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Every Proprietary Company Goes Bad Eventually

 
 
victor
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Posts: n/a
 
      11-26-2009
Allistar wrote:
> victor wrote:
>
>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>> In message <hek505$k6r$(E-Mail Removed)-september.org>, victor wrote:
>>>
>>>> So its a service issue on mobile phone browsers, nothing to do with
>>>> proprietary vs free software at all.
>>> Their browser doesn’t seem to support the use of alternative compression
>>> servers. And customers in China were forced to upgrade to the new version
>>> that used Chinese-based servers.

>> Then the users should change to an open source browser which supports
>> the "alternative compression servers" of which you speak.
>> I expect that whatever they do they are at the mercy of their mobile
>> phone company, not Opera.

>
> More to the point, they are at the mercy of their corrupt
> communist/socialist government. (Then again, so are we).


Thats news to me, I'm not having any problems with Opera Mini on my phone.
Unlike iPhone users who are banned from using anything but Safari.
 
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Lawrence D'Oliveiro
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Posts: n/a
 
      11-26-2009
In message <(E-Mail Removed)>, Allistar wrote:

> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>
>> In message <(E-Mail Removed)>, Allistar
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>
>>>> In message <hek505$k6r$(E-Mail Removed)-september.org>, victor wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> So its a service issue on mobile phone browsers, nothing to do with
>>>>> proprietary vs free software at all.
>>>>
>>>> Their browser doesn’t seem to support the use of alternative
>>>> compression servers. And customers in China were forced to upgrade to
>>>> the new version that used Chinese-based servers.
>>>
>>> What has that got to do with proprietary vs. open source though? The
>>> exact same issue could happen with an open source browser.

>>
>> No it couldn’t.

>
> Sure it could. An open source browser could be implemented such that there
> is no support for alternative compression servers.


No-one would even try.

> Once the open source community fixes this issue, customers in China would
> be forced to upgrade to the new version. Just like with a proprietary
> browser.


No-one would be “forced” to do anything—that’s the beauty of Free Software.
I think you spend too much time with proprietary software, otherwise you
wouldn’t think as you do.
 
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victor
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Posts: n/a
 
      11-26-2009
whoisthis wrote:
> In article <helm05$abv$(E-Mail Removed)-september.org>,
> victor <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> Allistar wrote:
>>> victor wrote:
>>>
>>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>> In message <hek505$k6r$(E-Mail Removed)-september.org>, victor wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> So its a service issue on mobile phone browsers, nothing to do with
>>>>>> proprietary vs free software at all.
>>>>> Their browser doesn’t seem to support the use of alternative compression
>>>>> servers. And customers in China were forced to upgrade to the new version
>>>>> that used Chinese-based servers.
>>>> Then the users should change to an open source browser which supports
>>>> the "alternative compression servers" of which you speak.
>>>> I expect that whatever they do they are at the mercy of their mobile
>>>> phone company, not Opera.
>>> More to the point, they are at the mercy of their corrupt
>>> communist/socialist government. (Then again, so are we).

>> Thats news to me, I'm not having any problems with Opera Mini on my phone.
>> Unlike iPhone users who are banned from using anything but Safari.

>
> Thats funny, a very quick look on the App store showed a number of
> browsers..... did you bother to check ?


Not Opera though.
Why is that ? Not approved by Apple maybe ?
 
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victor
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      11-26-2009
Allistar wrote:
> victor wrote:
>
>> Allistar wrote:
>>> victor wrote:
>>>
>>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>> In message <hek505$k6r$(E-Mail Removed)-september.org>, victor wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> So its a service issue on mobile phone browsers, nothing to do with
>>>>>> proprietary vs free software at all.
>>>>> Their browser doesn’t seem to support the use of alternative
>>>>> compression servers. And customers in China were forced to upgrade to
>>>>> the new version that used Chinese-based servers.
>>>> Then the users should change to an open source browser which supports
>>>> the "alternative compression servers" of which you speak.
>>>> I expect that whatever they do they are at the mercy of their mobile
>>>> phone company, not Opera.
>>> More to the point, they are at the mercy of their corrupt
>>> communist/socialist government. (Then again, so are we).

>> Thats news to me, I'm not having any problems with Opera Mini on my phone.

>
> Do you live in China, and have to be surrounded by "the great firewall"?


You were the one that claimed we are at their mercy.
I'm saying that no government is preventing me using Opera Mini on my
Nokia phone.
Apple won't approve it for the app store though so I can't use it on my
itouch

If you connect through a cellphone you are limited by the cellphone isp
regardless of the software on the phone.
If there was a loophole that violated China's laws, then the connection
would be blocked and Opera would need to use servers inside the firewall.
ToS restrictions on mobiles are nothing new.
 
