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Canon Rebel T1i Drawbacks?

 
 
PDM
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      08-24-2009

"whisky-dave" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:h6u3al$ctp$1@qmul...
>
> "me" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>> On Sun, 23 Aug 2009 07:59:15 -0700 (PDT), "(E-Mail Removed)"

>
>
>> I would think the more important aspects are the size/feel, control
>> and menu layout differences between Canon and Nikon.

>
> Well that can be true it is surely possible to adapt oneself, I have.
> My fist camera was a box with only an optical; viewfinder and took 120
> roll film.
> My next was a Praktica L which had the shutter release angled at 45%
> on the front of the body. Then a Praktica VLC2 then a EE2,
> then a canon AE1 then and A1, then a minolta compact, then a canon s70 now
> a G10.
> I can still hold the camera in one hand and a pint of beer in the other.
>
> But it is nice to have a camera operate like or at least similar to
> previous ones
> you've owned but it is in no way vital. Niether of my first two camera had
> meters or batteries.


Don't quite agree. When I first started to think seriously about getting a
DSLR, I tried out the then new Canon 300D. It was horrible. Ditto the 350D.
Just didn't feel right at all. Also tried out the early Pentax DSLRs. They
were even worse. Loved the feel of the Minoltas but they got gobbled up. My
film cameras were Nikon F, Hasselblad 500CM, Rollieflex, Yashicamat, MPP 5x4
and a pair of Pentax Spotmatics. Hated the F. Hated the Blad; awkward to
use. Loved MPP (but hated carrying the heavy duty tripod that went with it),
and I really loved the Spotmatics; fitted my hands like a glove; once
focused could operate one handed. The slogan at the time was: "just hold a
Pentax". Still have the Spotmatics today and I never ever bothered to
upgrade until I went digital. Camera feel is very important. More so that
anything else I think. And looking at past posts here and on other
newsgroups a lot of others agree.

PDM


 
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Jürgen Exner
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      08-24-2009
"whisky-dave" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>"me" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> I would think the more important aspects are the size/feel, control
>> and menu layout differences between Canon and Nikon.

>
>Well that can be true it is surely possible to adapt oneself, [...]
>But it is nice to have a camera operate like or at least similar to previous
>ones
>you've owned but it is in no way vital.


You are totally missing the point. There is a field of science called
ergonomics and it deals with adapting technology to fit humans instead
of humans adapt to technology.

If you have a choice between two otherwise very similar cameras, one
fits YOUR palm and fingers and the controls are in a convenient location
for YOUR hands while the other is awkward to hold, YOU need to bend YOUR
fingers sideways to reach the controls and YOU are always pushing two
buttons at the same time because they are just in the wrong location for
YOUR fingers, then the second one is a poor choice because you will
never be happy operating it.
For someone else with different hands and different fingers it may very
well be just the opposite way round.

Therefore it is important to actually handle a camera before buying it.

jue
 
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Pete D
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      08-24-2009

"PDM" <pdcm99[deletethisbit]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4a9223f8$(E-Mail Removed)...
>> I would think the more important aspects are the size/feel, control
>> and menu layout differences between Canon and Nikon.

>
> Agree 100%. Why I got Nikons. Fit my hands better. Canons too
> uncomfortable; although I like the 40D.
>
> PDM
>


And that Victoria is why I use neither Nikon or Canon, both ergonomics suck
for me.


 
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Miles Bader
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      08-25-2009
"Pete D" <(E-Mail Removed)> writes:
> And that Victoria is why I use neither Nikon or Canon, both ergonomics suck
> for me.


It's kind of a shame that the DSLR market seems to be winnowing the
field quite a bit compared to the film SLR market back in the day (maybe
in the end, the film SLR market was narrowing down too?). It was kind
of nice when there was a lot of fairly even competition, and a wide
variety of companies making high-quality cameras.

I don't know if it's the complexity of digital cameras (they're as
complicated as film SLRs, plus a whole lot more), the greater investment
required, the expansion of the market bringing hype and advertising into
greater prominence, or...?

-Miles

--
You can hack anything you want, with TECO and DDT.
 
