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Re: In the matter of Herb Schildt

 
 
spinoza1111
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      12-22-2009
On Nov 7, 12:56 am, Seebs <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> On 2009-11-06, Clive D.W. Feather <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
> > [Hmm; I go away for a few days and he's still at it.]

>
> You've missed much of the fun.
>
> > If you're desperate to find out, do what any decent collegiate academic
> > would do and research it for yourself. The answer is out there if you look.

>
> You know, the more I think about it, the funnier this has the potential
> to be.
>
> Consider: Imagine that he were to research your qualifications. And
> imagine that he brought the same obsessiveness, accuacy, care, and
> attention to detail to this task that he brought to his study of C
> and his writing about various documents critical of Schildt's writings.
>
> I really can't see a way this can fail to be comedy gold. I imagine
> that, even now, he's carefully reviewing some teenager's Harry Potter
> fan site to see whether perhaps you studied at Hogwarts. Later, he'll
> reveal that, as the creator of the Daleks, you are a threat to liberty
> and humanity, and make fun of you about the whole "stairs" thing.


Your care was on display as a moderator when you allowed a post that
accidentally involved Seibel. Why is it OK for you to pretend to be a
newsgroup moderator? You're not competent at the job.

I believe that you, without adequate educational qualifications, are
trying to make a career in two ways

(1) You volunteer for jobs at which you're not competent.

(2) You destroy careers of competent people.

For example, you appear to have volunteered to "serve" on the ISO
standards effort strictly in order to appear to be an expert, in
preference to returning to graduate school to actually learn comp
science. Had you done so, you would not have written, in "C: The
Complete Nonsense" this howler: "the 'heap' is a DOS term".

You are the Sarah Palin of this newsgroup, because you claim
competence in roughly the same way she did when she claimed competence
in foreign policy based on Alaska being next to Russia. You take jobs
for personal advancement but act in them as irresponsibly as she acted
when she quit her job as governor to work on her personal advancement,
and, while governor, ruined the careers of her opponents.

Herb knew that you need SOME sort of linked list "heap" and SOME sort
of LIFO data structure to implement a language with recursive
procedures because he, unlike you, has written a small implementation
of C and has, unlike you, completed the BS and MSCS in computer
science. He knows there's no such thing as truly undefined behavior
unless you are closet programmer in the sense of somebody who
speculates idly about code and who trashes real programmers.
>
> -s
> --
> Copyright 2009, all wrongs reversed. Peter Seebach / (E-Mail Removed)://www.seebs.net/log/<-- lawsuits, religion, and funny pictureshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Game_(Scientology) <-- get educated!
> --
> comp.lang.c.moderated - moderation address: (E-Mail Removed) -- you must
> have an appropriate newsgroups line in your header for your mail to be seen,
> or the newsgroup name in square brackets in the subject line. Sorry.

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Dennis \(Icarus\)
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      12-22-2009
"spinoza1111" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> On Nov 7, 12:56 am, Seebs <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

<snip>
>
> Your care was on display as a moderator when you allowed a post that
> accidentally involved Seibel. Why is it OK for you to pretend to be a
> newsgroup moderator? You're not competent at the job.
>


Why did you make the error in the first place?
It is your responsibility to review and edit your posts prior to sending.

Dennis

..
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Seebs
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      12-22-2009
On 2009-12-22, Dennis (Icarus) <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> Why did you make the error in the first place?
> It is your responsibility to review and edit your posts prior to sending.


And again, I have no idea how I should have guessed that it was an
error. There is such a person as Peter Siebel, he's an Apress author,
he was an English major... Even if I thought it WERE my job to determine
whether people were posting sense, I can't imagine how I was supposed to
realize that Spinoza had not only the name wrong, but other attributes
as well, such that by amazing coincidence he used a name which matched the
other attributes he picked.

And frankly, really, if I were in the business of rejecting posts for
containing obvious errors, we'd never have heard of Spinoza.

