«

http://blogs.computerworld.com/node/14432/print

"There's really nothing that hard about installing programs on Linux.
Anyone who still uses shell commands like say, "apt-get install
some-program-or-the-other," is doing so because they want to do it
that way, not because they have to. Programs like Debian and Ubuntu's
Synaptic, Fedora's yum or openSUSE's YaST makes installing programs
little more than a matter of point and click. Still, some people have
trouble, so Ubuntu is reviving a dusty, old project, AppCenter so that
anyone can install Linux programs."


If they pull this off, Linux on the desktop might actually get some
traction beyond the LiNerds that shout and scream about how easy it is
to use, while being derogatory to the 'mere mortals' that give it a
go, get stuck, and end up asking for help starting from what they
already know (Windows generally).

If application installation in Ubuntu becomes as easy as it is in
Windows, then Apple could be locked into their current position of
being a provincial player, and finally it will provide some much
needed competition to Windows.


Alan.

--

The views expressed are my own, not those of my employer or others.
My unmunged email is: (valid for 30 days
min probably much longer).

On Mon, 27 Jul 2009 12:07:01 +1200
"Alan" <> wrote:

> http://blogs.computerworld.com/node/14432/print
>
> "There's really nothing that hard about installing programs on Linux.
> Anyone who still uses shell commands like say, "apt-get install
> some-program-or-the-other," is doing so because they want to do it
> that way, not because they have to. Programs like Debian and Ubuntu's
> Synaptic, Fedora's yum or openSUSE's YaST makes installing programs
> little more than a matter of point and click. Still, some people have
> trouble, so Ubuntu is reviving a dusty, old project, AppCenter so
> that anyone can install Linux programs."
>
>
> If they pull this off, Linux on the desktop might actually get some
> traction beyond the LiNerds that shout and scream about how easy it
> is to use, while being derogatory to the 'mere mortals' that give it
> a go, get stuck, and end up asking for help starting from what they
> already know (Windows generally).
>
> If application installation in Ubuntu becomes as easy as it is in
> Windows, then Apple could be locked into their current position of
> being a provincial player, and finally it will provide some much
> needed competition to Windows.
>
>
> Alan.
>
Hi
Or you can use 1-click http://software.opensuse.org/search? note the
OBS covers more than just openSuSE as well.

--
Cheers Malcolm °¿° (Linux Counter #276890)
SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop 11 (x86_64) Kernel 2.6.27.25-0.1-default
up 3 days 6:36, 2 users, load average: 0.52, 0.31, 0.25
GPU GeForce 8600 GTS Silent - Driver Version: 185.18.14

Alan wrote:
> http://blogs.computerworld.com/node/14432/print
>
> "There's really nothing that hard about installing programs on Linux.
> Anyone who still uses shell commands like say, "apt-get install
> some-program-or-the-other," is doing so because they want to do it that
> way, not because they have to. Programs like Debian and Ubuntu's
> Synaptic, Fedora's yum or openSUSE's YaST makes installing programs
> little more than a matter of point and click. Still, some people have
> trouble, so Ubuntu is reviving a dusty, old project, AppCenter so that
> anyone can install Linux programs."
>
>
> If they pull this off, Linux on the desktop might actually get some
> traction beyond the LiNerds that shout and scream about how easy it is
> to use, while being derogatory to the 'mere mortals' that give it a go,
> get stuck, and end up asking for help starting from what they already
> know (Windows generally).
>
> If application installation in Ubuntu becomes as easy as it is in
> Windows, then Apple could be locked into their current position of being
> a provincial player, and finally it will provide some much needed
> competition to Windows.

Still got a long way to go to be as easy to use as Windows; Microsoft
and time aint going to wait around for Linux/Ubuntu to catch up...

My experience so far using Ubuntu is that you can find apps that will
match those you/I use in Windows (to a certain extent) but they're no
where near as easy to install and get working as the equivalent Windows
ones are.

Two examples:

1#
In Windows I use SpeedFan (http://www.almico.com/sfdownload.php)
as a temperature/voltage/fan system monitor.

All that is required to install it is to download the EXE install file,
run the install file, and then it just does what it says it does.

To do the [near] equivalent in Ubuntu I found Gnome Sensors Applet:
Have a read of what has to be done to get this app to work..

First I had to follow the instructions here, to get the sensors
installed and working.
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2780

Then I had to follow the instructions here to get them monitoring what I
wanted them to monitor:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=92504

Finally I had to add then to a panel to display the temperatures, etc.


