Dimdows OEM Licence Piracy

Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> In message <hd2het$i30$>, victor wrote:
>
>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>> 2. Authorized Distribution and Acceptance. To distribute the Software or
>>> Hardware in this Pack, you must be a System Builder and accept this
>>> license. “System Builder� means an original equipment manufacturer, an
>>> assembler, a refurbisher, or a software pre-installer that sells the
>>> Computer System(s) to a third party. You accept this license when you
>>> open this Pack. If you choose not to accept this license, promptly
>>> return the unopened Pack to your distributor. You may only distribute
>>> unopened Packs within your territory. ... Individual Hardware or
>>> Software units may not be returned after the Pack is opened.
>>> ...
>>> 5. Distribution.
>>> a. Software Preinstallation.
>>> i. For each unit of Software in the Pack, you must pre-install one
>>> copy
>>> of the Software on a Customer System prior to distribution. If
>>> the Software includes more than one language version, you must
>>> install only one language version.
>>> ii. For such pre-installation, you must use the OPK provided in the
>>> pack or otherwise made available by us. You may use the
>>> information, tools and materials contained in the OPK solely to
>>> preinstall the Software in accordance with the OPK. ... You may
>>> not distribute the OPK to the end user.
>>> ...
>>> b. End User License Terms. You must distribute the Software pursuant to
>>> the end user license terms (“License Terms�) that accompany it.
>>> Under the License Terms, you are the licensor.
>> This license lays out the conditions of distribution only.
>> You don't have to sell the computer to a third party.
>
> Yes you do--read the above. A “System Builder� is NOT allowed to use the
> installation themselves. Just to make it even clearer:
>
> 4. Limited License. If you comply with the terms of this license, Microsoft
> grants you a limited license to distribute the Software or Hardware.
> Except as granted in this license, you may not use, run, copy, modify,
> display, distribute, repackage or reassemble the Software, Hardware, OPK
> or any part of them.
>
> Has that sunk in yet?
>
>> There is no qualifying criteria that defines a system builder ...
>
> Yes there are, it’s all spelled out in section 2 that I quoted above.
>
>> And go shove all that ad hom bullshit up your sanctimonious arse.
>
> Getting a bit tetchy about being a software pirate, perhaps?
>
> Like I said, to be ignorant is one thing, but to wilfully remain so when
> your ignorance is pointed out to you ...
>
> ... makes you a fool.
>

Your comprehension is very poor.
But we already knew that.
Never mind, its your problem.

victor

In message <hd3dtr$ok0$>, victor wrote:

> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>
>> In message <hd2het$i30$>, victor wrote:
>>
>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>> 2. Authorized Distribution and Acceptance. To distribute the Software
>>>> or
>>>> Hardware in this Pack, you must be a System Builder and accept this
>>>> license. “System Builder� means an original equipment manufacturer,
>>>> an assembler, a refurbisher, or a software pre-installer that sells
>>>> the Computer System(s) to a third party. You accept this license
>>>> when you open this Pack. If you choose not to accept this license,
>>>> promptly return the unopened Pack to your distributor. You may only
>>>> distribute unopened Packs within your territory. ... Individual
>>>> Hardware or Software units may not be returned after the Pack is
>>>> opened.
>>>> ...
>>>> 5. Distribution.
>>>> a. Software Preinstallation.
>>>> i. For each unit of Software in the Pack, you must pre-install one
>>>> copy of the Software on a Customer System prior to
>>>> distribution. If the Software includes more than one language
>>>> version, you must install only one language version.
>>>> ii. For such pre-installation, you must use the OPK provided in the
>>>> pack or otherwise made available by us. You may use the
>>>> information, tools and materials contained in the OPK solely to
>>>> preinstall the Software in accordance with the OPK. ... You may
>>>> not distribute the OPK to the end user.
>>>> ...
>>>> b. End User License Terms. You must distribute the Software pursuant
>>>> to the end user license terms (“License Terms�) that accompany it.
>>>> Under the License Terms, you are the licensor.
>>
>>> This license lays out the conditions of distribution only.
>>> You don't have to sell the computer to a third party.
>>
>> Yes you do--read the above. A “System Builder� is NOT allowed to use the
>> installation themselves. Just to make it even clearer:
>>
>> 4. Limited License. If you comply with the terms of this license,
>> Microsoft grants you a limited license to distribute the Software or
>> Hardware. Except as granted in this license, you may not use, run,
>> copy, modify, display, distribute, repackage or reassemble the
>> Software, Hardware, OPK or any part of them.
>>
>> Has that sunk in yet?
>>
>>> There is no qualifying criteria that defines a system builder ...
>>
>> Yes there are, it’s all spelled out in section 2 that I quoted above.
>>
>>> And go shove all that ad hom bullshit up your sanctimonious arse.
>>
>> Getting a bit tetchy about being a software pirate, perhaps?
>>
>> Like I said, to be ignorant is one thing, but to wilfully remain so when
>> your ignorance is pointed out to you ...
>>
>> ... makes you a fool.
>
> Your comprehension is very poor.
> But we already knew that.
> Never mind, its your problem.