FWIW, I don't plan to stop posting his perhaps-maybe-topical rants, but
I don't expect anyone to refrain from killfiling him. I know I have; he
was funny briefly and has since ceased to amuse. When I want comparably
qualified opinions on Schildt's writing, I'll ask my cat.

-s
--
Copyright 2009, all wrongs reversed. Peter Seebach / (E-Mail Removed)
http://www.seebs.net/log/ <-- lawsuits, religion, and funny pictures
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Game_(Scientology) <-- get educated!
--
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spinoza1111
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      12-23-2009
On Dec 23, 7:52*am, Seebs <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> On 2009-12-22, Dennis (Icarus) <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
> > Why did you make the error in the first place?
> > It is your responsibility to review and edit your posts prior to sending.

>
> And again, I have no idea how I should have guessed that it was an
> error. *There is such a person as Peter Siebel, he's an Apress author,
> he was an English major... Even if I thought it WERE my job to determine
> whether people were posting sense, I can't imagine how I was supposed to
> realize that Spinoza had not only the name wrong, but other attributes
> as well, such that by amazing coincidence he used a name which matched the
> other attributes he picked.


It was pretty obvious. The inattention was yours, and I believe you
took the job as moderator to appear to be more qualified than you
actually are.
>
> And frankly, really, if I were in the business of rejecting posts for
> containing obvious errors, we'd never have heard of Spinoza.


Gee, what part of comp.lang.c [unmoderated} don't you understand?

>
> FWIW, I don't plan to stop posting his perhaps-maybe-topical rants, but
> I don't expect anyone to refrain from killfiling him. *I know I have; he
> was funny briefly and has since ceased to amuse. *When I want comparably
> qualified opinions on Schildt's writing, I'll ask my cat.



>
> -s
> --
> Copyright 2009, all wrongs reversed. *Peter Seebach / (E-Mail Removed)://www.seebs.net/log/<-- lawsuits, religion, and funny pictureshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Game_(Scientology) <-- get educated!
> --
> comp.lang.c.moderated - moderation address: (E-Mail Removed) -- you must
> have an appropriate newsgroups line in your header for your mail to be seen,
> or the newsgroup name in square brackets in the subject line. *Sorry.

--
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spinoza1111
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      12-23-2009
On Dec 23, 6:55*am, "Dennis \(Icarus\)" <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:
> "spinoza1111" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>
> > On Nov 7, 12:56 am, Seebs <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> <snip>
>
> > Your care was on display as a moderator when you allowed a post that
> > accidentally involved Seibel. Why is it OK for you to pretend to be a
> > newsgroup moderator? You're not competent at the job.

>
> Why did you make the error in the first place?
> It is your responsibility to review and edit your posts prior to sending.


Oooooohhhh....personal Responsibility. Yes, of course. It's also the
responsibility of the "moderator" of a "moderated" group to "moderate"
the "group": cf. comp.risks for an example of proper moderation. Peter
Neumann, when sent something questionable, has the personal courage
and maturity to in all cases use email to communicate about posts with
errors, but Seebach, who took the job as moderator (as far as I can
tell) to appear to be more qualified than he is, is afraid to do this.

In real publication, fact checkers and editors catch the inevitable
confusions and errors that creep in. The poster to a moderated group
has the right to expect this of the moderator.

I believe Seebach saw the error and posted the submission anyway as a
stunt. I could have made the error deliberately to show his
incompetence as a stunt as well. But such stunts are a waste of time
and render these groups useless for their intended purpose.

The matter at hand is whether Seebach and Feather libeled Schildt
while making the same type of errors they accuse Schildt of making,
and "the 'heap' is a DOS term" demonstrates this to be the case.
>
> Dennis
>
> .
> --
> comp.lang.c.moderated - moderation address: (E-Mail Removed) -- you must
> have an appropriate newsgroups line in your header for your mail to be seen,
> or the newsgroup name in square brackets in the subject line. *Sorry.

--
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or the newsgroup name in square brackets in the subject line. Sorry.
 