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Matt Ion
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      08-25-2009
On 24/08/2009 7:20 AM, PDM wrote:

> Camera feel is very important. More so that
> anything else I think. And looking at past posts here and on other
> newsgroups a lot of others agree.


This has been my mantra for ages: the best camera is ALWAYS the one that
gets used. If a camera is confusing or uncomfortable or just plain
un-fun for *YOU* to use, then it's more likely to sit on a shelf
collecting dust than actually taking pictures... and all the specs and
comparisons and nit-picks and evangelizing in the world will be
absolutely meaningless.
 
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whisky-dave
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      08-25-2009

"Jürgen Exner" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> "whisky-dave" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>"me" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>> I would think the more important aspects are the size/feel, control
>>> and menu layout differences between Canon and Nikon.

>>
>>Well that can be true it is surely possible to adapt oneself, [...]
>>But it is nice to have a camera operate like or at least similar to
>>previous
>>ones
>>you've owned but it is in no way vital.

>
> You are totally missing the point. There is a field of science called
> ergonomics and it deals with adapting technology to fit humans instead
> of humans adapt to technology.


I remember that being said in the days of my Praktica, apparently a shutter
at the front of the body angled and 45 was optimum for reducing camera shake
and for comfortable holding, and I still prefer that and still wish my
current camera
were like that, but as far as I know there is NO camera that has this angled
release.

My S70 I really didn't like how the film speed was changed and I almost went
for a fuji
but I didn;t like the shape, so as with most things in life I compromised
otherwise I'd still be using my Praktica EE2 with my electric extention
tubes
and bellows, which is something I miss and I'd like to do with a DSLR
it's just the cost of gettign all that again puts me off.

> If you have a choice between two otherwise very similar cameras, one
> fits YOUR palm and fingers and the controls are in a convenient location
> for YOUR hands while the other is awkward to hold, YOU need to bend YOUR
> fingers sideways to reach the controls and YOU are always pushing two
> buttons at the same time because they are just in the wrong location for
> YOUR fingers, then the second one is a poor choice because you will
> never be happy operating it.


That's what I thought when goinf from my practika to my canon A1
The A1 is still my favourite camera to date.

> For someone else with different hands and different fingers it may very
> well be just the opposite way round.


Yep left handed people perhaps but over a period of years you
really should be prepared to adapt to some extend anyway otherwise
I'd insist on loading my memory card on to a take up spool.

> Therefore it is important to actually handle a camera before buying it.


I guess that's so, but for me not essential as I can adapt and have done in
the past
I can/will do it again.



 
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Sood
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      08-25-2009
On Aug 25, 8:36*am, "whisky-dave" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> "Jürgen Exner" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>
> > "whisky-dave" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> >>"me" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> >>> I would think the more important aspects are the size/feel, control
> >>> and menu layout differences between Canon and Nikon.

>
> >>Well that can be true it is surely possible to adapt oneself, [...]
> >>But it is nice to have a camera operate like or at least similar to
> >>previous
> >>ones
> >>you've owned but it is in no way vital.

>
> > You are totally missing the point. There is a field of science called
> > ergonomics and it deals with adapting technology to fit humans instead
> > of humans adapt to technology.

>
> I remember that being said in the days of my Praktica, apparently a shutter
> at the front of the body angled and 45 was optimum for reducing camera shake
> and for comfortable holding, and I still prefer that and still wish my
> current camera
> were like that, but as far as I know there is NO camera that has this angled
> release.
>
> My S70 I really didn't like how the film speed was changed and I almost went
> for a fuji
> but I didn;t like the shape, so as with most things in life I compromised
> otherwise I'd still be using my Praktica EE2 with my electric extention
> tubes
> and bellows, which is something I miss and I'd like to do with a DSLR
> it's just the cost of gettign all that again puts me off.
>
> > If you have a choice between two otherwise very similar cameras, one
> > fits YOUR palm and fingers and the controls are in a convenient location
> > for YOUR hands while the other is awkward to hold, YOU need to bend YOUR
> > fingers sideways to reach the controls and YOU are always pushing two
> > buttons at the same time because they are just in the wrong location for
> > YOUR fingers, then the second one is a poor choice because you will
> > never be happy operating it.

