«

Charlie wrote:
> On 6 Sep, 21:06, Travis Newbury <travisnewb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sep 6, 12:28 pm, Charlie <charliecle...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I've heard that conditional formatting has no place in purist HTML,
>>> but I'm still keen to see if I can do the following.
>>> I'd like a piece of text to be sized at 32 point at a screen
>>> resolution of 1024x768, and 42 point at 1280x1024. Can this be done?
>> What are you actually trying to do?
>
> I'm looking at a website that has a frameset of 3 frames, a banner at
> the top, a main content section and a navigation frame at the bottom.
> The banner has just the company logo in it, or on occasions it has
> contained just the name of the company in text format. This displays
> fine at the higher resolutions, but if you view the site at 1024x728,
> half of the logo/text is obscured at its bottom edge. If I change it
> to something smaller to accommodate the lower resolutions, it looks
> feeble and silly at the higher ones. Hence the interest in doing
> something conditional on resolution.

Since the *pixel* height of the frame is the same in each case, why are
you trying to size the text that, evidently, almost fills it vertically
in points rather than in pixels? (Note that both frames and fixed-size
fonts are both really disadvantageous in web design.)

On 7 Sep., 14:20, "Jan C. Faerber" <faerber....@gmail.com> wrote:

> Yes, I also wonder if it is possible to get the screen size (e.g.
> 22").

I remember now this old discussion:
Shame on me that I still did not fused my blood and flesh with all
answers I got here.

http://groups.google.at/group/alt.ht...B0df9be5e60c91

In article <>,
Sherm Pendley <> wrote:

> dorayme <> writes:
>
> > In article <>,
> > Sherm Pendley <> wrote:
> >
> >> Now you've discovered why it's a bad idea to hard-code the height of
> >> the top banner frame - any particular size you choose will be a bad
> >> choice for some users.
> >>
> >> So, stop doing that. Just let the top frame adjust itself to whatever
> >> size best fits its contents.
> >
> > Easier said than done with frames.
>
> So, he should stop doing frames too.
>

Indeed, as I said: "Perhaps avoid the problem altogether by having the
banner a pic with a fixed height that informs how to set the top frame.
Otherwise, just live with generous space. Or don't use frames!"

--
dorayme

On 7 sep, 02:23, Charlie <charliecle...@googlemail.com> wrote:

> here to ask the question and learn something.

I believe the best policy is to not define any font-size for any
textual elements. That way

- the text will be resizable at will by the users/visitors in any/all
browsers, if they need to resize the text size (low vision)
- the accessibility feature of browsers regarding font-size will be
already, by default, established, honored.
E.g.: Tools/Internet Options.../Accessibility/Ignore font-size on
webpages in Internet Explorer 7 and Internet Explorer 8 will be
already working perfectly for your IE 7 and IE 8 users. What more can
you ask?
- the webpage will avoid each and all of the font-size unit problems
or known bugs (px, em, ex) in browsers. What more could you ask for?
- browser default font-size values for elements like h1, h2, ... p,
div are now pretty much the same across browser manufacturers (at
least in their recent releases: IE 8, Firefox 3.x, Opera 9+). So, why
would you (or anyone) need to modify these values?

More reading/learning:

"
Browsers allow the user to set a default font size which will be
applied to any font that is not given an explicit size by the
displayed page.(...)
If you do not specify any font size at all (as on the pages you are
reading), text will appear in the default size that was selected by
the user. (...)
"
Truth & Consequences in web design: Font size by Chris Beal
http://pages.prodigy.net/chris_beall/TC/Font size.html

Let Users Control Font Size
http://www.useit.com/alertbox/20020819.html

Browser Defaults Are Not Too Big
http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/auth/bigdefaults.html

"
How do site developers know what size my default is?
They don't. They can't.
"
Web Browser Default Text Size
http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/auth/defaultsize.html

The 100% Easy-2-Read Standard
http://informationarchitects.jp/100e2r/

regards, Gérard
--
Internet Explorer 8 bugs: 56 bugs so far
http://www.gtalbot.org/BrowserBugsSection/MSIE8Bugs/
Internet Explorer 7 bugs: 182 bugs so far
http://www.gtalbot.org/BrowserBugsSection/MSIE7Bugs/

