«

It's starting to make Microsoft look desperate
<http://blogs.zdnet.com/hardware/?p=5177>.

"Lawrence D'Oliveiro" <_zealand> wrote in message
news:h62etj$4jd$...
> It's starting to make Microsoft look desperate
> <http://blogs.zdnet.com/hardware/?p=5177>.

When sales of Linux netbooks have plumetted from 25% of the market to less
than 5%, I suppose returns of Linux netbooks would also decline.

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/07/chrome-linux/

Still, the Dell marketing manager can't escape the fact that a lot of people
are attracted , not to Linux, but to to the lower price of machnes with
Linux installed. Users think they're getting a bargain ersion of Windows,
only to discover they've simply gotten a cheap and nasty knock-off of
Windows.

"Where consumers have returned machines, Finch said, it wasn't because of
technical problems but because they'd bought a low-priced machine expecting
Windows and opened it to find a different interface....Issues persist,
particularly in battery life and power consumption, as well as with the
number of applications available from major ISVs that run on Linux."

It always comes down to applications. When will the nixheads learn?

"impossible" <> wrote in message
news:ip5hm.46$5n1.12@attbi_s21...
>
> "Lawrence D'Oliveiro" <_zealand> wrote in message
> news:h62etj$4jd$...
>> It's starting to make Microsoft look desperate
>> <http://blogs.zdnet.com/hardware/?p=5177>.
>
> When sales of Linux netbooks have plumetted from 25% of the market to less
> than 5%, I suppose returns of Linux netbooks would also decline.
>
> http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/07/chrome-linux/
>
> Still, the Dell marketing manager can't escape the fact that a lot of
> people are attracted , not to Linux, but to to the lower price of machnes
> with Linux installed. Users think they're getting a bargain ersion of
> Windows, only to discover they've simply gotten a cheap and nasty
> knock-off of Windows.
>
> "Where consumers have returned machines, Finch said, it wasn't because of
> technical problems but because they'd bought a low-priced machine
> expecting Windows and opened it to find a different interface....Issues
> persist, particularly in battery life and power consumption, as well as
> with the number of applications available from major ISVs that run on
> Linux."
>

Whoops! Forgot the reference.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/08...dows_netbooks/

> It always comes down to applications. When will the nixheads learn?
>
>
>

On 2009-08-14, impossible <> wrote:
> .... as well as with the
> number of applications available from major ISVs that run on Linux."
> It always comes down to applications. When will the nixheads learn?
>
In part, the other is something that is not familar.

Yes, I agree applications are starting to rule okay. The so called cross
platform programmes are breeding fast, thanks to the code being freely
avaliable.

Meanwhile think of this competition is good for you, the consumer. If
firefox had not arrived on the scene MSIE6 would still be ruling, for what
would be the insentive to change it?

Blessed is the rebel, for without her there would be no change.

"David Goodwin" <> wrote in message
news:h637u9$i2r$...
> impossible wrote:
>
>>
>> "Lawrence D'Oliveiro" <_zealand> wrote in message
>> news:h62etj$4jd$...
>>> It's starting to make Microsoft look desperate
>>> <http://blogs.zdnet.com/hardware/?p=5177>.
>>
>> When sales of Linux netbooks have plumetted from 25% of the market to
>> less
>> than 5%, I suppose returns of Linux netbooks would also decline.
>>
>> http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/07/chrome-linux/
>>
>> Still, the Dell marketing manager can't escape the fact that a lot of
>> people are attracted , not to Linux, but to to the lower price of machnes
>> with Linux installed. Users think they're getting a bargain ersion of
>> Windows, only to discover they've simply gotten a cheap and nasty
>> knock-off of Windows.
>
> Except that you forget one thing. GNU/Linux is a cheap and nasty knock-off
> of *UNIX*, not Windows. Except that it's not nasty - the GNU utilities
> tend
> to be much nicer to use than what is found in other UNIXes (except of
> course when the GNU utilities are actually included in the other UNIXes).
>

<yawn>

> Oh, and GNU wasn't originally designed as just a UNIX knock-off (GNU
> stands
> for GNUs Not UNIX). UNIX was just a good starting point. Many years
> (decades?) on they still haven't finished the kernel (Hurd) so everyone
> uses the Linux kernel (which is a UNIX clone) instead.
>

<yawn


..> So Linux is not a "cheap and nasty knock-off of Windows"
>

From the consumere's perspective, yes it is.

>> "Where consumers have returned machines, Finch said, it wasn't because of
>> technical problems but because they'd bought a low-priced machine
>> expecting Windows and opened it to find a different interface....Issues
>> persist, particularly in battery life and power consumption, as well as
>> with the number of applications available from major ISVs that run on
>> Linux."
>>
>> It always comes down to applications. When will the nixheads learn?
>
> That would be a good point if these "Netbook" things were designed as just
> cheap laptops. As the name "netbook" implies, these are designed for
> *Internet Applications* (Gmail, facebook, the Google Office thing, etc).
> For this purpose Linux does the job just fine and at a much lower price
> than Windows.