>
> That's what I thought when goinf from my practika to my canon A1
> The A1 is still my favourite camera to date.
>
> > For someone else with different hands and different fingers it may very
> > well be just the opposite way round.

>
> Yep left handed people perhaps but over a period of years you
> really should be prepared to adapt to some extend anyway otherwise
> I'd insist on loading my memory card on to a take up spool.
>
> > Therefore it is important to actually handle a camera before buying it.

>
> I guess that's so, but for me not essential as I can adapt and have done in
> the past
> I can/will do it again.



Last month I was shopping for a new DLSR and I narrowed it down to the
T1i, Xsi, and Sony A350. I ended up going with the T1i since it was
the newest model and had the ability to take movies in case I was on
the go somewhere and did not want to carry a separate video camera. I
am a DLSR novice, but the T1i is a great camera. I used dpreview.com
alot when doing research - it is a great site. Also, I just checked
the prices on the T1i and they have come down a bit since when I got
it. You can get the kit for about $800 now from Amazon (link:
http://preview.tinyurl.com/mngnl2)
 
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Speculation Sparky
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      08-25-2009
On Tue, 25 Aug 2009 14:36:09 +0100, "whisky-dave"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>I remember that being said in the days of my Praktica, apparently
>a shutter at the front of the body angled and 45 was optimum for
>reducing camera shake and for comfortable holding, and I still
>prefer that and still wish my current camera were like that, but as
>far as I know there is NO camera that has this angled release.


Hmm ... I guess you're right. The Canon Powershot Sn-IS series and some
Sony Cybershots only have them angled at about 35-degrees from level at the
top-front corner of their bodies (or 55-degrees from vertical, depending
how you're measuring). Probably a lot of other makes and models of P&S
cameras have similarly angled shutter-buttons, considering that same angle
shows up on two different cameras lines from two different manufacturers
five years apart. I guess that's not "optimum" enough for anyone. That
10-degrees from optimum must be cause for 99% of all those blurry images.
Though I wouldn't know about that. I've never been so lame as to place
blame on shutter-button angle causing any camera-shake. Maybe it's optimum
for someone who has the whiskey-shakes?

Then again, while 45-degrees might sound like an "optimum" solution for two
axes of camera motion, to someone who has never held a camera; they'd seem
to be forgetting the inertia of the mass of the camera, gravity (common and
pervasive, easy to dismiss), the way muscles in the hands might flex and in
which directions when "squeezing" the shutter, etc. Someone who has held a
camera might like the button angle a little flatter to the force of
gravity. Knowing that the hand is already pushing up in that axis so there
is less chance from force of the finger pushing back on that force to
change the angle of the camera. The best angle might come out somewhere
near ... oh ... maybe 35-degrees from level? But then, I'd know nothing
about why some things are "optimized" like that. As I said, shutter-button
angle has never been a concern nor cause nor blame for my being unable to
hold any camera steady at any time. I guess it would only be a concern for
the vast majority who keep looking for a camera to do absolutely everything
for them automatically, including designing one that keeps their hands from
shaking or even knowing how to push a camera's shutter-button properly.

"It didn't focus fast enough for me!" "Lousy camera can never focus
accurately, I need to send it in for recalibration again." "The camera
should take that picture before I snap the shutter because I'm always too
slow to know, and predict, the all-important 'when." "Damn camera didn't
set the exposure for me properly!" "If only I had faster machine-gun burst
rates I could have gotten that shot!" "This POS camera's shutter button is
not at 45-degrees! Look at all the camera-shake motion-blur in all my
photos because of that simple design flaw." "It cut off the tops of those
heads in this photo for me. There should not only be face-detection but
full-head detection too! How can these camera designers be so stupid to
miss a feature so simple and useful?"

Yes, it's always the camera's fault. Who else's fault could it possibly be?
There's nobody else standing around when you took that blurry underexposed
snapshot. Nobody else had their finger on your camera's shutter-button.
There is no other place to put the blame. It MUST be the camera's fault.
This calls for a better and more expensive camera. The camera that causes
these useless images is total crap and you can prove it! ..... Time and
time again.

It's always the camera's fault for why they never get any award-winning
shots. .... Isn't it.