On 10 Sep, 01:01, GTalbot <newsgr...@gtalbot.org> wrote:
> On 7 sep, 02:23, Charlie <charliecle...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> > here to ask the question and learn something.
>
> I believe the best policy is to not define any font-size for any
> textual elements. That way
>
> - the text will be resizable at will by the users/visitors in any/all
> browsers, if they need to resize the text size (low vision)
> - the accessibility feature of browsers regarding font-size will be
> already, by default, established, honored.
> E.g.: Tools/Internet Options.../Accessibility/Ignore font-size on
> webpages in Internet Explorer 7 and Internet Explorer 8 will be
> already working perfectly for your IE 7 and IE 8 users. What more can
> you ask?
> - the webpage will avoid each and all of the font-size unit problems
> or known bugs (px, em, ex) in browsers. What more could you ask for?
> - browser default font-size values for elements like h1, h2, ... p,
> div are now pretty much the same across browser manufacturers (at
> least in their recent releases: IE 8, Firefox 3.x, Opera 9+). So, why
> would you (or anyone) need to modify these values?
>
> More reading/learning:
>
> "
> Browsers allow the user to set a default font size which will be
> applied to any font that is not given an explicit size by the
> displayed page.(...)
> If you do not specify any font size at all (as on the pages you are
> reading), text will appear in the default size that was selected by
> the user. (...)
> "
> Truth & Consequences in web design: Font size by Chris Bealhttp://pages.prodigy.net/chris_beall/TC/Fontsize.html
>
> Let Users Control Font Sizehttp://www.useit.com/alertbox/20020819.html
>
> Browser Defaults Are Not Too Bighttp://mrmazda.no-ip.com/auth/bigdefaults..html
>
> "
> How do site developers know what size my default is?
> They don't. They can't.
> "
> Web Browser Default Text Sizehttp://mrmazda.no-ip.com/auth/defaultsize.html
>
> The 100% Easy-2-Read Standardhttp://informationarchitects.jp/100e2r/
>
> regards, Gérard
> --
> Internet Explorer 8 bugs: 56 bugs so farhttp://www.gtalbot.org/BrowserBugsSection/MSIE8Bugs/
> Internet Explorer 7 bugs: 182 bugs so farhttp://www.gtalbot.org/BrowserBugsSection/MSIE7Bugs/

OK, many thanks to you all for your input. I will go away and apply
the "best practice" recommended here.

Charlie

On Sep 10, 6:44*am, Charlie <charliecle...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> OK, many thanks to you all for your input. I will go away and apply
> the "best practice" recommended here.


Please provide a URL to your site so we can make sure that you are
using best practices. We don't take kindly to people that deceive us
and tell us they will follow our advice then turn around and ignore it!

On Sep 8, 12:52*pm, Harlan Messinger
<hmessinger.removet...@comcast.net> wrote:
> (Note that both frames and fixed-size
> fonts are both really disadvantageous in web design.)

As browsers advance this (font size) is becoming less important.
Unlike older browser version that only increased the size of the text
leaving the layout alone now expand everything on the page including
the layout. So the old "large font screws up my layout" is really no
longer as important as it use to be.

As they continue to advance (the browsers) they will overcome many of
the accessibility issues we find today.

Please note, I am not disagreeing with your statement, only pointing
out that it is becoming less important than it use to as browser
technology progresses.

In article
<b5863318-a927-445a-b7f2->,
Travis Newbury <> wrote:

> On Sep 8, 12:52*pm, Harlan Messinger
> <hmessinger.removet...@comcast.net> wrote:
> > (Note that both frames and fixed-size
> > fonts are both really disadvantageous in web design.)
>
> As browsers advance this (font size) is becoming less important.
> Unlike older browser version that only increased the size of the text
> leaving the layout alone now expand everything on the page including
> the layout. So the old "large font screws up my layout" is really no
> longer as important as it use to be.

A while to go yet in the same way that there is a while to go on how
better to help fractious nations like Iraq and Afghanistan without doing
more harm than good.

Let's suppose that pictures remain great when zoomed. Text too. But how
are you going to stop me cursing when I have to scroll to see things and
bits of things that already looked fine as they were except I just want
the text bigger at an expected cost of more vertical scrolling at most.
Why is it such progress when I have to work harder?

--
dorayme

On Sep 10, 7:47*am, dorayme <doraymeRidT...@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
> But how
> are you going to stop me cursing when I have to scroll to see things and
> bits of things that already looked fine as they were except I just want
> the text bigger at an expected cost of more vertical scrolling at most.

I don' want you to stop cursing, I like it when you talk dirty...

On Sep 10, 7:47*am, dorayme <doraymeRidT...@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
> Let's suppose that pictures remain great when zoomed. Text too. But how
> are you going to stop me cursing when I have to scroll to see things and
> bits of things that already looked fine as they were except I just want
> the text bigger at an expected cost of more vertical scrolling at most.
> Why is it such progress when I have to work harder?

Uh, since the browser is now the one that makes everything bigger
rather than just the text, perhaps you need to talk to them.