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spinoza1111
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      12-23-2009
On Dec 23, 7:52*am, Seebs <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> On 2009-12-22, Dennis (Icarus) <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
> > Why did you make the error in the first place?
> > It is your responsibility to review and edit your posts prior to sending.

>
> And again, I have no idea how I should have guessed that it was an
> error. *There is such a person as Peter Siebel, he's an Apress author,
> he was an English major... Even if I thought it WERE my job to determine
> whether people were posting sense, I can't imagine how I was supposed to
> realize that Spinoza had not only the name wrong, but other attributes
> as well, such that by amazing coincidence he used a name which matched the
> other attributes he picked.
>
> And frankly, really, if I were in the business of rejecting posts for
> containing obvious errors, we'd never have heard of Spinoza.
>
> FWIW, I don't plan to stop posting his perhaps-maybe-topical rants, but
> I don't expect anyone to refrain from killfiling him. *I know I have; he
> was funny briefly and has since ceased to amuse. *When I want comparably
> qualified opinions on Schildt's writing, I'll ask my cat.
>
> -s
> --
> Copyright 2009, all wrongs reversed. *Peter Seebach / (E-Mail Removed)://www.seebs.net/log/<-- lawsuits, religion, and funny pictureshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Game_(Scientology) <-- get educated!
> --
> comp.lang.c.moderated - moderation address: (E-Mail Removed) -- you must
> have an appropriate newsgroups line in your header for your mail to be seen,
> or the newsgroup name in square brackets in the subject line. *Sorry.


Peter, you seem to have very little real-world business experience,
because if you'd had such experience, you'd have learned to "never
knock the competition". I think you make Apress look bad with your
Schildt post, since, as I have said, the post has gone viral and is
the single source of all rumors about Schildt, because (as I have
said) Internet users confuse duplicate information with new
information.

I know you're not speaking as an Apress author in the Schildt post,
since you posted it before your publication, but that's how it
appears.

As it happened, Schildt wrote a book that for all of its flaws, actual
C programmers (mostly Microsoft) were able to use to do their jobs.
Had the book not been useful, the free market would have rejected it.
It would have had Richard's sales for C Unleashed.

When I was actively working with Apress (back in 2004), it seemed to
me that they had a great deal of gracious tolerance of a variety of
authorial voices. One author thanked his Lord and Savior Jesus Christ
in the preface.

However, I have learned since that time that because the norm for
people today is so very dysfunctional, there are some "authorial
voices" that should be silenced. NOT authors who make "mistakes", real
or imagined (especially not usenet posters who make mistakes and then
almost immediately post corrections). No, authors who

(1) Demonize other writers, allowing a single document to go viral

(2) Refuse as editors and moderators to get in touch with them to
clear things up, as in your cases where you refused to work with
McGraw Hill without being paid a probably unconscionable sum or where
you "moderate" without using email to fact-check and to edit

Perhaps had you been an English major like friend Seebach, or just a
truly cultivated person, you would have realized that there are
multiple ways of saying things. Herb wasn't saying that "there must be
a stack at low memory and a heap growing down" any more than the
teacher of geometry says that the right triangle of which the
Pythagorean theorem is true must have a certain size. "Authorial
voice" means that the author phrases things a certain way which
because of the nature of natural, as opposed to computer language, can
be misinterpreted.

Grow up. Learn how to review books with more tolerance. Or just don't.
Instead, get a real programming job in Asia and learn how real
programmers make and admit mistakes while tolerating alternate ways.
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Dennis \(Icarus\)
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      12-23-2009
"spinoza1111" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> On Dec 23, 6:55 am, "Dennis \(Icarus\)" <(E-Mail Removed)>
> wrote:
>> "spinoza1111" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>
>> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>
>> > On Nov 7, 12:56 am, Seebs <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>> <snip>
>>
>> > Your care was on display as a moderator when you allowed a post that
>> > accidentally involved Seibel. Why is it OK for you to pretend to be a
>> > newsgroup moderator? You're not competent at the job.

>>
>> Why did you make the error in the first place?
>> It is your responsibility to review and edit your posts prior to sending.