 
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whisky-dave
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      08-25-2009

"Speculation Sparky" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> On Tue, 25 Aug 2009 14:36:09 +0100, "whisky-dave"
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>I remember that being said in the days of my Praktica, apparently
>>a shutter at the front of the body angled and 45 was optimum for
>>reducing camera shake and for comfortable holding, and I still
>>prefer that and still wish my current camera were like that, but as
>>far as I know there is NO camera that has this angled release.

>
> Hmm ... I guess you're right. The Canon Powershot Sn-IS series and some
> Sony Cybershots only have them angled at about 35-degrees from level at
> the
> top-front corner of their bodies (or 55-degrees from vertical, depending
> how you're measuring). Probably a lot of other makes and models of P&S
> cameras have similarly angled shutter-buttons, considering that same angle
> shows up on two different cameras lines from two different manufacturers
> five years apart. I guess that's not "optimum" enough for anyone.


Well they were testing them agaist shutter that were on the top which was
the only other place SLRs had them IIRC. it seemd to make sense that
such an angle should reduce the pressure needed applying from a downward
plunger, and remmebr all chamera were mechanical at the time.


> That
> 10-degrees from optimum must be cause for 99% of all those blurry images.
> Though I wouldn't know about that. I've never been so lame as to place
> blame on shutter-button angle causing any camera-shake. Maybe it's optimum
> for someone who has the whiskey-shakes?


well I was about 15 at the time, and it's whisky shakes as in scotch whisky
not that stuff you Americans call bourbon.
The only two camera I coudl afforde were teh Zinit and the Practika L
which was on special offer.



> shutter-button
> angle has never been a concern nor cause nor blame for my being unable to
> hold any camera steady at any time.


But how wopuld that work out as I'd been using a box camera with 120 roll
film
and that shutter was a plastic bar and was in a totally differnt position
to any SLR at the time.

> I guess it would only be a concern for
> the vast majority who keep looking for a camera to do absolutely
> everything
> for them automatically, including designing one that keeps their hands
> from
> shaking or even knowing how to push a camera's shutter-button properly.


>
> "It didn't focus fast enough for me!"

I had to focus it myself unlike my box camera.


>"Lousy camera can never focus
> accurately, I need to send it in for recalibration again."

Well on my SLR I had to use the lens to focus.
Are yuo saying peolpe can't adapt to other ways of focusing

>"The camera
> should take that picture before I snap the shutter because I'm always too
> slow to know, and predict, the all-important 'when."

The easist camer for that was my mechanical Praktica none of this 1/3 ,1/2
presses.
and NO lag that I could detect.

> "Damn camera didn't
> set the exposure for me properly!"

No I did that by guessing them buying a hand held meter.

>"If only I had faster machine-gun burst
> rates I could have gotten that shot!" "This POS camera's shutter button is
> not at 45-degrees!

~6 years later my canon SLR didn;t have the angled release, but I didn;t
give up and declare that I'd wait until one did. I adapted even though it
felt weird at first even in the shopm when trying it.

> How can these camera designers be so stupid to
> miss a feature so simple and useful?"


They did, but I adapted. less intelligent creatures can not adapt,
perhaps they lack dexterity like a monkey not being able to write or even
type
a line without wanking over the keyboard.

> It's always the camera's fault for why they never get any award-winning
> shots. .... Isn't it.


well if they can't move their trigger finger from one camera to another I
guess
they'll have to continue to use the same camera for the whole of their life
and keep getting it serviced or specially adapter for them because their
hand can only ever be placed in one position.
I would expect Steven hawkin to need such a camera but the
majority of able bodied people I would assume could adapt from time to time.
A bit like they adapt to a new car.

>



 
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PDM
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      08-25-2009

"Pete D" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:4a931d4e$0$28361$(E-Mail Removed)...
>
> "PDM" <pdcm99[deletethisbit]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:4a9223f8$(E-Mail Removed)...
>>> I would think the more important aspects are the size/feel, control
>>> and menu layout differences between Canon and Nikon.

>>
>> Agree 100%. Why I got Nikons. Fit my hands better. Canons too
>> uncomfortable; although I like the 40D.
>>
>> PDM
>>

>
> And that Victoria is why I use neither Nikon or Canon, both ergonomics
> suck for me.

Who is Victoria? And what do you use?

PDM


 
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