Passed 72-290

"Lawrence Garvin [MVP]" <> wrote in message
news:7CB60145-F41E-4675-B733-...
>
> That doesn't seem to make sense. There are several exams that are listed
> as electives for both the MCSA and the MCSE, and they all can be "reused".
> In fact, I believe that the only thing you have to do to "upgrade" an MCSA
> (Win2003) to an MCSE (Win2003) is take the two extra core exams (70-293,
> 70-294), and one of the two design exams (70-297 or 70-29.
>

The "upgrade" statement is true for some electives like 70-228, but not for
others like MCDST and CompTIA.

I used MCDST for my MCSA. After completing 293, 294, and 297, I still was
not awarded MCSE. I had to satisfy the "MCSE Elective" requirement before I
got it.

John R

John R

"Paul Jones" <> wrote in message
news:...

>>That doesn't seem to make sense. There are several exams that are listed
>>as
>>electives for both the MCSA and the MCSE, and they all can be "reused". In
>>fact, I believe that the only thing you have to do to "upgrade" an MCSA
>>(Win2003) to an MCSE (Win2003) is take the two extra core exams (70-293,
>>70-294), and one of the two design exams (70-297 or 70-29.
>
> Makes sense or not. You CANNOT use any CompTIA credential but Security+
> as an elective for an MCSE.

Okay.. so point me to a *Microsoft* published reference at microsoft.com
that explicitly states this as fact.


> The page that is on the Australian site is exactly the same one as used
> to be on the main US site.

Australian sites don't mean squat in the U.S.

> Do you think it is different just for an Australian MCSE?

It could be!

Also, in case you hadn't noticed, there's a *LOT* of information that's
still posted on the "Australian" site that's long since been removed from
the U.S. site, including links for eval copies of Win2003; so, to be honest,
I'm a bit skeptical about anything currently posted on a Microsoft-Australia
site.



--
Lawrence Garvin, M.S., MCITP:EA, MCDBA
Principal/CTO, Onsite Technology Solutions, Houston, Texas
Microsoft MVP - Software Distribution (2005-2009)

My Blog: http://onsitechsolutions.spaces.live.com
Microsoft WSUS Website: http://www.microsoft.com/wsus
My MVP Profile: http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/pro...awrence.Garvin

Lawrence Garvin [MVP]

"John R" <jsr^^^813@zoom^^^internet.net> wrote in message
news:...

> The "upgrade" statement is true for some electives like 70-228, but not
> for others like MCDST and CompTIA.
>
> I used MCDST for my MCSA. After completing 293, 294, and 297, I still was
> not awarded MCSE. I had to satisfy the "MCSE Elective" requirement before
> I got it.

This is not a valid comparison, John. The MCDST is not eligible for use as
an MCSE elective under any circumstances, it can only be used for the MCSA;
and *that* is why you had to still satisfy the MCSE elective.

MCDST Listed:
http://www.microsoft.com/learning/en...mcsa.aspx#tab2
MCDST Not Listed:
http://www.microsoft.com/learning/en...mcse.aspx#tab2



--
Lawrence Garvin, M.S., MCITP:EA, MCDBA
Principal/CTO, Onsite Technology Solutions, Houston, Texas
Microsoft MVP - Software Distribution (2005-2009)

My Blog: http://onsitechsolutions.spaces.live.com
Microsoft WSUS Website: http://www.microsoft.com/wsus
My MVP Profile: http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/pro...awrence.Garvin

Lawrence Garvin [MVP]

On Thu, 8 Oct 2009 22:54:09 -0500, "Lawrence Garvin [MVP]"
<> wrote:

>"Paul Jones" <> wrote in message
>news:.. .

>> Makes sense or not. You CANNOT use any CompTIA credential but Security+
>> as an elective for an MCSE.
>
>Okay.. so point me to a *Microsoft* published reference at microsoft.com
>that explicitly states this as fact.

You are the one giving out bad and completely wrong information so YOU
point the OP to a link that states he CAN use them. Not just one that
states CompTIA exams like you have done.
How is he going to feel if he thinks he has completed his MCSE only to
be knocked back. Think before giving out advice without doing any
research into it!

As already mentioned, MS decided to take down the information that they
had posted. Which was *identical* to the Australian site.
I am sure the Australians will be really please that you hold them in
such high regard!

It is discussed here:
http://www.proprofs.com/forums/index...howtopic=22226
http://www.microsoft.com/communities...r=US&sloc=&p=1
http://www.focusprojects.co.uk/itsm/...cate-family/5/
http://social.microsoft.com/Forums/e...3-26dd21ee9f2e

CompTIA state "Microsoft includes CompTIA Network+ in their Microsoft
Certified Systems Administrator (MCSA) program".
http://www.comptia.org/certification...d/network.aspx
No mention of MCSE. You would think they would shout about that,
wouldn't you (well any intelligent person would).

How you got MVP status is beyond me!


Complaint email sent.