>
> Oooooohhhh....personal Responsibility. Yes, of course.


That's where you should've stopped.

>
> In real publication, fact checkers and editors catch the inevitable
> confusions and errors that creep in. The poster to a moderated group
> has the right to expect this of the moderator.


Not necessarily. You may want to read the comp.lang.c.moerated faq.
Also, in the books I've read, the author will take responsibility for any
errors, and not try to blame others.
It's usually in the acknowledgements/introduction section.

<snip>

Dennis

..
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Walter Banks
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      12-23-2009
spinoza1111 wrote:

> I think you make xxxxxx look bad with your
> Schildt post, since, as I have said, the post has gone viral and is
> the single source of all rumors about Schildt, because (as I have
> said) Internet users confuse duplicate information with new
> information.


No one has provided more duplicate information
on Schildt reviews than you have.

You have been relentless in making sure that Schildt
reviews should be read by everyone who reads
these newsgroups.

I can only assume you have some reason to promote
the Schildt reviews

w..
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spinoza1111
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      12-25-2009
On Dec 24, 3:16*am, Walter Banks <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> spinoza1111wrote:
> > I think you make xxxxxx look bad with your
> > Schildt post, since, as I have said, the post has gone viral and is
> > the single source of all rumors about Schildt, because (as I have
> > said) Internet users confuse duplicate information with new
> > information.

>
> No one has provided more duplicate information
> on Schildt reviews than you have.
>
> You have been relentless in making sure that Schildt
> reviews should be read by everyone who reads
> these newsgroups.
>
> I can only assume you have some reason to promote
> the Schildt reviews


There's no such thing as bad publicity. My own book royalties have
been increasing as people see me flamed.

If people revisit Schildt's books after realizing how thin the case
against him actually was, this benefits him.

Once you publish a computer book, you're in the public eye for good or
bad.
>
> w..
> --
> comp.lang.c.moderated - moderation address: (E-Mail Removed) -- you must
> have an appropriate newsgroups line in your header for your mail to be seen,
> or the newsgroup name in square brackets in the subject line. *Sorry.

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spinoza1111
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      12-25-2009
On Dec 24, 3:15*am, Richard Heathfield <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> In <(E-Mail Removed)>,spinoza1111wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> > It's also the
> > responsibility of the "moderator" of a "moderated" group to
> > "moderate" the "group": cf. comp.risks for an example of proper
> > moderation.

>
> Seebs: it is only very rarely that I am able to agree with the
> self-styled (E-Mail Removed), but this does seem to be one such
> occasion. I have only occasionally dipped into comp.risks, and never
> posted there as far as I can recall, but a quick Google search gives
> at least one indicator that the moderator is doing a grand job; it
> seems that not a single article byspinoza1111has ever been
> approved. It seems to be a very successful policy.


You're lying; see for example "The Total Information Awareness program
is a RISK! (Edward G. Nilges)" in Risks 22.24 at
http://lists.jammed.com/RISKS/2002/12/0003.html. In that post, I
critiqued an enormous Homeland Security boondoggle run by thugs like
you from a technical data base standpoint.

How does it feel to have your lack of credibility and vicious
dishonesty so completely exposed?

Peter Neumann, unlike Seebach, reads submissions and he has contacted
me with questions. Furthermore, he agreed in 2003 to be interviewed by
me on his memories of Dijkstra for my book.

Unfortunately, he is not getting any younger, and the new generation
of liars, fools and thugs (like you, Peter Seebach, and "quertyuiop"
at www.lamma.com.HK) are too dishonest, too careless, and too biased
to moderate "moderated" groups with any moderation or decency.

Asshole.


>
> --
> Richard Heathfield <http://www.cpax.org.uk>
> Email: -http://www. +rjh@
> "Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
> Sig line vacant - apply within
> --
> comp.lang.c.moderated - moderation address: (E-Mail Removed) -- you must
> have an appropriate newsgroups line in your header for your mail to be seen,
> or the newsgroup name in square brackets in the subject line. *Sorry.

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