Man, I have not seen such a bad case of “la-la-la, I can’t hear you� in a
long time.

You’d tell this guy to get out of the road, there’s a car coming, and he’d
probably insist he never agreed to those laws of physics.

Lawrence D'Oliveiro

Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> In message <hd2het$i30$>, victor wrote:
>
>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>> 2. Authorized Distribution and Acceptance. To distribute the Software or
>>> Hardware in this Pack, you must be a System Builder and accept this
>>> license. “System Builder” means an original equipment manufacturer, an
>>> assembler, a refurbisher, or a software pre-installer that sells the
>>> Computer System(s) to a third party. You accept this license when you
>>> open this Pack. If you choose not to accept this license, promptly
>>> return the unopened Pack to your distributor. You may only distribute
>>> unopened Packs within your territory. ... Individual Hardware or
>>> Software units may not be returned after the Pack is opened.
>>> ...
>>> 5. Distribution.
>>> a. Software Preinstallation.
>>> i. For each unit of Software in the Pack, you must pre-install one
>>> copy
>>> of the Software on a Customer System prior to distribution. If
>>> the Software includes more than one language version, you must
>>> install only one language version.
>>> ii. For such pre-installation, you must use the OPK provided in the
>>> pack or otherwise made available by us. You may use the
>>> information, tools and materials contained in the OPK solely to
>>> preinstall the Software in accordance with the OPK. ... You may
>>> not distribute the OPK to the end user.
>>> ...
>>> b. End User License Terms. You must distribute the Software pursuant to
>>> the end user license terms (“License Terms”) that accompany it.
>>> Under the License Terms, you are the licensor.
>> This license lays out the conditions of distribution only.
>> You don't have to sell the computer to a third party.
>
> Yes you do--read the above. A “System Builder” is NOT allowed to use the
> installation themselves. Just to make it even clearer:
>
> 4. Limited License. If you comply with the terms of this license, Microsoft
> grants you a limited license to distribute the Software or Hardware.
> Except as granted in this license, you may not use, run, copy, modify,
> display, distribute, repackage or reassemble the Software, Hardware, OPK
> or any part of them.
>
> Has that sunk in yet?
>
That just says that you shouldn't do anything other than install it on a
system. eg reengineer it. It doesn't say anything about not being able
to use it, for example, in your business. If that were so, Dell would
have use Lenovo or HP PCs in their business.

In fact, none of the big manufacturers actually install the software on
the machines they build - the disks come from the disk manufacturer with
the OS image already installed.

Cheers,

Cliff


--

The Internet is interesting in that although the nicknames may change,
the same old personalities show through.

