Re: Spam on comp.lang.vhdl

On 19 Sep, 13:28, David Bishop <dbis...@vhdl.org> wrote:
> On one of the other sigs that I surf, when SPAM started to be a problem,
> we started putting a string in the subject line that we could filter on.
> How about putting [VHDL] as the first 6 characters of the subject line
> so that we can filter out all the junk?
>
> David Bishop dbis...@vhdl.orghttp://www.vhdl.org/fphdl

It's an option but you'd have to remind people of that regularly and
would miss at least some newbie posts.

In the last few weeks I've been reporting the spams to Google. I hope
they will take the reports on board and delete both the spams and,
more importantly, the spammer's accounts. (Many appear to be Google
accounts.)

Time will tell. In some groups - such as alt.os.development - spam is
taken seriously. Whoever the reports reach at Google for that group
does a good job in deleting spams and, apparently, deleting the
sending accounts too. Not sure about comp.lang.vhdl. I get no feedback
on the reports.

If anyone else has the option to report spams to their provider it may
be worth trying it for a couple of months to see if we can drive the
spammers away. The only thing likely to stop them is loss of the many
accounts they send from.

James

James Harris

James Harris wrote:
> On 19 Sep, 13:28, David Bishop <dbis...@vhdl.org> wrote:
>> On one of the other sigs that I surf, when SPAM started to be a problem,
>> we started putting a string in the subject line that we could filter on.
>> How about putting [VHDL] as the first 6 characters of the subject line
>> so that we can filter out all the junk?
>>
>> David Bishop dbis...@vhdl.orghttp://www.vhdl.org/fphdl
>
> It's an option but you'd have to remind people of that regularly and
> would miss at least some newbie posts.
>
> In the last few weeks I've been reporting the spams to Google. I hope
> they will take the reports on board and delete both the spams and,
> more importantly, the spammer's accounts. (Many appear to be Google
> accounts.)
>
> Time will tell. In some groups - such as alt.os.development - spam is
> taken seriously. Whoever the reports reach at Google for that group
> does a good job in deleting spams and, apparently, deleting the
> sending accounts too. Not sure about comp.lang.vhdl. I get no feedback
> on the reports.
>
> If anyone else has the option to report spams to their provider it may
> be worth trying it for a couple of months to see if we can drive the
> spammers away. The only thing likely to stop them is loss of the many
> accounts they send from.
>
> James

I've switched from GigaNews to News.Individual recently, and have seen
approximately zero spam since (and it's cheaper).

Chris Abele

Chris Abele

"Chris Abele" <> wrote in message
news:...
> James Harris wrote:
>> On 19 Sep, 13:28, David Bishop <dbis...@vhdl.org> wrote:
>>> On one of the other sigs that I surf, when SPAM started to be a problem,
>>> we started putting a string in the subject line that we could filter on.
>>> How about putting [VHDL] as the first 6 characters of the subject line
>>> so that we can filter out all the junk?
>>>
>>> David Bishop dbis...@vhdl.orghttp://www.vhdl.org/fphdl
>>
>> It's an option but you'd have to remind people of that regularly and
>> would miss at least some newbie posts.
>>
>> In the last few weeks I've been reporting the spams to Google. I hope
>> they will take the reports on board and delete both the spams and,
>> more importantly, the spammer's accounts. (Many appear to be Google
>> accounts.)
>>
>> Time will tell. In some groups - such as alt.os.development - spam is
>> taken seriously. Whoever the reports reach at Google for that group
>> does a good job in deleting spams and, apparently, deleting the
>> sending accounts too. Not sure about comp.lang.vhdl. I get no feedback
>> on the reports.
>>
>> If anyone else has the option to report spams to their provider it may
>> be worth trying it for a couple of months to see if we can drive the
>> spammers away. The only thing likely to stop them is loss of the many
>> accounts they send from.
>>
>> James
>
> I've switched from GigaNews to News.Individual recently, and have seen
> approximately zero spam since (and it's cheaper).
>
> Chris Abele

I use Motzarella and I find they delete spam such that most groups I use
tend to be spam free, it's also even cheaper than News.Individual. Mind,
there are always the usual culprits here who use this group as an
advertising medium.

Fredxx

Fredxx wrote:
>
> I use Motzarella and I find they delete spam such that most groups I use
> tend to be spam free, it's also even cheaper than News.Individual. Mind,
> there are always the usual culprits here who use this group as an
> advertising medium.
>
>
Do you work for Motzarella?

