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Linux 2009: "bloated, huge, and scary"

 
 
impossible
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Posts: n/a
 
      09-25-2009
Spinning bloat into "features" isn't winning RedHat any friends in the
"community":

http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=24832

"Red Hat CEO Jim Whitehurst disagreed with Linus Torvalds' contention that
Linux has become bloated....

"So who's right here? Whitehurst has a point. Won't every operating system
have virtualization capabilities layered in? Isn't it the normal course of
business to add features?

"However, Torvalds may be onto something too. He may be early with his bloat
warning, but at some point Linux will have more features than people
actually want. Bloated operating systems are like a lot of other things:
It's
hard to find the tipping point, but you know bloat when you see it."

And results are in now from a straw poll of blog readers:

"Linus Torvalds is right. It's bloated, huge, and scary"

 
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thingy
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      09-26-2009
On Sep 25, 11:39*pm, "impossible" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> Spinning bloat into "features" isn't winning RedHat any friends in the
> "community":
>
> http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=24832
>
> "Red Hat CEO Jim Whitehurst disagreed with Linus Torvalds' contention that
> Linux has become bloated....
>
> "So who's right here? Whitehurst has a point. Won't every operating system
> have virtualization capabilities layered in? Isn't it the normal course of
> business to add features?
>
> "However, Torvalds may be onto something too. He may be early with his bloat
> warning, but at some point Linux will have more features than people
> actually want. Bloated operating systems are like a lot of other things:
> It's
> hard to find the tipping point, but you know bloat when you see it."
>
> And results are in now from a straw poll of blog readers:
>
> "Linus Torvalds is right. It's bloated, huge, and scary"


Unlike windows you can choose what you install right from a base
OS...it doesnt install everything including the bloatware the OEM's
add in order to make yet more money off you...stupid things from HP
that keeps trying to sell you extra hardware warrantee you dont
want...It doesnt even allow you to say no, its either not right now,
or buy.....

If they had any morals the 3rd choice would be "no never"...and thats
the difference....

but something I expect you wouldnt understand....

regards

thing












 
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Sailor Sam
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      09-26-2009
victor wrote:
> thingy wrote:
>> On Sep 25, 11:39 pm, "impossible" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>> Spinning bloat into "features" isn't winning RedHat any friends in the
>>> "community":
>>>
>>> http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=24832
>>>
>>> "Red Hat CEO Jim Whitehurst disagreed with Linus Torvalds' contention
>>> that
>>> Linux has become bloated....
>>>
>>> "So who's right here? Whitehurst has a point. Won't every operating
>>> system
>>> have virtualization capabilities layered in? Isn't it the normal
>>> course of
>>> business to add features?
>>>
>>> "However, Torvalds may be onto something too. He may be early with
>>> his bloat
>>> warning, but at some point Linux will have more features than people
>>> actually want. Bloated operating systems are like a lot of other things:
>>> It's
>>> hard to find the tipping point, but you know bloat when you see it."
>>>
>>> And results are in now from a straw poll of blog readers:
>>>
>>> "Linus Torvalds is right. It's bloated, huge, and scary"

>>
>> Unlike windows you can choose what you install right from a base
>> OS...it doesnt install everything including the bloatware the OEM's
>> add in order to make yet more money off you...stupid things from HP
>> that keeps trying to sell you extra hardware warrantee you dont
>> want...It doesnt even allow you to say no, its either not right now,
>> or buy.....
>>
>> If they had any morals the 3rd choice would be "no never"...and thats
>> the difference....
>>
>> but something I expect you wouldnt understand....
>>
>> regards
>>
>> thing
>>
>>
>>

>
> LOL "A straw poll of blog readers"
>
> What a DICK !!


I think it's healthy to be able to discuss what does, and does not, go
into the kernel of an OS. Also, being OSS, there is the oppourtunity to
fork the kernel to suit your needs, as a user.

With a proprietary kernel, the big players have their say about what
they want, the sales reps say what they think will sell, and the
discussion ends there.
 
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Nik Coughlin
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      09-26-2009
"Sailor Sam" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:h9jr1o$ef4$(E-Mail Removed)-september.org...
> I think it's healthy to be able to discuss what does, and does not, go
> into the kernel of an OS. Also, being OSS, there is the oppourtunity to
> fork the kernel to suit your needs, as a user.


Which is why OSS is so wonderful of course Though you could equally say
the same thing about any type of software, provided that you are both the
developer *and* the user, there's just a lot more work involved

> With a proprietary kernel, the big players have their say about what they
> want, the sales reps say what they think will sell, and the discussion
> ends there.