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victor
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      11-26-2009
Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> In message <(E-Mail Removed)>, Allistar wrote:
>
>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>
>>> In message <(E-Mail Removed)>, Allistar
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In message <hek505$k6r$(E-Mail Removed)-september.org>, victor wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> So its a service issue on mobile phone browsers, nothing to do with
>>>>>> proprietary vs free software at all.
>>>>> Their browser doesn’t seem to support the use of alternative
>>>>> compression servers. And customers in China were forced to upgrade to
>>>>> the new version that used Chinese-based servers.
>>>> What has that got to do with proprietary vs. open source though? The
>>>> exact same issue could happen with an open source browser.
>>> No it couldn’t.

>> Sure it could. An open source browser could be implemented such that there
>> is no support for alternative compression servers.

>
> No-one would even try.
>
>> Once the open source community fixes this issue, customers in China would
>> be forced to upgrade to the new version. Just like with a proprietary
>> browser.

>
> No-one would be “forced” to do anything—that’s the beauty of Free Software.
> I think you spend too much time with proprietary software, otherwise you
> wouldn’t think as you do.


And thats completely irrelevant.
Symbian is free software, the nokia browser is free software, they can
still be blocked.
The un upgraded International version of Opera still won't connect
because the Opera servers are blocked. The upgraded Chinese version
connects with the firewalled servers.
Its not an issue with proprietary code, changing the code would fix nothing.
 
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Sailor Sam
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      11-26-2009
victor wrote:
> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>> In message <(E-Mail Removed)>, Allistar
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>
>>>> In message <(E-Mail Removed)>, Allistar
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> In message <hek505$k6r$(E-Mail Removed)-september.org>, victor wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So its a service issue on mobile phone browsers, nothing to do with
>>>>>>> proprietary vs free software at all.
>>>>>> Their browser doesn’t seem to support the use of alternative
>>>>>> compression servers. And customers in China were forced to upgrade to
>>>>>> the new version that used Chinese-based servers.
>>>>> What has that got to do with proprietary vs. open source though? The
>>>>> exact same issue could happen with an open source browser.
>>>> No it couldn’t.
>>> Sure it could. An open source browser could be implemented such that
>>> there
>>> is no support for alternative compression servers.

>>
>> No-one would even try.
>>
>>> Once the open source community fixes this issue, customers in China
>>> would
>>> be forced to upgrade to the new version. Just like with a proprietary
>>> browser.

>>
>> No-one would be “forced” to do anything—that’s the beauty of Free
>> Software. I think you spend too much time with proprietary software,
>> otherwise you wouldn’t think as you do.

>
> And thats completely irrelevant.
> Symbian is free software, the nokia browser is free software, they can
> still be blocked.
> The un upgraded International version of Opera still won't connect
> because the Opera servers are blocked. The upgraded Chinese version
> connects with the firewalled servers.
> Its not an issue with proprietary code, changing the code would fix
> nothing.


Changing the code to use routes that aren't firewalled, however, remains
an option.
 
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victor
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      11-27-2009
Allistar wrote:
> victor wrote:
>
>> Allistar wrote:
>>> victor wrote:
>>>
>>>> Allistar wrote:
>>>>> victor wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <hek505$k6r$(E-Mail Removed)-september.org>, victor wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So its a service issue on mobile phone browsers, nothing to do with
>>>>>>>> proprietary vs free software at all.
>>>>>>> Their browser doesn’t seem to support the use of alternative
>>>>>>> compression servers. And customers in China were forced to upgrade to
>>>>>>> the new version that used Chinese-based servers.
>>>>>> Then the users should change to an open source browser which supports
>>>>>> the "alternative compression servers" of which you speak.
>>>>>> I expect that whatever they do they are at the mercy of their mobile
>>>>>> phone company, not Opera.
>>>>> More to the point, they are at the mercy of their corrupt
>>>>> communist/socialist government. (Then again, so are we).
>>>> Thats news to me, I'm not having any problems with Opera Mini on my
>>>> phone.
>>> Do you live in China, and have to be surrounded by "the great firewall"?

>> You were the one that claimed we are at their mercy.

>
> By "their" I mean "our government". I wasn't referring specifically to
> browser running on a phone, I was speaking more in general terms of the
> unnatural power the state have over us as supposedly free people.
>
>> I'm saying that no government is preventing me using Opera Mini on my
>> Nokia phone.
>> Apple won't approve it for the app store though so I can't use it on my
>> itouch

>
> Yes - that's what you get for choosing a closed platform, a platform where
> the develop decides what runs on it and what does not. You could always
> jailbreak it.
>

It wouldn't make any difference in this case, I'm sure Opera will get
accepted eventually, its available for MacOSX.
The page loads are noticeably quicker, and having bookmark syncing and a
really excellent tab interface is really cool.
I like how the Apple fanbois dump on free software, yet when kickass
proprietary software is excluded from their shiny iphone app store by
anti competitive practice at Apple thats got a perfectly rational
explanation (that they just made up) too.
 