Symon

"Symon" <> wrote in message
news:h9aif2$hj$...
> Fredxx wrote:
>>
>> I use Motzarella and I find they delete spam such that most groups I use
>> tend to be spam free, it's also even cheaper than News.Individual. Mind,
>> there are always the usual culprits here who use this group as an
>> advertising medium.
>>
>>
> Do you work for Motzarella?

No, I just use their free news server. It's not a question I've been asked
before!

Fredxx

Fredxx wrote:
> "Symon" <> wrote in message
> news:h9aif2$hj$...
>> Fredxx wrote:
>>> I use Motzarella and I find they delete spam such that most groups I use
>>> tend to be spam free, it's also even cheaper than News.Individual. Mind,
>>> there are always the usual culprits here who use this group as an
>>> advertising medium.
>>>
>>>
>> Do you work for Motzarella?
>
> No, I just use their free news server. It's not a question I've been asked
> before!
>
>
Just checking you're not a "usual culprit"!

Symon

On 21 Sep, 09:43, James Harris <james.harri...@googlemail.com> wrote:
....
> In the last few weeks I've been reporting the spams to Google. I hope
> they will take the reports on board and delete both the spams and,
> more importantly, the spammer's accounts. (Many appear to be Google
> accounts.)

Well, if anyone has a newsfeed that shows spam take a look now. From
the Google front end (which doesn't generally filter out spam) all of
September is showing clear of spam.

It seems that Google have responded to reports and deleted the spam
posts.

If they are also deleting the spammers' accounts for infringement of
acceptable use policy we will hopefully begin to see a reduction in
spams to this group.

For anyone else who has been reporting spams let's keep the reports
going. It seems to be taking effect.

James

James Harris

On Wed, 23 Sep 2009 00:49:14 -0700 (PDT), James Harris
<> wrote:

>On 21 Sep, 09:43, James Harris <james.harri...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>...
>> In the last few weeks I've been reporting the spams to Google. I hope
>> they will take the reports on board and delete both the spams and,
>> more importantly, the spammer's accounts. (Many appear to be Google
>> accounts.)
>
>Well, if anyone has a newsfeed that shows spam take a look now. From
>the Google front end (which doesn't generally filter out spam) all of
>September is showing clear of spam.

Sadly, whatever salutary effect there may be on the mothership,
googlegroups posters are still contributing spam to the rest of usenet.

Clipped from my server's kill log; hundreds more like these, of course.
Note that it's the Message-ID field that identifies the source server
(the [stuff]@[morestuff]googlegroups.com part), not the user-generated
From field.

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>It seems that Google have responded to reports and deleted the spam
>posts.

Sadly, only after the fact.

>If they are also deleting the spammers' accounts for infringement of
>acceptable use policy we will hopefully begin to see a reduction in
>spams to this group.

10 hold(breath)
20 goto 10

Error at line 10: User asphyxiated. Abort, retry, fail?

How easy is it to create a new account and start spamming again?

>For anyone else who has been reporting spams let's keep the reports
>going. It seems to be taking effect.

There are heuristics that Google could use to stop the origination of
spam. After all, these are supposed to be the smartest cookies, eh?
Surely they are aware of what has been going on.

--
Rich Webb Norfolk, VA

Rich Webb

On 23 Sep, 14:00, Rich Webb <bbew...@mapson.nozirev.ten> wrote:
....
> Note that it's the Message-ID field that identifies the source server
> (the [stuff]@[morestuff]googlegroups.com part), not the user-generated
> From field.

If I check two messages I have posted from Google I get different
message ids.

<ea70f348-9815-43c4-9749->
<8cea0c51-a28d-45ba-8bd1->

Are you saying these indicate the server - i.e. Google? That's of
limited value. They don't indicate the sending account which would be
useful (to see if spams from that account cease). Instead when I
checked headers I assumed the Path was valid - at least in showing how
a spam message reached Google - and shows messages that Google
originate.

To identify the Google user account the Injection-Info header seems
best. For the two posts mentioned above they show

Injection-Info: g23g2000vbr.googlegroups.com; posting-
host=87.115.193.127;
posting-account=Ss8wVAkAAADjaLf6nhKZFuysJxWaHI9Z
Injection-Info: m11g2000vbl.googlegroups.com; posting-
host=87.115.193.127;
posting-account=Ss8wVAkAAADjaLf6nhKZFuysJxWaHI9Z

Note that the posting-account is the same.

....

> How easy is it to create a new account and start spamming again?