That's oversimplistic. The needs of the targeted end users (who are after
all collectively the biggest player of them all) and the engineers' past
experience, level of ability, and personal and professional pride play a
huge role as well.

 
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Sailor Sam
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      09-26-2009
Nik Coughlin wrote:
> "Sailor Sam" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:h9jr1o$ef4$(E-Mail Removed)-september.org...
>> I think it's healthy to be able to discuss what does, and does not, go
>> into the kernel of an OS. Also, being OSS, there is the oppourtunity
>> to fork the kernel to suit your needs, as a user.

>
> Which is why OSS is so wonderful of course Though you could equally
> say the same thing about any type of software, provided that you are
> both the developer *and* the user, there's just a lot more work involved
>


I was thinking as I wrote the post that, almost everything here applies
to both, the bigger you are, the deeper your pockets, the more influence
you can exert on what goes in, and what doesn't.

However, the difference is, that, even a mildly advanced user, with no
coding experience, whatsoever, can recompile the OSS kernel to include,
or not include as the case may be, anything and everything they feel
appropriate (I know this from first hand experience).

Note, this can (and often does) end in tears, but with proper
management, the user is going to lose, at most, one working day of
effort, but no data loss (first hand experience again .

I cannot, regardless of my skillset, recompile a proprietary kernel.

And, I would humbly submit, my skillset is now considered above average,
to advanced.

>> With a proprietary kernel, the big players have their say about what
>> they want, the sales reps say what they think will sell, and the
>> discussion ends there.

>
> That's oversimplistic. The needs of the targeted end users (who are
> after all collectively the biggest player of them all) and the
> engineers' past experience, level of ability, and personal and
> professional pride play a huge role as well.


 
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impossible
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Posts: n/a
 
      09-26-2009

"victor" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:h9jqd5$9al$(E-Mail Removed)-september.org...
> thingy wrote:
>> On Sep 25, 11:39 pm, "impossible" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>> Spinning bloat into "features" isn't winning RedHat any friends in the
>>> "community":
>>>
>>> http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=24832
>>>
>>> "Red Hat CEO Jim Whitehurst disagreed with Linus Torvalds' contention
>>> that
>>> Linux has become bloated....
>>>
>>> "So who's right here? Whitehurst has a point. Won't every operating
>>> system
>>> have virtualization capabilities layered in? Isn't it the normal course
>>> of
>>> business to add features?
>>>
>>> "However, Torvalds may be onto something too. He may be early with his
>>> bloat
>>> warning, but at some point Linux will have more features than people
>>> actually want. Bloated operating systems are like a lot of other things:
>>> It's
>>> hard to find the tipping point, but you know bloat when you see it."
>>>
>>> And results are in now from a straw poll of blog readers:
>>>
>>> "Linus Torvalds is right. It's bloated, huge, and scary"

>>
>> Unlike windows you can choose what you install right from a base
>> OS...it doesnt install everything including the bloatware the OEM's
>> add in order to make yet more money off you...stupid things from HP
>> that keeps trying to sell you extra hardware warrantee you dont
>> want...It doesnt even allow you to say no, its either not right now,
>> or buy.....
>>
>> If they had any morals the 3rd choice would be "no never"...and thats
>> the difference....
>>
>> but something I expect you wouldnt understand....
>>
>> regards
>>
>> thing
>>
>>
>>

>
> LOL "A straw poll of blog readers"
>
> What a DICK !!


Yes, DEixck, of course. The votes of six nz.comp fanboys mean so-o-o-o- much
more.

 
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Peter
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Posts: n/a
 
      09-26-2009
Sailor Sam wrote:
> However, the difference is, that, even a mildly advanced user, with no
> coding experience, whatsoever, can recompile the OSS kernel to include,
> or not include as the case may be, anything and everything they feel
> appropriate (I know this from first hand experience).


Changes to a proprietary kernel will only happen with the agreement and
approval of that software company.
But with an open source kernel, you (as a person or corporation) might have
wildly different ideas of what changes are required, or what bug is causing
you problems. Doesn't matter, you can alter the kernel as you wish.

I was told a story by a guy in a web server company, where they were sure
that bugs / features in the proprietary kernel they were using was causing
serious problems (memory leaks and stuff). They couldn't convince the
company who sold them the OS, so couldn't get it fixed. Very expensive and
very frustrating. Changing to an OSS system was a big job, but at the end,
gave them dramatically increased freedom and flexibility, and enabled them
control over their own business.


Peter


 
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