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Here's a great resource for Max Burke and any others new to Linux.

http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/5-downl...ourself-linux/

Don't return that linux netbook, why not learn to use it ?

In message <h67bo6$v4o$>, victor wrote:

> Here's a great resource for Max Burke and any others new to Linux.

But do they want to learn, or are they only interested in insisting on how
bad it is? Do they want to open their eyes, or just have their prejudices
reinforced?

On 2009-08-15, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <_zealand> wrote:
> In message <h67bo6$v4o$>, victor wrote:
>
>> Here's a great resource for Max Burke and any others new to Linux.
>
> But do they want to learn, or are they only interested in insisting on how
> bad it is? Do they want to open their eyes, or just have their prejudices
> reinforced?

That sales pitch will sell/convert very few people.

People what to be comfortable, take them outside their comfort zone and they
will fight to get back inside it.

What you need do is plant the seed, and walk away. It is their minds which
need opening, not their eyes.

I do love the situation where I put forward a point of view, only to have
the same person tell me about how good it is, and how I should be a
follower. I switch to their previos point of view and enjoy.

victor wrote:
> Here's a great resource for Max Burke and any others new to Linux.
>
> http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/5-downl...ourself-linux/
>
> Don't return that linux netbook, why not learn to use it ?

Thanks...

--

Replace the obvious with paradise.net to email me
Found Images
http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/~mlvburke

Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> In message <h67bo6$v4o$>, victor wrote:
>
>> Here's a great resource for Max Burke and any others new to Linux.
>
> But do they want to learn, or are they only interested in insisting on how
> bad it is? Do they want to open their eyes, or just have their prejudices
> reinforced?

Who knows ?
The longest journey begins with a single step.

"Lawrence D'Oliveiro" <_zealand> wrote in message
news:h67f3t$22o$...
> But do they want to learn, or are they only interested in insisting on how
> bad it is? Do they want to open their eyes, or just have their prejudices
> reinforced?

You just described your attitude towards Windows perfectly. Psychologists
call that projection Lawrence

In message <h6a4ia$d5$>, Max Burke wrote:

> It's a computer and an operating system. thats all.

And reading and writing is just reading and writing, that's all. Like once
you learn how to read and write, there's nothing new to learn about use of
language, literary technique, ways to explain yourself better, new
vocabulary, etc.

WRONG!

Same with computers. They are the universal machine: there's no end to the
things they can do. We keep coming up with new tasks for them all the time.
And more effective ways to do the same old things. If you don't keep up with
that, you're just holding yourself back. Think of how employable your skills
are, the uncertain state of today's job market, the absolutely pervasive and
crucial presence of IT right through the entire modern economy ... need I
say more?

> My personal experiments (not experience note) with Linux/Ubuntu is that
> it will not be a replacement for Windows for me. It simply doesn't do
> what I need it to do and what I can already do on Windows XP.

That's a sad thing to have to admit. Even Microsoft would rather you didn't
use Windows XP any more. And if they are not its biggest supporter, who is?
So who are you going to call for help? Looks like you and Woger will have to
cling to each other as you slowly circle closer and closer to the
plughole...

In message <h6a4ia$d5$>, Max Burke wrote:

> Trouble is I dont know what is being updated and why it needs to be
> updated because there little if any information about the update, other
> than spending time finding forums/websites on the net and reading about
> it first.

It's weird, it's like the Linux in your parallel universe bears no
resemblance to the one in our reality here.

I just fired up the Update Manager in Ubuntu Jaunty on my Eee. Immediately
it's showing me a list of "Important Security Updates". As I click on each
one, info is displayed under two separate tabs, "Changes" and "Description",
underneath. The latter is just the standard package description, but the
former shows me what's new in this update.

For instance, clicking on "firefox", under "Changes" I see

* security/stability v3.0.13 (FIREFOX_3_0_13_RELEASE) - see USN-811-1

That references an Ubuntu Security Notice which will give you more info,
including the CVE ID for a full announcement about how this affect all
releases of Firefox, not just the Ubuntu one.

Or, a more obscure example, "libnspr4-0d" tells me it's a "New upstream
version", with a link to a bug report in Launchpad that I can click, and a
USN ID.

In short, all the information is available for you right there, you just
have to make use of it.

In message <h6ad46$l0t$>, Nik Coughlin wrote:

> "Lawrence D'Oliveiro" <_zealand> wrote in message
> news:h67f3t$22o$...
>
>> But do they want to learn, or are they only interested in insisting on
>> how bad it is? Do they want to open their eyes, or just have their
>> prejudices reinforced?
>
> You just described your attitude towards Windows perfectly.

I know more about Windows than the most virulent anti-Linux trolls here know
about Linux, and I've proved it
<http://groups.google.co.nz/group/nz.comp/msg/db1a836f54fe6e86>. I believe
if you're going to meaningfully criticize something, you should do so from a
position of knowledge, not a position of ignorance. It's a position I don't
just preach, it's a position I practise.

> Psychologists call that projection Lawrence

Interesting that you should be so preoccupied with trying to diagnose
psychological issues in others. Have you been like this long?

> Max Burke wrote:
>
> Why anyone using a computer sees that as some sort of 'life changing,
> quasi religious' (as a large percentage of Linux users do) experience
> is, well just weird IMO.

I'm bored so I'll bite

I don't think I've experienced the "quasi-religious" thing but have
definitely experienced the "life-changing" thing.

When I compare how I used to work, communicate or entertain myself back in
my pre-computer days (mid-eighties) to how I do nowadays I can truthfully
say computers have changed my life.

What I consider weird is you saying that using a computer hasn't changed
your life.