And yet many people continue to return these machines after discovering that
Linux is not Windows. Go figure.

> People don't complain when their Cellphone can't run Office
> 2007 do they? Why should it be any different with Netbooks?
>

Many a product has died with the marketing gurus behind it asking exactly
that sort of question. Lesson: The customer is always right.

> If people want to run Office or play Halo they should buy a real laptop.
> One
> with a proper sized keyboard and screen, a faster CPU and lots of RAM.

I'm thinking that anyone who wants to do anything that doesn't involve
squinting at an 8-10 inch screen should buy a real laptop. Why the nixhead
fascination with these under-powered and ultrimately very disappointing
netbooks?

On Aug 14, 1:33*pm, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <l...@geek-
central.gen.new_zealand> wrote:
> It's starting to make Microsoft look desperate
> <http://blogs.zdnet.com/hardware/?p=5177>.

Suffice to say that there is nothing that the OEM's would like better
than to be rid of Microsoft's stranglehold on the desktop software
market.

impossible wrote:

>
> "David Goodwin" <> wrote in message
> news:h637u9$i2r$...
>> impossible wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> "Lawrence D'Oliveiro" <_zealand> wrote in
>>> message news:h62etj$4jd$...
>>>> It's starting to make Microsoft look desperate
>>>> <http://blogs.zdnet.com/hardware/?p=5177>.
>>>
>>> When sales of Linux netbooks have plumetted from 25% of the market to
>>> less
>>> than 5%, I suppose returns of Linux netbooks would also decline.
>>>
>>> http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/07/chrome-linux/
>>>
>>> Still, the Dell marketing manager can't escape the fact that a lot of
>>> people are attracted , not to Linux, but to to the lower price of
>>> machnes with Linux installed. Users think they're getting a bargain
>>> ersion of Windows, only to discover they've simply gotten a cheap and
>>> nasty knock-off of Windows.
>>
>> Except that you forget one thing. GNU/Linux is a cheap and nasty
>> knock-off of *UNIX*, not Windows. Except that it's not nasty - the GNU
>> utilities tend
>> to be much nicer to use than what is found in other UNIXes (except of
>> course when the GNU utilities are actually included in the other UNIXes).
>>
>
> <yawn>
>
>> Oh, and GNU wasn't originally designed as just a UNIX knock-off (GNU
>> stands
>> for GNUs Not UNIX). UNIX was just a good starting point. Many years
>> (decades?) on they still haven't finished the kernel (Hurd) so everyone
>> uses the Linux kernel (which is a UNIX clone) instead.
>>
>
> <yawn
>
>
> .> So Linux is not a "cheap and nasty knock-off of Windows"
>>
>
> From the consumere's perspective, yes it is.

That may well be so. And it is sad that things have been allowed to get to
this point. The sooner this is corrected the better.

>>> "Where consumers have returned machines, Finch said, it wasn't because
>>> of technical problems but because they'd bought a low-priced machine
>>> expecting Windows and opened it to find a different interface....Issues
>>> persist, particularly in battery life and power consumption, as well as
>>> with the number of applications available from major ISVs that run on
>>> Linux."
>>>
>>> It always comes down to applications. When will the nixheads learn?
>>
>> That would be a good point if these "Netbook" things were designed as
>> just cheap laptops. As the name "netbook" implies, these are designed for
>> *Internet Applications* (Gmail, facebook, the Google Office thing, etc).
>> For this purpose Linux does the job just fine and at a much lower price
>> than Windows.
>
> And yet many people continue to return these machines after discovering
> that Linux is not Windows. Go figure.

I believe the article was about how people were *not* returning them because
of Linux.

>> People don't complain when their Cellphone can't run Office
>> 2007 do they? Why should it be any different with Netbooks?
>
> Many a product has died with the marketing gurus behind it asking exactly
> that sort of question. Lesson: The customer is always right.
>
>> If people want to run Office or play Halo they should buy a real laptop.
>> One
>> with a proper sized keyboard and screen, a faster CPU and lots of RAM.
>
> I'm thinking that anyone who wants to do anything that doesn't involve
> squinting at an 8-10 inch screen should buy a real laptop. Why the nixhead
> fascination with these under-powered and ultrimately very disappointing
> netbooks?

I quite agree. I tried typing on a friends Eee PC and found the keyboard
rather uncomfortable to use.

I do not think these systems are fascinating because of the hardware - they
are, as you pointed out, by no means remarkable. I suspect some find them
interesting because they are perhaps a sign that things are changing.
Microsoft Corporations Operating System monopoly is perhaps not as strong
as it once was or appeared to be. Others (such as Google) appear to have
noticed and are trying to take advantage of this.