Paul Jones

"Paul Jones" <> wrote in message
news:...

>>> Makes sense or not. You CANNOT use any CompTIA credential but Security+
>>> as an elective for an MCSE.
>>
>>Okay.. so point me to a *Microsoft* published reference at microsoft.com
>>that explicitly states this as fact.
>
> You are the one giving out bad and completely wrong information so YOU
> point the OP to a link that states he CAN use them. Not just one that
> states CompTIA exams like you have done.

Oh... I see... That's what this is evolving into.

Look, Paul. I pointed the O.P. (who has been absent from this conversation
for the past 5 days) to the official source for information published by
Microsoft. If there's more detail required by the O.P. beyond what's on that
website, then I guess he's going to have to pick up the telephone and ask
somebody directly.

I don't have, and never claimed to have, any authoritative information as to
exactly which CompTIA exams are eligible, or are not. I have challenged you,
twice, to offer links to support your statements that only certain exams are
eligible, and more recently, that they cannot be "reused" for the MCSE
(which is contrary to every other exam on the electives list), and the best
you've been able to come up with is a three-year old page which only exists
on the Microsoft-Australia site (which I've already noted has a LOT of
outdated information), and exists nowhere on the Microsoft Corporate site.

And now you attack me for "giving out bad and completely wrong information".

I never claimed anything to be fact; I directed the O.P. to the
authoritative source for information, which sadly is incomplete as concerns
the use of CompTIA+ exams.

I'll also note that you were the person who originally responded to the O.P.
with the smart-aleck and totally useless answer of "Straight ahead". I,
ultimately, answered the O.P.s question by informing him he needed to get
his CompTIA credentials recorded on his transcript in order to get credit
for those exams against his MCSA/MCSE. The O.P. was never interested in a
conversation about *which* exams were, or were not, required. You jumped
into the thread, with the statement about which exams could be used for
which cert -- which was NOT the O.P.s question. And now, having started the
unnecessary argument, you get ugly and personal.


> How is he going to feel if he thinks he has completed his MCSE only to
> be knocked back.

This is not *my* responsiblity, and, in fact, I'm the person making the
point here that one should NOT rely on unsubstantiated or out-of-date
information coming from a Third Party (including former classroom
instructors). I DO NOT KNOW what the specific requirements are, but I think
it's highly unusual that the exams cannot be "reused", or that there are ANY
MCSA electives that cannot be used as an MCSE elective.


> Think before giving out advice without doing any research into it!

I'm not giving advice; I'm providing facts based on published information
from authoritative sources.

The only information I've provided was to instruct the O.P. that he needed
to get his exams recorded on his transcript.

Beyond that, in this thread, it is you who are providing
advice/information -- and I'm merely challenging you to provide an
authoritative source for your information -- which you have not yet been
able to do.


But if you want advice! Here's mine:

Frankly, I'd recommend *against* using CompTIA exams as electives for the
MCSA/MCSE anyway! Consider the scenario where a candidate has taken all
required exams for the MCSA/MCSE except the elective. Why, pray tell (based
on your information) would a person then want to take TWO more exams to get
the MCSA and yet another THIRD exam to get the MCSE, when both
certifications (the MCSA being a de facto earned cert of all MCSEs
otherwise) can be achived with *ONE* Microsoft exam.

Furthermore, what's Not Good about this scenario, is that, strictly
speaking, based on the information being provided here (which I've already
stated seems illogical), it's possible for a person to earn an MCSE (using
the CompTIA Security+ exam) and NOT be an MCSA because they haven't met the
elective requirement of that certification -- and *that* is messed up!

Now, if you want to suggest that the MCSE requires the A+ =and= Security+
=and= one of the Network+/Server+, then I'll be a perfectly happy camper.


> As already mentioned, MS decided to take down the information that they
> had posted.

That ought to be the *FIRST* clue!!!


> I am sure the Australians will be really please that you hold them in
> such high regard!

Maybe if the Australians would update their site, I would.


> It is discussed here:
> http://www.proprofs.com/forums/index...howtopic=22226
> http://www.microsoft.com/communities...r=US&sloc=&p=1
> http://www.focusprojects.co.uk/itsm/...cate-family/5/
> http://social.microsoft.com/Forums/e...3-26dd21ee9f2e

None of those are Microsoft authoritative references, and neither of the
forum threads posted have an answer from a Microsoft resource. They all rely
on the CompTIA website's interpretation -- which I think is flawed because
it appears to PRESUME that an MCSE candidate has already completed the MCSA
*and* used the CompTIA A+ and N+/S+ as the elective requirements.


> CompTIA state "Microsoft includes CompTIA Network+ in their Microsoft
> Certified Systems Administrator (MCSA) program".
> http://www.comptia.org/certification...d/network.aspx
> No mention of MCSE.

It's a product website for the Network+ exam, space is limited. I'm not
surprised at all.


> How you got MVP status is beyond me!

Insults are entirely inappropriate and unnecessary.