Enkidu

Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> In message <hd3dtr$ok0$>, victor wrote:
>
>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>
>>> In message <hd2het$i30$>, victor wrote:
>>>
>>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>> 2. Authorized Distribution and Acceptance. To distribute the Software
>>>>> or
>>>>> Hardware in this Pack, you must be a System Builder and accept this
>>>>> license. “System Builder� means an original equipment manufacturer,
>>>>> an assembler, a refurbisher, or a software pre-installer that sells
>>>>> the Computer System(s) to a third party. You accept this license
>>>>> when you open this Pack. If you choose not to accept this license,
>>>>> promptly return the unopened Pack to your distributor. You may only
>>>>> distribute unopened Packs within your territory. ... Individual
>>>>> Hardware or Software units may not be returned after the Pack is
>>>>> opened.
>>>>> ...
>>>>> 5. Distribution.
>>>>> a. Software Preinstallation.
>>>>> i. For each unit of Software in the Pack, you must pre-install one
>>>>> copy of the Software on a Customer System prior to
>>>>> distribution. If the Software includes more than one language
>>>>> version, you must install only one language version.
>>>>> ii. For such pre-installation, you must use the OPK provided in the
>>>>> pack or otherwise made available by us. You may use the
>>>>> information, tools and materials contained in the OPK solely to
>>>>> preinstall the Software in accordance with the OPK. ... You may
>>>>> not distribute the OPK to the end user.
>>>>> ...
>>>>> b. End User License Terms. You must distribute the Software pursuant
>>>>> to the end user license terms (“License Terms�) that accompany it.
>>>>> Under the License Terms, you are the licensor.
>>>> This license lays out the conditions of distribution only.
>>>> You don't have to sell the computer to a third party.
>>> Yes you do--read the above. A “System Builder� is NOT allowed to use the
>>> installation themselves. Just to make it even clearer:
>>>
>>> 4. Limited License. If you comply with the terms of this license,
>>> Microsoft grants you a limited license to distribute the Software or
>>> Hardware. Except as granted in this license, you may not use, run,
>>> copy, modify, display, distribute, repackage or reassemble the
>>> Software, Hardware, OPK or any part of them.
>>>
>>> Has that sunk in yet?
>>>
>>>> There is no qualifying criteria that defines a system builder ...
>>> Yes there are, it’s all spelled out in section 2 that I quoted above.
>>>
>>>> And go shove all that ad hom bullshit up your sanctimonious arse.
>>> Getting a bit tetchy about being a software pirate, perhaps?
>>>
>>> Like I said, to be ignorant is one thing, but to wilfully remain so when
>>> your ignorance is pointed out to you ...
>>>
>>> ... makes you a fool.
>> Your comprehension is very poor.
>> But we already knew that.
>> Never mind, its your problem.
>
> Man, I have not seen such a bad case of “la-la-la, I can’t hear you� in a
> long time.
>
> You’d tell this guy to get out of the road, there’s a car coming, and he’d
> probably insist he never agreed to those laws of physics.

You are the Chicken Little of this newsgroup.
Microsoft wrote this license for the OPK to specify the conditions of
the subsequent distribution of the pre-installation.
They cannot stop any pre installer activating licenses for their own use
they are just specifying that once activated, it isn't transferable.
The OS is paid for, there has been no copyright infringement
("piracy!!!!!!"). The license is locked to the machine.
OTOH a retail license can be transferred to another machine AFAIK.

victor

In message <hd4k98$re2$>, victor wrote:

> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>
>> 2. Authorized Distribution and Acceptance. To distribute the Software
>> or Hardware in this Pack, you must be a System Builder and accept
>> this license. “System Builder� means an original equipment
>> manufacturer, an assembler, a refurbisher, or a software
>> pre-installer that sells the Computer System(s) to a third party.
>> You accept this license when you open this Pack. If you choose not
>> to accept this license, promptly return the unopened Pack to your
>> distributor. You may only distribute unopened Packs within your
>> territory. ... Individual Hardware or Software units may not be
>> returned after the Pack is opened.
>> ...
>> 4. Limited License. If you comply with the terms of this license,
>> Microsoft grants you a limited license to distribute the Software or
>> Hardware. Except as granted in this license, you may not use, run,
>> copy, modify, display, distribute, repackage or reassemble the
>> Software, Hardware, OPK or any part of them.
>> ...
>> 5. Distribution.
>> a. Software Preinstallation.
>> i. For each unit of Software in the Pack, you must pre-install
>> one copy of the Software on a Customer System prior to
>> distribution. If the Software includes more than one language
>> version, you must install only one language version.
>> ii. For such pre-installation, you must use the OPK provided in
>> the pack or otherwise made available by us. You may use the
>> information, tools and materials contained in the OPK solely
>> to preinstall the Software in accordance with the OPK. ...
>> You may not distribute the OPK to the end user.
>> ...
>> b. End User License Terms. You must distribute the Software
>> pursuant to the end user license terms (“License Terms�) that
>> accompany it. Under the License Terms, you are the licensor.
>
> Microsoft wrote this license for the OPK to specify the conditions of
> the subsequent distribution of the pre-installation.

That wasn't the OPK licence I was quoting above, it was the OEM licence.

> They cannot stop any pre installer activating licenses for their own use
> ...

