«

Daniel Fetchinson <fetchin...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Yes, this is about the right kind of response I think everybody
> deserves who puts energy/enthusiasm/effort/time into putting together
> a python-related forum.

So what's the right kind of response deserved by those who put energy/
enthusiasm/effort/time into sustaining _this_ python-related forum?
Accusations of hostility? Second-guessing their intentions?

What right do you have to demand different behaviour from that which
you yourself have demonstrated?

I think it's long past the point where you could contain everyone who
uses Python into a single community even if you tried.

Besides, everyone knows about python-forum.org, right?

On 11/5/09 3:25 AM, Ben Finney wrote:
Please, be more specific. As I said earlier in this thread, a “forum”
> could be a mailing list, a Usenet newsgroup, a walled-garden web
> application, an IRC channel, or a face-to-face meeting in a pub.
>
> So speaking of comp.lang.python as though it's *not* a forum is
> confusing. Please choose a term that makes it clear why what one is
> speaking about is distinct from the comp.lang.python forum.

Ok, when speaking about "forums" I meant a web-accessible public
discussion group, something like those based on phpBB or Invision.

But, as they correctly told me, this newgroup/mailing list is already
web-accessible via Google Groups, so there would be no need for other
web-based mirrors.


--
Alan Franzoni
contact me at public@[mysurname].eu

> I think it's long past the point where you could contain everyone who
> uses Python into a single community even if you tried.
>
> Besides, everyone knows about python-forum.org, right?

Well, no, I actually didn't

There! Another fragmenter!

Cheers,
Daniel

--
Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown

On 5 Nov, 12:47, Alan Franzoni <doesnotex...@franzoni.invalid> wrote:
>
> Ok, when speaking about "forums" I meant a web-accessible public
> discussion group, something like those based on phpBB or Invision.
>
> But, as they correctly told me, this newgroup/mailing list is already
> web-accessible via Google Groups, so there would be no need for other
> web-based mirrors.

I think that the community should try and make people more aware of
the options. For example:

http://www.python.org/community/lists/
http://wiki.python.org/moin/MailingListsAndNewsgroups

(These resources need work, of course, and I encourage people to edit
the Wiki-based resources and make them better.)

Certainly, it's possible to read existing discussion venues - to avoid
the overloaded term "forum" - using Web browsers, and I've seen
Nabble promoted in some communities for this very purpose when people
wanted to set up a "Web forum" because they didn't like mailing lists.

I find Web forums inefficient, often full of "low-density" content
(which then clogs up search results), and many of them give the
impression that they won't be around for very long anyway. That said,
there can still be understandable reasons why people want to have such
forums, not limited to cultivating a small-scale community with an
emphasis on getting to know others who are at the same level of
expertise, typically with a social dimension that probably seems
superfluous to those of us who use comp.lang.python and prefer that
the discussion mostly remains focused on the topic of the group.

Paul

George Oliver wrote:

> I think it's long past the point where you could contain everyone who
> uses Python into a single community even if you tried.
>
> Besides, everyone knows about python-forum.org, right?

Or ohloh.net . Unless people use multiple pen names, there's a gang of
Python developers there who don't hang out here. "stani" is the only name I
recognize.

Mel.

On Nov 4, 5:28*pm, Alan Franzoni <doesnotex...@franzoni.invalid>
wrote:
> On 11/2/09 3:44 PM, Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
>
> > Being from germany, I can say that we *have* this fragmentation, and
> > frankly: I don't like it. I prefer my communication via NNTP/ML, and not
> > with those visually rather noisy and IMHO suboptimal forums. E.g. it
>
> That's right... forums, although more "accessible" to all the people who
> can't/doesn't want to use specific email or nntp clients, are quite slow
> to use.
>
> But I think Ubuntu forums support threads and are kind of "channeled"
> between ML and webinterface... something like Google Groups; I think
> THAT would be a good idea. What about trying to "channel"
> comp.lang.python and a forum?
>
> --
> Alan Franzoni
> contact me at public@[mysurname].eu

Hi everyone,

My small effort to create a place for discussing Python seems to have
sparked a larger discussion than I had anticipated. My intent in
creating Pyfora is not to splinter the community or encroach upon
comp.lang.python users, but to create an alternative location where
users can discuss Python. If this offends or irritates anyone, please
accept my humble apologies.

I understand that forums can be degenerate and uncivil, but my hope is
that with Pyfora, beginners will have a place to freely ask questions
in a genial environment. A large part of my computer upbringing was on
forums, and I wanted to share that experience with new Python users.

Sincerely,
Saketh

Imagine if no one ever created anything new out of fear of
"fragmenting the community". Should we hurl the same accusation at
Guido for fragmenting the programmer community and creating Python,
when perfectly fine languages like Perl, Lisp & Smalltalk already
existed?

Creating new things is a part of the natural evolution of the web
ecosystem. Some of them will succeed, like Python itself did, and
ultimately improve the ecosystem. New places hardly fragment the
community, because at the early stages, they usually don't draw many
resources away from existing communities; by the time they do, they
can be valuable contributors to the larger community in their own
right.

Aneesh

On Nov 7, 2:58*am, Saketh <saketh.bhamidip...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 4, 5:28*pm, Alan Franzoni <doesnotex...@franzoni.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 11/2/09 3:44 PM, Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
>
> > > Being from germany, I can say that we *have* this fragmentation, and
> > > frankly: I don't like it. I prefer my communication via NNTP/ML, and not
> > > with those visually rather noisy and IMHO suboptimal forums. E.g. it
>
> > That's right... forums, although more "accessible" to all the people who
> > can't/doesn't want to use specific email or nntp clients, are quite slow
> > to use.
>
> > But I think Ubuntu forums support threads and are kind of "channeled"
> > between ML and webinterface... something like Google Groups; I think
> > THAT would be a good idea. What about trying to "channel"
> > comp.lang.python and a forum?
>
> > --
> > Alan Franzoni
> > contact me at public@[mysurname].eu
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> My small effort to create a place for discussing Python seems to have
> sparked a larger discussion than I had anticipated. My intent in
> creatingPyforais not to splinter the community or encroach upon
> comp.lang.python users, but to create an alternative location where
> users can discuss Python. If this offends or irritates anyone, please
> accept my humble apologies.
>
> I understand that forums can be degenerate and uncivil, but my hope is
> that withPyfora, beginners will have a place to freely ask questions
> in a genial environment. A large part of my computer upbringing was on
> forums, and I wanted to share that experience with new Python users.
>
> Sincerely,
> Saketh

Saketh wrote:
> On Nov 4, 5:28 pm, Alan Franzoni <doesnotex...@franzoni.invalid>

> My small effort to create a place for discussing Python seems to have
> sparked a larger discussion than I had anticipated. My intent in
> creating Pyfora is not to splinter the community or encroach upon
> comp.lang.python users, but to create an alternative location where
> users can discuss Python. If this offends or irritates anyone, please
> accept my humble apologies.
>
> I understand that forums can be degenerate and uncivil, but my hope is
> that with Pyfora, beginners will have a place to freely ask questions
> in a genial environment. A large part of my computer upbringing was on
> forums, and I wanted to share that experience with new Python users.

I have no problem with efforts to create something new and different. I
am curious whether you were or have become aware of

http://www.python-forum.org/pythonforum/index.php

It seems to already do what you intended to do, so if you want to
continue, you might think of how to differentiate PyFora.

Terry Jan Reedy