2#
Then I needed an app to monitor my Epson Stylus Photo 890 printers ink
cartridges, do head cleaning; etc.

In Windows I use SSC Service Utility. http://www.ssclg.com/epsone.shtml
(another free ware app that I have been using for years from Win95 to
Win XP Pro)
Again all it takes is download the install exe, run it, then run the
programme, it detects the printer and displays the ink cartridge levels.
That's it.

In Ubuntu the closest app I have found is MTInk
Help/Install instructions are here:

http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-28175.html

But I had to use the terminal editor to give myself permission to use
mtink, set up an lp group and make myself part of that group, and edit
the printer usb connection so mtink could see it.

But I got it working eventually...

I can see now why Linux users talk up being able to use the 'command
line' so much.
Quite often it's the only way you can get anything to work...



--

Replace the obvious with paradise.net to email me
Found Images
http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/~mlvburke

On Mon, 27 Jul 2009 16:57:55 +1200
Max Burke <> wrote:

<snip>
> Still got a long way to go to be as easy to use as Windows; Microsoft
> and time aint going to wait around for Linux/Ubuntu to catch up...
>
> My experience so far using Ubuntu is that you can find apps that will
> match those you/I use in Windows (to a certain extent) but they're no
> where near as easy to install and get working as the equivalent
> Windows ones are.
<snip>
Hi
Whilst I agree with your comments In SLE/openSuSE YaST provides a
certain amount of tools so you don't need to use the command line for
everything. Guess I've spent too much time at the CLI it's second
nature......

Have a look at gkrellm
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/...m/gkrellm.html
That combined with hddtemp and lm_sensors provides good detail.

I use HP printers here, the HP Manager (hplip) provides all the info
and tools you need.


--
Cheers Malcolm °¿° (Linux Counter #276890)
SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop 11 (x86_64) Kernel 2.6.27.25-0.1-default
up 2:52, 2 users, load average: 3.59, 2.48, 1.45
GPU GeForce 8600 GTS Silent - Driver Version: 185.18.14

Max Burke wrote:
> Alan wrote:
>> http://blogs.computerworld.com/node/14432/print
>>
>> "There's really nothing that hard about installing programs on Linux.
>> Anyone who still uses shell commands like say, "apt-get install
>> some-program-or-the-other," is doing so because they want to do it
>> that way, not because they have to. Programs like Debian and Ubuntu's
>> Synaptic, Fedora's yum or openSUSE's YaST makes installing programs
>> little more than a matter of point and click. Still, some people have
>> trouble, so Ubuntu is reviving a dusty, old project, AppCenter so that
>> anyone can install Linux programs."
>>
>>
>> If they pull this off, Linux on the desktop might actually get some
>> traction beyond the LiNerds that shout and scream about how easy it is
>> to use, while being derogatory to the 'mere mortals' that give it a
>> go, get stuck, and end up asking for help starting from what they
>> already know (Windows generally).
>>
>> If application installation in Ubuntu becomes as easy as it is in
>> Windows, then Apple could be locked into their current position of
>> being a provincial player, and finally it will provide some much
>> needed competition to Windows.
>
> Still got a long way to go to be as easy to use as Windows; Microsoft
> and time aint going to wait around for Linux/Ubuntu to catch up...
>
> My experience so far using Ubuntu is that you can find apps that will
> match those you/I use in Windows (to a certain extent) but they're no
> where near as easy to install and get working as the equivalent Windows
> ones are.
>
> Two examples:
>
> 1#
> In Windows I use SpeedFan (http://www.almico.com/sfdownload.php)
> as a temperature/voltage/fan system monitor.
>
> All that is required to install it is to download the EXE install file,
> run the install file, and then it just does what it says it does.
>
> To do the [near] equivalent in Ubuntu I found Gnome Sensors Applet:
> Have a read of what has to be done to get this app to work..
>
> First I had to follow the instructions here, to get the sensors
> installed and working.
> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2780
>
> Then I had to follow the instructions here to get them monitoring what I
> wanted them to monitor:
> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=92504
>
> Finally I had to add then to a panel to display the temperatures, etc.
>
>
> 2#
> Then I needed an app to monitor my Epson Stylus Photo 890 printers ink
> cartridges, do head cleaning; etc.
>
> In Windows I use SSC Service Utility. http://www.ssclg.com/epsone.shtml
> (another free ware app that I have been using for years from Win95 to
> Win XP Pro)
> Again all it takes is download the install exe, run it, then run the
> programme, it detects the printer and displays the ink cartridge levels.
> That's it.
>
> In Ubuntu the closest app I have found is MTInk
> Help/Install instructions are here:
>
> http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-28175.html
>
> But I had to use the terminal editor to give myself permission to use
> mtink, set up an lp group and make myself part of that group, and edit
> the printer usb connection so mtink could see it.
>
> But I got it working eventually...
>
> I can see now why Linux users talk up being able to use the 'command
> line' so much.
> Quite often it's the only way you can get anything to work...
>
>
>
Its costing you a fortune !!
Your time is obviously worth nothing