They say they can. It's spelled out in the licence agreement extensively
quoted above. Which presumably their lawyers have told them is binding. You
got some legal advice which says different?

> they are just specifying that once activated, it isn't transferable.

You DO realize we’re talking about the licence applicable to the “System
Builder� who is doing the installation, right?

> The OS is paid for, there has been no copyright infringement ...

Some people might even say a crime has been committed.

Lawrence D'Oliveiro

Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> In message <hd4k98$re2$>, victor wrote:
>
>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>> 2. Authorized Distribution and Acceptance. To distribute the Software
>>> or Hardware in this Pack, you must be a System Builder and accept
>>> this license. “System Builder� means an original equipment
>>> manufacturer, an assembler, a refurbisher, or a software
>>> pre-installer that sells the Computer System(s) to a third party.
>>> You accept this license when you open this Pack. If you choose not
>>> to accept this license, promptly return the unopened Pack to your
>>> distributor. You may only distribute unopened Packs within your
>>> territory. ... Individual Hardware or Software units may not be
>>> returned after the Pack is opened.
>>> ...
>>> 4. Limited License. If you comply with the terms of this license,
>>> Microsoft grants you a limited license to distribute the Software or
>>> Hardware. Except as granted in this license, you may not use, run,
>>> copy, modify, display, distribute, repackage or reassemble the
>>> Software, Hardware, OPK or any part of them.
>>> ...
>>> 5. Distribution.
>>> a. Software Preinstallation.
>>> i. For each unit of Software in the Pack, you must pre-install
>>> one copy of the Software on a Customer System prior to
>>> distribution. If the Software includes more than one language
>>> version, you must install only one language version.
>>> ii. For such pre-installation, you must use the OPK provided in
>>> the pack or otherwise made available by us. You may use the
>>> information, tools and materials contained in the OPK solely
>>> to preinstall the Software in accordance with the OPK. ...
>>> You may not distribute the OPK to the end user.
>>> ...
>>> b. End User License Terms. You must distribute the Software
>>> pursuant to the end user license terms (“License Terms�) that
>>> accompany it. Under the License Terms, you are the licensor.
>> Microsoft wrote this license for the OPK to specify the conditions of
>> the subsequent distribution of the pre-installation.
>
> That wasn't the OPK licence I was quoting above, it was the OEM licence.
>
>> They cannot stop any pre installer activating licenses for their own use
>> ...
>
> They say they can. It's spelled out in the licence agreement extensively
> quoted above.

They have specified that they allow distribution to a third party when
the conditions of the license are met, not that they deny the installer
the right to activate and use the pre-installed software themselves. Its
a license to distribute.

Which presumably their lawyers have told them is binding. You
> got some legal advice which says different?

You are the one making the legal threats which you can't back up.
You should be able to produce an explicit prohibition on use rather than
a clause granting permission to distribute

>
>> they are just specifying that once activated, it isn't transferable.
>
> You DO realize we’re talking about the licence applicable to the “System
> Builder� who is doing the installation, right?
>
>> The OS is paid for, there has been no copyright infringement ...
>
> Some people might even say a crime has been committed.

They would also have to come up with the law which has been broken, and
the authority to prosecute the offence

victor

In message <hd50kf$rth$>, victor wrote:

> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>
>> 2. Authorized Distribution and Acceptance. To distribute the Software
>> or Hardware in this Pack, you must be a System Builder and accept
>> this license. “System Builder� means an original equipment
>> manufacturer, an assembler, a refurbisher, or a software
>> pre-installer that sells the Computer System(s) to a third party.
>> You accept this license when you open this Pack. If you choose not
>> to accept this license, promptly return the unopened Pack to your
>> distributor. You may only distribute unopened Packs within your
>> territory. ... Individual Hardware or Software units may not be
>> returned after the Pack is opened.
>> ...
>> 4. Limited License. If you comply with the terms of this license,
>> Microsoft grants you a limited license to distribute the Software or
>> Hardware. Except as granted in this license, you may not use, run,
>> copy, modify, display, distribute, repackage or reassemble the
>> Software, Hardware, OPK or any part of them.
>> ...
>> 5. Distribution.
>> a. Software Preinstallation.
>> i. For each unit of Software in the Pack, you must pre-install
>> one copy of the Software on a Customer System prior to
>> distribution. If the Software includes more than one language
>> version, you must install only one language version.
>> ii. For such pre-installation, you must use the OPK provided in
>> the pack or otherwise made available by us. You may use the
>> information, tools and materials contained in the OPK solely
>> to preinstall the Software in accordance with the OPK. ...
>> You may not distribute the OPK to the end user.
>> ...
>> b. End User License Terms. You must distribute the Software
>> pursuant to the end user license terms (“License Terms�) that
>> accompany it. Under the License Terms, you are the licensor.
>
> They have specified that they allow distribution to a third party when
> the conditions of the license are met, not that they deny the installer
> the right to activate and use the pre-installed software themselves.