I suspect - but could be wrong - that the spammers have set up batches
of accounts and that as each one gets blocked or deleted they go on to
another.

That said, it seems that new Google Groups accounts for a few months
present a captcha challenge (a hard-to-read word that must be typed)
for each new post. It is thus at least inconvenient for them to use
new accounts.

I hope that as they get accounts deleted for non-compliance they will
be discouraged from continuing. I suspect the companies pay minions to
send the spams so as long as it's worth their while they will continue
but it can be made harder for them.

The worst thing of all is to just let it continue.

> >For anyone else who has been reporting spams let's keep the reports
> >going. It seems to be taking effect.
>
> There are heuristics that Google could use to stop the origination of
> spam. After all, these are supposed to be the smartest cookies, eh?
> Surely they are aware of what has been going on.

IMHO Google's reputation is far below what it was and is continuing to
fall. You are right that they could do much more than they are doing
to prevent spams. Many of them seem to come from their accounts, after
all.

James

James Harris

On Thu, 24 Sep 2009 02:03:22 -0700 (PDT), James Harris
<> wrote:

>On 23 Sep, 14:00, Rich Webb <bbew...@mapson.nozirev.ten> wrote:
>...
>> Note that it's the Message-ID field that identifies the source server
>> (the [stuff]@[morestuff]googlegroups.com part), not the user-generated
>> From field.
>
>If I check two messages I have posted from Google I get different
>message ids.
>
><ea70f348-9815-43c4-9749->
><8cea0c51-a28d-45ba-8bd1->
>
>Are you saying these indicate the server - i.e. Google? That's of
>limited value. They don't indicate the sending account which would be
>useful (to see if spams from that account cease). Instead when I
>checked headers I assumed the Path was valid - at least in showing how
>a spam message reached Google - and shows messages that Google
>originate.

Yes, that's correct. I was just pointing out that, as regards your
comment from up-thread that although (paraphrasing) September was spam
free from the Google front end, lots of spam is still originating with
GoogleGroups.

>To identify the Google user account the Injection-Info header seems
>best. For the two posts mentioned above they show
>
>Injection-Info: g23g2000vbr.googlegroups.com; posting-
>host=87.115.193.127;
> posting-account=Ss8wVAkAAADjaLf6nhKZFuysJxWaHI9Z
>Injection-Info: m11g2000vbl.googlegroups.com; posting-
>host=87.115.193.127;
> posting-account=Ss8wVAkAAADjaLf6nhKZFuysJxWaHI9Z
>
>Note that the posting-account is the same.

Oh, I do note that. The posting-account info is quite useful and I've
been using it in my upstream filter (Hamster) for a while. Not
necessarily for the typical spammer (there are other filters which can
be more effective) but to send known trolls & sockpuppets to /dev/null.

>...
>
>> How easy is it to create a new account and start spamming again?
>
>I suspect - but could be wrong - that the spammers have set up batches
>of accounts and that as each one gets blocked or deleted they go on to
>another.
>
>That said, it seems that new Google Groups accounts for a few months
>present a captcha challenge (a hard-to-read word that must be typed)
>for each new post. It is thus at least inconvenient for them to use
>new accounts.

If that's the case then, I'm just speculating here, I wonder if there is
a market for "mature" GoogleGroup accounts. Something like a cliched
"sweat shop" operation where accounts are grown to maturity, bundled,
and then sold. Could be profitable if the labor cost was low enough and
there was a market for the accounts.

>I hope that as they get accounts deleted for non-compliance they will
>be discouraged from continuing. I suspect the companies pay minions to
>send the spams so as long as it's worth their while they will continue
>but it can be made harder for them.
>
>The worst thing of all is to just let it continue.
>
>> >For anyone else who has been reporting spams let's keep the reports
>> >going. It seems to be taking effect.
>>
>> There are heuristics that Google could use to stop the origination of
>> spam. After all, these are supposed to be the smartest cookies, eh?
>> Surely they are aware of what has been going on.
>
>IMHO Google's reputation is far below what it was and is continuing to
>fall. You are right that they could do much more than they are doing
>to prevent spams. Many of them seem to come from their accounts, after
>all.

What's probably not apparent "inside" GoogleGroups is the fraction of
usenet users who simply use the Message-ID field to delete or ignore
*all* GG posts. Message-ID is present in the overview data and so can be
used by pretty much any client. GG posts would then show up inside
Google but just not exist to a large fraction of the usenet community.
Indeed, before I got Hamster setup and running, I did the same.

--
Rich Webb Norfolk, VA

Rich Webb