"victor" <> wrote in message
news:h4jla3$c0n$...
> Max Burke wrote:
>> Alan wrote:
>>> http://blogs.computerworld.com/node/14432/print
>>>
>>> "There's really nothing that hard about installing programs on
>>> Linux. Anyone who still uses shell commands like say, "apt-get
>>> install some-program-or-the-other," is doing so because they want
>>> to do it that way, not because they have to. Programs like Debian
>>> and Ubuntu's Synaptic, Fedora's yum or openSUSE's YaST makes
>>> installing programs little more than a matter of point and click.
>>> Still, some people have trouble, so Ubuntu is reviving a dusty,
>>> old project, AppCenter so that anyone can install Linux programs."
>>>
>>>
>>> If they pull this off, Linux on the desktop might actually get
>>> some traction beyond the LiNerds that shout and scream about how
>>> easy it is to use, while being derogatory to the 'mere mortals'
>>> that give it a go, get stuck, and end up asking for help starting
>>> from what they already know (Windows generally).
>>>
>>> If application installation in Ubuntu becomes as easy as it is in
>>> Windows, then Apple could be locked into their current position of
>>> being a provincial player, and finally it will provide some much
>>> needed competition to Windows.
>>
>> Still got a long way to go to be as easy to use as Windows;
>> Microsoft and time aint going to wait around for Linux/Ubuntu to
>> catch up...
>>
>> My experience so far using Ubuntu is that you can find apps that
>> will match those you/I use in Windows (to a certain extent) but
>> they're no where near as easy to install and get working as the
>> equivalent Windows ones are.
>>
>> Two examples:
>>
>> 1#
>> In Windows I use SpeedFan (http://www.almico.com/sfdownload.php)
>> as a temperature/voltage/fan system monitor.
>>
>> All that is required to install it is to download the EXE install
>> file, run the install file, and then it just does what it says it
>> does.
>>
>> To do the [near] equivalent in Ubuntu I found Gnome Sensors Applet:
>> Have a read of what has to be done to get this app to work..
>>
>> First I had to follow the instructions here, to get the sensors
>> installed and working.
>> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2780
>>
>> Then I had to follow the instructions here to get them monitoring
>> what I wanted them to monitor:
>> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=92504
>>
>> Finally I had to add then to a panel to display the temperatures,
>> etc.
>>
>>
>> 2#
>> Then I needed an app to monitor my Epson Stylus Photo 890 printers
>> ink cartridges, do head cleaning; etc.
>>
>> In Windows I use SSC Service Utility.
>> http://www.ssclg.com/epsone.shtml
>> (another free ware app that I have been using for years from Win95
>> to Win XP Pro)
>> Again all it takes is download the install exe, run it, then run
>> the programme, it detects the printer and displays the ink
>> cartridge levels.
>> That's it.
>>
>> In Ubuntu the closest app I have found is MTInk
>> Help/Install instructions are here:
>>
>> http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-28175.html
>>
>> But I had to use the terminal editor to give myself permission to
>> use mtink, set up an lp group and make myself part of that group,
>> and edit the printer usb connection so mtink could see it.
>>
>> But I got it working eventually...
>>
>> I can see now why Linux users talk up being able to use the
>> 'command line' so much.
>> Quite often it's the only way you can get anything to work...
>>
>>
>>
> Its costing you a fortune !!
> Your time is obviously worth nothing
>
>

You may be joking (or perhaps not), but that is why the TCO for a
windows environment is frequently lower than an Linux environment.

If you were starting from a zero base in both cases (both
administration and user side) then probably Linux would win out, but
for most businesses, the TCO of switching to Linux is just far too
high.