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Sailor Sam
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      11-27-2009
whoisthis wrote:
> In article <hen211$akc$(E-Mail Removed)-september.org>,
> Sailor Sam <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> victor wrote:
>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>> In message <(E-Mail Removed)>, Allistar
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> In message <(E-Mail Removed)>, Allistar
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In message <hek505$k6r$(E-Mail Removed)-september.org>, victor wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So its a service issue on mobile phone browsers, nothing to do with
>>>>>>>>> proprietary vs free software at all.
>>>>>>>> Their browser doesn’t seem to support the use of alternative
>>>>>>>> compression servers. And customers in China were forced to upgrade to
>>>>>>>> the new version that used Chinese-based servers.
>>>>>>> What has that got to do with proprietary vs. open source though? The
>>>>>>> exact same issue could happen with an open source browser.
>>>>>> No it couldn’t.
>>>>> Sure it could. An open source browser could be implemented such that
>>>>> there
>>>>> is no support for alternative compression servers.
>>>> No-one would even try.
>>>>
>>>>> Once the open source community fixes this issue, customers in China
>>>>> would
>>>>> be forced to upgrade to the new version. Just like with a proprietary
>>>>> browser.
>>>> No-one would be “forced” to do anything—that’s the beauty of Free
>>>> Software. I think you spend too much time with proprietary software,
>>>> otherwise you wouldn’t think as you do.
>>> And thats completely irrelevant.
>>> Symbian is free software, the nokia browser is free software, they can
>>> still be blocked.
>>> The un upgraded International version of Opera still won't connect
>>> because the Opera servers are blocked. The upgraded Chinese version
>>> connects with the firewalled servers.
>>> Its not an issue with proprietary code, changing the code would fix
>>> nothing.

>> Changing the code to use routes that aren't firewalled, however, remains
>> an option.

>
> until they too are blocked


At which point, what can you do, oh wait, change the code again for new
routes. And so on to infinity.

Are you another one that doesn't understand how malleable code is?
 
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victor
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      11-27-2009
whoisthis wrote:
> In article <hen8lp$cjd$(E-Mail Removed)-september.org>,
> victor <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:


>> It wouldn't make any difference in this case, I'm sure Opera will get
>> accepted eventually, its available for MacOSX.
>> The page loads are noticeably quicker, and having bookmark syncing and a
>> really excellent tab interface is really cool.
>> I like how the Apple fanbois dump on free software, yet when kickass
>> proprietary software is excluded from their shiny iphone app store by
>> anti competitive practice at Apple thats got a perfectly rational
>> explanation (that they just made up) too.

>
> Opera is available for OSX because there is no rule about any
> application being able to run arbitrary code, there always has been on
> the iPhone (HTML being that arbitrary code).


It looks like a bogus policy if the software they exclude runs on every
other smart-phone.
I expect they will sort it out as their product line matures, having a
high percentage of their customers "jailbreaking" their phones to get
extra functionality does look like they haven't got it quite right yet.

 
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Sailor Sam
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      11-27-2009
whoisthis wrote:
> In article <henf51$1dp$(E-Mail Removed)-september.org>,
> Sailor Sam <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> whoisthis wrote:
>>> In article <hen211$akc$(E-Mail Removed)-september.org>,
>>> Sailor Sam <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>>
>>>> victor wrote:
>>>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>>> In message <(E-Mail Removed)>, Allistar
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In message <(E-Mail Removed)>, Allistar
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> In message <hek505$k6r$(E-Mail Removed)-september.org>, victor wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> So its a service issue on mobile phone browsers, nothing to do with
>>>>>>>>>>> proprietary vs free software at all.
>>>>>>>>>> Their browser doesn⤁t seem to support the use of alternative
>>>>>>>>>> compression servers. And customers in China were forced to upgrade
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> the new version that used Chinese-based servers.
>>>>>>>>> What has that got to do with proprietary vs. open source though? The
>>>>>>>>> exact same issue could happen with an open source browser.
>>>>>>>> No it couldn⤁t.
>>>>>>> Sure it could. An open source browser could be implemented such that
>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>> is no support for alternative compression servers.
>>>>>> No-one would even try.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Once the open source community fixes this issue, customers in China
>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>> be forced to upgrade to the new version. Just like with a proprietary
>>>>>>> browser.
>>>>>> No-one would be ⤦forced? to do anything⤲that⤁s the beauty of
>>>>>> Free
>>>>>> Software. I think you spend too much time with proprietary software,
>>>>>> otherwise you wouldn⤁t think as you do.
>>>>> And thats completely irrelevant.
>>>>> Symbian is free software, the nokia browser is free software, they can
>>>>> still be blocked.
>>>>> The un upgraded International version of Opera still won't connect
>>>>> because the Opera servers are blocked. The upgraded Chinese version
>>>>> connects with the firewalled servers.
>>>>> Its not an issue with proprietary code, changing the code would fix
>>>>> nothing.
>>>> Changing the code to use routes that aren't firewalled, however, remains
>>>> an option.
>>> until they too are blocked

>> At which point, what can you do, oh wait, change the code again for new
>> routes. And so on to infinity.
>>
>> Are you another one that doesn't understand how malleable code is?

>
> Yeah, I write assembler.


If that's true, why are you (and Allistar) so thick when it comes to code?
 
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