Yes they do. It's all spelled out above: note the part in 5b where it says
“you must distribute�. Further note part 4 which grants you the “license to
distribute�, and further says “except as granted in this license ... you may
not use ... the Software�. And nowhere else in the licence does it say you
can use the software for your own purposes. QED.

> You are the one making the legal threats which you can't back up.

1) I’m not making any legal threats. Just pointing out simple facts.
2) I have backed up everything I’ve said. You are the one who keeps
repeating your denials. To be ignorant is one thing, but to refuse to be
enlightened when your ignorance is pointed out to you, just makes you look
foolish.

> You should be able to produce an explicit prohibition on use rather than
> a clause granting permission to distribute

It’s all spelled out above: you can install and distribute the software, you
cannot use the software yourself. Plain as day.

Lawrence D'Oliveiro

In message <11b7nhve08tbh$.12aba33t6eg77$.>, Bret wrote:

> Read it again.

Please, not you too. We've been through this!

Lawrence D'Oliveiro

Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> In message <11b7nhve08tbh$.12aba33t6eg77$.>, Bret wrote:
>
>> Read it again.
>
> Please, not you too. We've been through this!

You need to read it again.
All it does is define how you distribute the pre-installed copy to a
third party, it does not say you may not activate it and use yourself.

victor

Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> In message <hd50kf$rth$>, victor wrote:
>
>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>
>>> 2. Authorized Distribution and Acceptance. To distribute the Software
>>> or Hardware in this Pack, you must be a System Builder and accept
>>> this license. “System Builder� means an original equipment
>>> manufacturer, an assembler, a refurbisher, or a software
>>> pre-installer that sells the Computer System(s) to a third party.
>>> You accept this license when you open this Pack. If you choose not
>>> to accept this license, promptly return the unopened Pack to your
>>> distributor. You may only distribute unopened Packs within your
>>> territory. ... Individual Hardware or Software units may not be
>>> returned after the Pack is opened.
>>> ...
>>> 4. Limited License. If you comply with the terms of this license,
>>> Microsoft grants you a limited license to distribute the Software or
>>> Hardware. Except as granted in this license, you may not use, run,
>>> copy, modify, display, distribute, repackage or reassemble the
>>> Software, Hardware, OPK or any part of them.
>>> ...
>>> 5. Distribution.
>>> a. Software Preinstallation.
>>> i. For each unit of Software in the Pack, you must pre-install
>>> one copy of the Software on a Customer System prior to
>>> distribution. If the Software includes more than one language
>>> version, you must install only one language version.
>>> ii. For such pre-installation, you must use the OPK provided in
>>> the pack or otherwise made available by us. You may use the
>>> information, tools and materials contained in the OPK solely
>>> to preinstall the Software in accordance with the OPK. ...
>>> You may not distribute the OPK to the end user.
>>> ...
>>> b. End User License Terms. You must distribute the Software
>>> pursuant to the end user license terms (“License Terms�) that
>>> accompany it. Under the License Terms, you are the licensor.
>> They have specified that they allow distribution to a third party when
>> the conditions of the license are met, not that they deny the installer
>> the right to activate and use the pre-installed software themselves.
>
> Yes they do. It's all spelled out above: note the part in 5b where it says
> “you must distribute�. Further note part 4 which grants you the “license to
> distribute�, and further says “except as granted in this license ... you may
> not use ... the Software�. And nowhere else in the licence does it say you
> can use the software for your own purposes. QED.
>


You took three words out of context.

"You must distribute the Software pursuant to the end user license terms
(“License Terms�) that accompany it. Under the License Terms, you are
the licensor."

The license sets out the conditions under which the installer may
distribute the pre-install, it does not prohibit the installer from
activating it and registering it themselves

victor