Add to that, finding a reliable Linux expert with recognised
qualifications is also both more difficult and more expensive, and the
heterogeneity of Linux environments means that if your tame Linux
support guy leaves or gets uppity, you can have major issues that just
won't be there in windows land where almost any IT company can walk in
and have things working in five minutes.

Them's the strengths and also the frustrations of Linux-land. We have
such a long way to go ;-(

Alan.


--

The views expressed are my own, not those of my employer or others.
My unmunged email is: (valid for 30 days
min probably much longer).

Alan wrote:
> "victor" <> wrote in message
> news:h4jla3$c0n$...
>> Max Burke wrote:
>>> Alan wrote:
>>>> http://blogs.computerworld.com/node/14432/print
>>>>
>>>> "There's really nothing that hard about installing programs on
>>>> Linux. Anyone who still uses shell commands like say, "apt-get
>>>> install some-program-or-the-other," is doing so because they want to
>>>> do it that way, not because they have to. Programs like Debian and
>>>> Ubuntu's Synaptic, Fedora's yum or openSUSE's YaST makes installing
>>>> programs little more than a matter of point and click. Still, some
>>>> people have trouble, so Ubuntu is reviving a dusty, old project,
>>>> AppCenter so that anyone can install Linux programs."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If they pull this off, Linux on the desktop might actually get some
>>>> traction beyond the LiNerds that shout and scream about how easy it
>>>> is to use, while being derogatory to the 'mere mortals' that give it
>>>> a go, get stuck, and end up asking for help starting from what they
>>>> already know (Windows generally).
>>>>
>>>> If application installation in Ubuntu becomes as easy as it is in
>>>> Windows, then Apple could be locked into their current position of
>>>> being a provincial player, and finally it will provide some much
>>>> needed competition to Windows.
>>>
>>> Still got a long way to go to be as easy to use as Windows; Microsoft
>>> and time aint going to wait around for Linux/Ubuntu to catch up...
>>>
>>> My experience so far using Ubuntu is that you can find apps that will
>>> match those you/I use in Windows (to a certain extent) but they're no
>>> where near as easy to install and get working as the equivalent
>>> Windows ones are.
>>>
>>> Two examples:
>>>
>>> 1#
>>> In Windows I use SpeedFan (http://www.almico.com/sfdownload.php)
>>> as a temperature/voltage/fan system monitor.
>>>
>>> All that is required to install it is to download the EXE install
>>> file, run the install file, and then it just does what it says it does.
>>>
>>> To do the [near] equivalent in Ubuntu I found Gnome Sensors Applet:
>>> Have a read of what has to be done to get this app to work..
>>>
>>> First I had to follow the instructions here, to get the sensors
>>> installed and working.
>>> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2780
>>>
>>> Then I had to follow the instructions here to get them monitoring
>>> what I wanted them to monitor:
>>> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=92504
>>>
>>> Finally I had to add then to a panel to display the temperatures, etc.
>>>
>>>
>>> 2#
>>> Then I needed an app to monitor my Epson Stylus Photo 890 printers
>>> ink cartridges, do head cleaning; etc.
>>>
>>> In Windows I use SSC Service Utility. http://www.ssclg.com/epsone.shtml
>>> (another free ware app that I have been using for years from Win95 to
>>> Win XP Pro)
>>> Again all it takes is download the install exe, run it, then run the
>>> programme, it detects the printer and displays the ink cartridge levels.
>>> That's it.
>>>
>>> In Ubuntu the closest app I have found is MTInk
>>> Help/Install instructions are here:
>>>
>>> http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-28175.html
>>>
>>> But I had to use the terminal editor to give myself permission to use
>>> mtink, set up an lp group and make myself part of that group, and
>>> edit the printer usb connection so mtink could see it.
>>>
>>> But I got it working eventually...
>>>
>>> I can see now why Linux users talk up being able to use the 'command
>>> line' so much.
>>> Quite often it's the only way you can get anything to work...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Its costing you a fortune !!
>> Your time is obviously worth nothing
>>
>>
>
> You may be joking (or perhaps not), but that is why the TCO for a
> windows environment is frequently lower than an Linux environment.
>
> If you were starting from a zero base in both cases (both administration
> and user side) then probably Linux would win out, but for most
> businesses, the TCO of switching to Linux is just far too high.
>
> Add to that, finding a reliable Linux expert with recognised
> qualifications is also both more difficult and more expensive, and the
> heterogeneity of Linux environments means that if your tame Linux
> support guy leaves or gets uppity, you can have major issues that just
> won't be there in windows land where almost any IT company can walk in
> and have things working in five minutes.
>
> Them's the strengths and also the frustrations of Linux-land. We have
> such a long way to go ;-(
>
> Alan.
>
>
You and the article you posted seem to assume that improvements in Linux
are made with the objective of capturing Microsoft or Apple customers.
Why ?
If there is no reason to switch, then don't.
Ubuntu comes with at least 6 apt installers by default, its no big deal
if they add another one.