>
> Complaint email sent.

<sigh>


--
Lawrence Garvin, M.S., MCITP:EA, MCDBA
Principal/CTO, Onsite Technology Solutions, Houston, Texas
Microsoft MVP - Software Distribution (2005-2009)

My Blog: http://onsitechsolutions.spaces.live.com
Microsoft WSUS Website: http://www.microsoft.com/wsus
My MVP Profile: http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/pro...awrence.Garvin

Lawrence Garvin [MVP]

On Fri, 9 Oct 2009 09:25:14 -0500, "Lawrence Garvin [MVP]"
<> wrote:

>Oh... I see... That's what this is evolving into.

<major snippage>
I have no time to read all that!

>And now you attack me for "giving out bad and completely wrong information".

There has been no attack. Facts have been presented to you and you
dispute them and provide no source of information to back up your claim.

>I never claimed anything to be fact; I directed the O.P. to the
>authoritative source for information, which sadly is incomplete as concerns
>the use of CompTIA+ exams.

No you gave the user bad information. Quote:
"To use your CompTIA certs as elective credit for the MCSA/MCSE, you
need to ensure that they're recorded on your MCP transcript:"

Note the word 'your'! So you were advising the OP he could use his
CompTIA A+ and N+ certs towards and MCSE.

This was further shown when I pointed out to you that he could not use
them for the MCSE when you replied:
"Hmm.. then somebody probably needs to tell Microsoft Learning to remove
the entry from the MSCE requirements page:"

I do not see any entry on the page using the link *You* provided that
states it could be used for an MCSE.

So you provide bad information and a bad link to back it up.
Then demand I do your research for you to prove to you what I and
probably the rest of the world know is correct.
Here's me thinking an MVP is supposed to be helpful.

Then you slate the Austrian Microsoft site too. So if "Australian sites
don't mean squat in the U.S" and you do not accept the information
provided is genuine and applies to the U.S, does that mean you still
believe you are right?

Paul Jones

"Lawrence Garvin [MVP]" <> wrote in message
news:83620F47-E0E4-4AAD-BC4A-...
> "John R" <jsr^^^813@zoom^^^internet.net> wrote in message
> news:...
>
>> The "upgrade" statement is true for some electives like 70-228, but not
>> for others like MCDST and CompTIA.
>>
>> I used MCDST for my MCSA. After completing 293, 294, and 297, I still
>> was not awarded MCSE. I had to satisfy the "MCSE Elective" requirement
>> before I got it.
>
> This is not a valid comparison, John. The MCDST is not eligible for use as
> an MCSE elective under any circumstances, it can only be used for the
> MCSA; and *that* is why you had to still satisfy the MCSE elective.
>

I understand that.

I think my point was that CompTIA A+, N+ is the same thing, it is only
allowed to apply to MCSA.
CompTIA is listed on the MCSE page because Security+ is accepted for that.

One would reasonable assume that the requirement pages that you quote would
be more specific.

I'm just being nit-picky witch-ya

John R

John R

On Fri, 9 Oct 2009 14:03:55 -0400, "John R"
<jsr^^^813@zoom^^^internet.net> wrote:

>I think my point was that CompTIA A+, N+ is the same thing, it is only
>allowed to apply to MCSA.
>CompTIA is listed on the MCSE page because Security+ is accepted for that.
>
>One would reasonable assume that the requirement pages that you quote would
>be more specific.

Indeed. It was previously shown but got changed when the new 2008 certs
came in.

Paul Jones

"Lawrence Garvin [MVP]" <> wrote in message
news51C6565-D25C-43E9-A8BB-...
>
> Okay.. so point me to a *Microsoft* published reference at microsoft.com
> that explicitly states this as fact.
>

Just to throw a little more fuel around, I believe the page he cited was...
http://www.microsoft.com/australia/l.../partners.mspx

What is the domain name on that link?

John R

John R

"Paul Jones" <> wrote in message
news:...

>>I never claimed anything to be fact; I directed the O.P. to the
>>authoritative source for information, which sadly is incomplete as
>>concerns
>>the use of CompTIA+ exams.
>
> No you gave the user bad information. Quote:
> "To use your CompTIA certs as elective credit for the MCSA/MCSE, you
> need to ensure that they're recorded on your MCP transcript:"
>
> Note the word 'your'! So you were advising the OP he could use his
> CompTIA A+ and N+ certs towards and MCSE.

<sigh>.. speaking of no time to deal with penny-ante pedantic arguments . .
..

I'm outta here!



--
Lawrence Garvin, M.S., MCITP:EA, MCDBA
Principal/CTO, Onsite Technology Solutions, Houston, Texas
Microsoft MVP - Software Distribution (2005-2009)

My Blog: http://onsitechsolutions.spaces.live.com
Microsoft WSUS Website: http://www.microsoft.com/wsus
My MVP Profile: http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/pro...awrence.Garvin

Lawrence Garvin [MVP]