar wrote:
> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>
>> In message <(E-Mail Removed)>, Allistar
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>
>>>> In message <(E-Mail Removed)>, Allistar
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> In message <(E-Mail Removed)>, Allistar
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The original assertion you made is that you cannot hose a system by
>>>>>>> putting a single file into /etc. If that's the criteria for this
>>>>>>> thought experiment, then that is the means of getting the file in
>>>>>>> there.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> b) How would you get the system to execute it?
>>>>>>> By making it a file that the system already executes, such as
>>>>>>> something in /etc/init.d or one of the various startup scripts.
>>>>>> But files in /etc/init.d are not automatically executed.
>>>>> In most systems at least some of them are.
>>>> No, they never are automatically executed.
>>> Are you telling us that on Linux there are no scripts that are
>>> automatically executed when you boot up the computer? I'm talking about
>>> normal distributions, not some hypothetical stripped down one for the
>>> sake of this argument.

>> Putting something in /etc/init.d is not enough to get it automatically
>> executed.

>
> I never said it was. No one in this thread has made that claim.
>
> The claim is that a well crafted and named file, if put into the /etc
> directory somewhere, could hose your computer. You claimed this was not
> possible. It has been shown that it is. /etc/in.t/d was just an example.
> That are other locations that scripts run from.
>
> Another example file (on Gentoo at least) is /sbin/rc.conf. It would be
> trivial to put in code that deletes all files in your root file system when
> you boot up. Just one file is all that needs changing to do this. So to
> claim that you cannot trash a Linux system by changing one file is either
> naive or dishonest.
>

Also, you could put a line into inittab to remove all files or subvert
/etc/init.d/rcS (which *is* run directly at boot time from inittab).

Cheers,

Cliff

--

The Internet is interesting in that although the nicknames may change,
the same old personalities show through.
 
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Enkidu
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Posts: n/a
 
      01-10-2010
Sweetpea wrote:
> On Sun, 10 Jan 2010 20:16:21 +1300, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>
>>> Actually, they are Lawrence - especially at bootup. You will have some
>>> scripts that MUST be run when you boot the computer.

>> But not from /etc/init.d.

>
> Incorrect.
>
> Scripts are indeed run from a location within /etc/init.d - specifically from within /etc/init.d/boot.d.
>
> At least the scripts are linked to from there.
>

That's a SuSEism, I think. There is no boot.d in init.d in the more
usual OSes.

Cheers,

Cliff

--

The Internet is interesting in that although the nicknames may change,
the same old personalities show through.
 
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