"victor" <> wrote in message
news:h4jn1b$i37$...
> Alan wrote:
>> "victor" <> wrote in message
>> news:h4jla3$c0n$...
>>> Max Burke wrote:
>>>> Alan wrote:
>>>>> http://blogs.computerworld.com/node/14432/print
>>>>>
>>>>> "There's really nothing that hard about installing programs on
>>>>> Linux. Anyone who still uses shell commands like say, "apt-get
>>>>> install some-program-or-the-other," is doing so because they
>>>>> want to do it that way, not because they have to. Programs like
>>>>> Debian and Ubuntu's Synaptic, Fedora's yum or openSUSE's YaST
>>>>> makes installing programs little more than a matter of point and
>>>>> click. Still, some people have trouble, so Ubuntu is reviving a
>>>>> dusty, old project, AppCenter so that anyone can install Linux
>>>>> programs."
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> If they pull this off, Linux on the desktop might actually get
>>>>> some traction beyond the LiNerds that shout and scream about how
>>>>> easy it is to use, while being derogatory to the 'mere mortals'
>>>>> that give it a go, get stuck, and end up asking for help
>>>>> starting from what they already know (Windows generally).
>>>>>
>>>>> If application installation in Ubuntu becomes as easy as it is
>>>>> in Windows, then Apple could be locked into their current
>>>>> position of being a provincial player, and finally it will
>>>>> provide some much needed competition to Windows.
>>>>
>>>> Still got a long way to go to be as easy to use as Windows;
>>>> Microsoft and time aint going to wait around for Linux/Ubuntu to
>>>> catch up...
>>>>
>>>> My experience so far using Ubuntu is that you can find apps that
>>>> will match those you/I use in Windows (to a certain extent) but
>>>> they're no where near as easy to install and get working as the
>>>> equivalent Windows ones are.
>>>>
>>>> Two examples:
>>>>
>>>> 1#
>>>> In Windows I use SpeedFan (http://www.almico.com/sfdownload.php)
>>>> as a temperature/voltage/fan system monitor.
>>>>
>>>> All that is required to install it is to download the EXE install
>>>> file, run the install file, and then it just does what it says it
>>>> does.
>>>>
>>>> To do the [near] equivalent in Ubuntu I found Gnome Sensors
>>>> Applet:
>>>> Have a read of what has to be done to get this app to work..
>>>>
>>>> First I had to follow the instructions here, to get the sensors
>>>> installed and working.
>>>> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2780
>>>>
>>>> Then I had to follow the instructions here to get them monitoring
>>>> what I wanted them to monitor:
>>>> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=92504
>>>>
>>>> Finally I had to add then to a panel to display the temperatures,
>>>> etc.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2#
>>>> Then I needed an app to monitor my Epson Stylus Photo 890
>>>> printers ink cartridges, do head cleaning; etc.
>>>>
>>>> In Windows I use SSC Service Utility.
>>>> http://www.ssclg.com/epsone.shtml
>>>> (another free ware app that I have been using for years from
>>>> Win95 to Win XP Pro)
>>>> Again all it takes is download the install exe, run it, then run
>>>> the programme, it detects the printer and displays the ink
>>>> cartridge levels.
>>>> That's it.
>>>>
>>>> In Ubuntu the closest app I have found is MTInk
>>>> Help/Install instructions are here:
>>>>
>>>> http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-28175.html
>>>>
>>>> But I had to use the terminal editor to give myself permission to
>>>> use mtink, set up an lp group and make myself part of that group,
>>>> and edit the printer usb connection so mtink could see it.
>>>>
>>>> But I got it working eventually...
>>>>
>>>> I can see now why Linux users talk up being able to use the
>>>> 'command line' so much.
>>>> Quite often it's the only way you can get anything to work...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Its costing you a fortune !!
>>> Your time is obviously worth nothing
>>>
>>>
>>
>> You may be joking (or perhaps not), but that is why the TCO for a
>> windows environment is frequently lower than an Linux environment.
>>
>> If you were starting from a zero base in both cases (both
>> administration and user side) then probably Linux would win out,
>> but for most businesses, the TCO of switching to Linux is just far
>> too high.
>>
>> Add to that, finding a reliable Linux expert with recognised
>> qualifications is also both more difficult and more expensive, and
>> the heterogeneity of Linux environments means that if your tame
>> Linux support guy leaves or gets uppity, you can have major issues
>> that just won't be there in windows land where almost any IT
>> company can walk in and have things working in five minutes.
>>
>> Them's the strengths and also the frustrations of Linux-land. We
>> have such a long way to go ;-(
>>
>> Alan.
>>
>>
> You and the article you posted seem to assume that improvements in
> Linux are made with the objective of capturing Microsoft or Apple
> customers.
> Why ?
>