>
> It's a computer and an operating system. thats all.
>
A bit like me saying to my brother (a mechanic with thirty-plus years in the
motor trade) "It's just a car. It gets me from A to B". True on one level
but I understand why he takes no notice of me when I give an opinion on
anything related to cars.

I'm guessing you're a MS tweaking power user. You're actually the worst kind
of linux newbie cos you require a whole lot of un-learning and a major
change in mindset, unlike my 80 year old grannie who just powers up Ubuntu
opens up Firefox and starts surfing. She doesn't compare MS software with
what Ubuntu has installed. She just uses what's in front of her. Unlike the
power user who once tweaked Nero 6.21 and (futilely) spends all morning
trying to get K3B to do the same thing.

Your hard-gained knowledge of MS is something to be proud of. But the fact
that it's pretty much worthless when using Linux makes Linux that much more
of a trial for you. You're always looking back. Not the best attitude for
anyone wanting to learn something new.

For the record (and for any Linux-curious reading this thread) there are
just three Linux things you *have* to get your head around or you'll go
crazy. Permissions, device/directory naming and

> My personal experiments (not experience note) with Linux/Ubuntu is that
> it will not be a replacement for Windows for me. It simply doesn't do
> what I need it to do and what I can already do on Windows XP.
>
> Yeah I know it's NOT windows but it does NEED to be able to allow me to
> use my computer as easily as Windows does if it's to be any sort of
> replacement for Windows.
>
> IOW If it's to be a replacement for windows then it actually NEEDS to be
> able to do what I already do in Windows.
>
> It doesn't.

Trust me, it does. Unless you're running some seriously entrenched
enterprise system Linux will do what you need, possibly not in a
like-for-like manner but the end result will be the same as MS.

Irregardless of what Impossible says, the average home user with maybe a
website on the side or the average business with a couple of dozen
employees can happily run Linux. Not saying there won't be the occasional
hiccup but show me a MS system that is problem-free. (Can't speak for big
companies i.e hundreds of employees, as I've had no first-hand dealings
with them).
>
> Specifically the available graphics applications for Linux/Ubuntu dont
> come close to cataloging/editing my photos collection like the freeware
> Windows ones do that I currently use.

I appreciate you're not asking for suggestions but, again, I'm thinking of
the Linux-curious who may end up reading this thread. Hopefully they won't
be discouraged by your lack of success.

I'm a birthdays and christmas photo snapper at best so I don't have much to
do with photo editing etc but....

Photo Editors: from the "absolute basic" mtpaint (which I use) to "the way
too complex for me" GIMP. Except for the "save to web" gimp plugin which I
use constantly for downsizing and attaching jpgs to emails. And the
Tools/ColorTools/Levels for brightening jpgs. Very easy to use.

Photo Cataloging: from the basic "GThumb" or "GQview" (which I use) to
the "really advanced and way too complex for me" Mapivi or this really
in-depth webpage which makes my eyes blur over....
http://tinyurl.com/qj4khd

Here's the usual "windows to linux" webpage...
http://www.linuxrsp.ru/win-lin-soft/table-eng.html

>
> Day to day system care/maintenance of Linux/Ubuntu simply does match the
> easy daily system care/maintenance of Windows.
> I'm talking about things like daily backups. In Windows it takes 10 to
> 15 minutes (mostly automatic) and I know that the backups are exactly
> what I need to backup, and I can easily reconfigure those backups down
> to selecting/changing individual files if required.
>
> Cant do that in Linux/Ubuntu at least not that I've been able to find.

Really surprised the Simple Backup Suite didn't win you over. It does what
it says. And it's absolutely simple to use and modify. Point and click.

To install......
sudo apt-get install sbackup

A HowTo.....
http://tinyurl.com/o7d2lx

.....note that the restored file now keeps its original owner and doesn't
default to root as mentioned in the HowTo. Developers responded to users.

>
> Keeping the OS up to date. Windows is a lot easier to keep up to date
> and I know what is being updated and why because Microsoft and third
> parties provide that information with the updates, which makes it easier
> to decide if I need to install the update or not.
>
> Linux/Ubuntu nearly every time/day I start it it immediately tells me it
> has updates available that I should install and they're often some sort
> of security update.
>
> (Yeah I know it can be turned off.)
>
> Trouble is I dont know what is being updated and why it needs to be
> updated because there little if any information about the update, other
> than spending time finding forums/websites on the net and reading about
> it first.
>
> If I dont know what the update is for then how can I decide if I need to
> or should allow it to be installed.

Strange to complain about an operating system being maintained.

I only turn on updates once a week-ish but normally I just accept all
critical or security updates and then have a quick look through whatever
else is listed. Hasn't steered me wrong (yet). If any programme updates
catch my eye I'll install them but I know it's no big deal as the entire
operating system is updated every six months (not every three or four
years) and the programme developers work to the same schedule. A few months
using KTorrent 3.0 as opposed to 3.2 is no big deal.

>
> So Linux/Ubuntu is mildly interesting to play around with and learn
> about another OS, but for the day to day use of an ordinary Windows
> computer user it just cant cut it as a replacement. (for me)
>

Ultimately, that's all that matters. Getting things done i.e productivity.

But don't forget the other variables e.g cost, security, stability and
support. All things which are down to the operating system and all areas in
which Linux easily equals MS.

Productivity is the key area of difference for you and that's pretty much
always down to the user, not the OS. You are more productive using MS. Good
for you. Ubuntu running KDE does what I need with minimum effort.

Regards
Lodi

PS I've definitely been reading this group for too long cos I can
practically write an Impossible response to this post. Her usual cliches.
Crap analogies, freetard mentality, real businesses use real software
etc.....