The strength of Windows has traditionally been based on the difficulty of
writing portable software as you have so often pointed out. The problem for
Microsoft is that writing portable software isn't actually difficult
anymore. As more developers realise this, Microsofts position becomes
weaker.

On Sat, 15 Aug 2009 14:51:08 +1200
David Goodwin <> wrote:

<snip>
> I quite agree. I tried typing on a friends Eee PC and found the
> keyboard rather uncomfortable to use.
>
> I do not think these systems are fascinating because of the hardware
> - they are, as you pointed out, by no means remarkable. I suspect
> some find them interesting because they are perhaps a sign that
> things are changing. Microsoft Corporations Operating System monopoly
> is perhaps not as strong as it once was or appeared to be. Others
> (such as Google) appear to have noticed and are trying to take
> advantage of this.
>
> The strength of Windows has traditionally been based on the
> difficulty of writing portable software as you have so often pointed
> out. The problem for Microsoft is that writing portable software
> isn't actually difficult anymore. As more developers realise this,
> Microsofts position becomes weaker.
Hi
This one isn't too bad @92% for the keyboard

So far with this test release of openSuSE everything hardware wise is
working fine. Can play video, dvd's etc with the fluendo codec bundle
and dvd player and have provided a patched module for the kernel to
enable the Sabrant USB HDTV to run fine.

The only windows program I use is Garmin Mapsource, but since I have a
free copy of crossover it works without issues.

This one has the 280 cpu (HT) and a slightly faster FSB but it rocks
along and get around 5 and a half hours of battery life with everything
running.

--
Cheers Malcolm °¿° (Linux Counter #276890)
openSUSE 11.2 Milestone 5 (i586) Kernel 2.6.31-rc5-git3-2-desktop
up 22:20, 2 users, load average: 0.00, 0.01, 0.00
ASUS eeePC 1000HE ATOM N280 1.66GHz | GPU Mobile 945GM/GMS/GME

whoisthis wrote:

> In article
> <3cd35c6b-d2cb-4bc1-9017->,
> peterwn <> wrote:
>
>> On Aug 14, 1:33Â*pm, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <l...@geek-
>> central.gen.new_zealand> wrote:
>> > It's starting to make Microsoft look desperate
>> > <http://blogs.zdnet.com/hardware/?p=5177>.
>>
>> Suffice to say that there is nothing that the OEM's would like better
>> than to be rid of Microsoft's stranglehold on the desktop software
>> market.
>
> Why ?, its not going to improve their profit margins...
> Truth is they could walk away any time they like and install linux on
> 100% of their machines...... but they know they can not do that, it
> would kill them.

I suppose selling linux systems gives them more freedom. They can customise
their Linux systems to a far greater extent (custom GUI for a Netbook for
example). Linux supports more hardware too - Windows NT hasn't run on a
MIPS CPU since the 90s and its never run on ARM as far as I know.

Malcolm wrote:

> On Sat, 15 Aug 2009 14:51:08 +1200
> David Goodwin <> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>> I quite agree. I tried typing on a friends Eee PC and found the
>> keyboard rather uncomfortable to use.
>>
>> I do not think these systems are fascinating because of the hardware
>> - they are, as you pointed out, by no means remarkable. I suspect
>> some find them interesting because they are perhaps a sign that
>> things are changing. Microsoft Corporations Operating System monopoly
>> is perhaps not as strong as it once was or appeared to be. Others
>> (such as Google) appear to have noticed and are trying to take
>> advantage of this.
>>
>> The strength of Windows has traditionally been based on the
>> difficulty of writing portable software as you have so often pointed
>> out. The problem for Microsoft is that writing portable software
>> isn't actually difficult anymore. As more developers realise this,
>> Microsofts position becomes weaker.
> Hi
> This one isn't too bad @92% for the keyboard

I suppose I am probably a bit of a keyboard snob - my laptop (HP nx6125) has
full size keys and I have an IBM Model M keyboard on my desktop computer

> So far with this test release of openSuSE everything hardware wise is
> working fine. Can play video, dvd's etc with the fluendo codec bundle
> and dvd player and have provided a patched module for the kernel to
> enable the Sabrant USB HDTV to run fine.
>
> The only windows program I use is Garmin Mapsource, but since I have a
> free copy of crossover it works without issues.
>
> This one has the 280 cpu (HT) and a slightly faster FSB but it rocks
> along and get around 5 and a half hours of battery life with everything
> running.

What do you use as a Desktop Environment?

For such devices I imagine the flexibility of Plasma would come in handy.
I've heard the KDE people are planning to provide a UI optimised for small
screens in the next release of KDE4 (v4.4?). Everyone else seems to be
doing something similar too - Gnome, Intel, Google, etc.