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>> I have no idea what reverse url generation is.
> > It's a mean to avoid hard-coding urls in your application code - the url is > fully generated by the 'url mapping' system. > I don't need that, see below. >> I assume that the user >> will call http://example.com/path/to/script.py...llo&var2=world >> >> script.py would live in /home/user/site-name/public_html/path/to/ >> > > Now try to use apache url rewrites to use "nice urls" (like, > "/<section-name>/<sub-section-name>/<article-name>" instead of > "path/to/script-serving-articles.wtf?id=42"). Good luck. > Actually, currently in the example url http://example.com/path/to/script.py...llo&var2=world the script is /home/user/site-name/public_html/path/ (with no filename extension) and the script.py is actually page.html which is an arbitrary, descriptive string and not part of the script filename. See the pages on http://dotancohen.com for examples. >> I would prefer to output everything from <html> to </html> with print >> statements. I don't want some framework wrapping my output in tags, I >> want the tags to be part of the output. > > You're confusing the framework and the templating system. The framework by > itself won't wrap your "output" in anything, nor even forces you to "output" > HTML. This is what I was hoping to hear. I don't remember the details, but I had a hard time outputting the HTML myself in Django. I will play with it again soon if I get the chance. > Also FWIW, it's HTTP, so we don't have "outputs", we have HTTP > responses. > Clearly. I was referring to stdout being send to the browser as the http response. I think I mentioned that, but I apologize for being unclear. >> Yes, why not? > > Let's say I want to reuse your app with a different presentation. Do I have > to fork the whole application and send my HTML coder dig into your > applicative code just to rewrite the HTML parts ? > No, just replace two files. In that manner it is templating. Again, an example from the current PHP code: <?php $variables_for_header="blah"; include "/path/to/header.inc"; // content here include "/path/to/footer.inc"; ?> >> Like I said before, I don't want to have to maintain the functions >> that turn the HTTP environment into Python variables, > > "HTTP environment" ??? > > Oh, you mean HTTP requests etc... Well, the cgi module already provides some > basic support here. > Does it? I will look into that. I assume that basic support means making the cookie, GET and POST variables easily accessible. I google, but cannot find any exapmles of this online. >> or the code that >> manages database connections. Functions that escape data to be sent to >> MySQL (to prevent sql injection) would be nice. > > Any DB-API compliant module already provide this - granted you use it > correctly. > I know. This is will use correctly, I promise! >> Other than that, it's >> all on me. > > Your choice... > Hey! Since when am I not under attack?  -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il |
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Dotan Cohen wrote:
>>> I insist on handling the HTML myself. >> >> I just don't get how embedding HTML in applicative code - a well-known >> antipattern FWIW - relates to "handling the HTML yourself". Can you >> *please* explain how a templating system prevents you from "handling the >> HTML" yourself. >> > >>From the little that I played with Django, it looked like I would (for > the sake of argument I am just using the term output, but the > intention should be clear) output "Hello, world!" and Django would > mangle that into <html><body><p>Hello, world!</p></body></html>. It > did not look like I had any control over the tags at all. > > >>>> And >>>> even if not, what you will do is ... code your own webframework. >>> >>> That is why I am looking for a class that handles the backend stuff, >>> but lets _me_ handle the HTML. >> >> For God's sake : *why on earth do you believe that using a templating >> system will make you loose _any_ control on the HTML code ???* >> > > Because that's what I've seen of them. > > >>>> And at least pylons/TG2 lets you return whatever you want instead, as a >>>> string. Not via "print" though - which is simply only for CGI, and no >>>> other >>>> means (e.g. mod_wsgi) of python-web-programming. >>>> >>> >>> I am trying to follow you here. What is "return whatever you want"? >>> Return HTML to stdout to be sent to the browser? >> >> please leave stdout out of here - it's HTTP, so what we have are HTTP >> requests and HTTP responses - not stdin nor stdout. Using these streams >> as a mean of communication between the web server and the applicative >> code is just plain old low-level GCI stuff. Your application code >> shouldn't have any knowledge of this implementation detail - it should >> receive (a suitable representation of) an HTTP request, and generate (a >> suitable representation of) an HTTP response. > > Can you provide a code example of printing the variable "torvalds" in > the GET request? > http://example.com/page.py?torvalds=tux > Should return this: > <html><body><p>tux</p></body></html> > > And something similar for a POST request? > > I hate to ask for code, but this conversation would be easier that way. > Thanks. I've already given you that for TG: class RootController(BaseController): @expose() def page(self, torwalds=None): return "<html><body><p>%s</p></body></html>" % (torwalds if torwalds else "" Of course nobody would do it that way. Instead, you'd define a template <html xmlns  y='http://genshi.edgewall.org/'><body><p>${torvalds}</p></body></html>And then your code becomes: @expose("your.template.path") def page(self, torwalds=None): return dict(torwalds=torwalds) Separation of code from HTML-code. Which most people agree is a good thing. And no worries about having to make torwalds a string. Now let's say you want torwalds to be not-empty, and a number: @expose("your.template.path") @validate(dict(torwalds=Int(not_empty=True)), error_handler=some_error_handler_controller_action ) def page(self, torwalds=None): return dict(torwalds=torwalds) Diez |
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>> I insist on handling the HTML myself. As for converting the request
>> variables into Python variables, if a class/framework makes that >> easier then I would gladly use it. My question was serious. How can I >> do those things? > > Using a framework? In Pylons/TG2, my code looks like this: > > def some_form_action(self, name, email, password): > > Â* .... > > so HTTP-variables get parsed, validated, converted, and *then* passed to my > actual code. > I know how to call a function, but how do I use the variables? How do I respond (I am avoiding the term output) with the value of the GET variable "torvalds", for example? And similarly for a POST variable? >>> But then do you deal with headers correctly? >> >> Yes, so far as I know. This is actually simpler than the HTML, just be >> careful not to output two newline characters in sequence (thereby >> ending the header). > > Oh my god. If two newlines are all you think that there is to properly > writing HTTP-headers, no wonder *you* wonder what to use a webframework > for. > I was being brief. I don't pretend to know the whole protocol by heart, but I get by that far. >>> Do you respect character >>> encodings? >> >> Yes! UTF-8 from database to scripting language to HTTP request. > > And if the browser sends them in different encoding? Frameworks make you > deals with unicode only. Decoding/Encoding, setting the necessary > That's what I wrote below: >>> Form-encodings? >> >> Yes, UTF-8 the in the other direction. However, as form data can be >> spoofed, I would like a function that checks it. Does Python have such >> a function? What class does? > > Frameworks do check for HTTP-headers that contain the encoding, and thus > convert incoming data to unicode. > That is useful, thanks. >> >> >>> Is your generated HTML valid? >> >> Naturally, even though this is not a Python issue. > > "Naturally" with print-statements? > "Carefully" with print statements. >>> Do you parse >>> content negotiation headers? >>> >> >> No. I hate sites that do that. If the page is available in another >> language, their is a link in the corner. > > Again, you don't seem to really know much about webapps. Content-negotiation > isn't about languages, it's about content-types. Such as serving HTML or > JSON from the same URL. But let me guess, you hate applications that do > that? > I used to serve WML-specific "decks" to known mobile UA's, but I've stopped.. > I don't have the *slightest* doubt about that. In fact, I'm pretty sure you > can make pretty bad webapplications in pretty much everything you touch. > Good luck with that. > I am a mechanical engineering student, not CS. I am doing this for my own use and enjoyment. I don't need luck with that, I don't have any customers. If someone were to come along asking me to code for them, I would send them to you! -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il |
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