Well, existing users have either given up, or gotten over the
difficulties.

Hence is seems fair to say that the addition of an 'easy to use'
installer is aimed at new users, and for a new user, each OS is
implicitly in competition with the others (accepting that may users
will use two or more OSs and each flavour of Linux is in implicit
competition with the other flavours).

>
> If there is no reason to switch, then don't.
> Ubuntu comes with at least 6 apt installers by default, its no big
> deal if they add another one.
>

Alan.

--

The views expressed are my own, not those of my employer or others.
My unmunged email is: (valid for 30 days
min probably much longer).

Alan wrote:
> "victor" <> wrote in message
> news:h4jn1b$i37$...
>> Alan wrote:
>>> "victor" <> wrote in message
>>> news:h4jla3$c0n$...
>>>> Max Burke wrote:
>>>>> Alan wrote:
>>>>>> http://blogs.computerworld.com/node/14432/print
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "There's really nothing that hard about installing programs on
>>>>>> Linux. Anyone who still uses shell commands like say, "apt-get
>>>>>> install some-program-or-the-other," is doing so because they want
>>>>>> to do it that way, not because they have to. Programs like Debian
>>>>>> and Ubuntu's Synaptic, Fedora's yum or openSUSE's YaST makes
>>>>>> installing programs little more than a matter of point and click.
>>>>>> Still, some people have trouble, so Ubuntu is reviving a dusty,
>>>>>> old project, AppCenter so that anyone can install Linux programs."
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If they pull this off, Linux on the desktop might actually get
>>>>>> some traction beyond the LiNerds that shout and scream about how
>>>>>> easy it is to use, while being derogatory to the 'mere mortals'
>>>>>> that give it a go, get stuck, and end up asking for help starting
>>>>>> from what they already know (Windows generally).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If application installation in Ubuntu becomes as easy as it is in
>>>>>> Windows, then Apple could be locked into their current position of
>>>>>> being a provincial player, and finally it will provide some much
>>>>>> needed competition to Windows.
>>>>>
>>>>> Still got a long way to go to be as easy to use as Windows;
>>>>> Microsoft and time aint going to wait around for Linux/Ubuntu to
>>>>> catch up...
>>>>>
>>>>> My experience so far using Ubuntu is that you can find apps that
>>>>> will match those you/I use in Windows (to a certain extent) but
>>>>> they're no where near as easy to install and get working as the
>>>>> equivalent Windows ones are.
>>>>>
>>>>> Two examples:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1#
>>>>> In Windows I use SpeedFan (http://www.almico.com/sfdownload.php)
>>>>> as a temperature/voltage/fan system monitor.
>>>>>
>>>>> All that is required to install it is to download the EXE install
>>>>> file, run the install file, and then it just does what it says it
>>>>> does.
>>>>>
>>>>> To do the [near] equivalent in Ubuntu I found Gnome Sensors Applet:
>>>>> Have a read of what has to be done to get this app to work..
>>>>>
>>>>> First I had to follow the instructions here, to get the sensors
>>>>> installed and working.
>>>>> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2780
>>>>>
>>>>> Then I had to follow the instructions here to get them monitoring
>>>>> what I wanted them to monitor:
>>>>> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=92504
>>>>>
>>>>> Finally I had to add then to a panel to display the temperatures, etc.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 2#
>>>>> Then I needed an app to monitor my Epson Stylus Photo 890 printers
>>>>> ink cartridges, do head cleaning; etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> In Windows I use SSC Service Utility.
>>>>> http://www.ssclg.com/epsone.shtml
>>>>> (another free ware app that I have been using for years from Win95
>>>>> to Win XP Pro)
>>>>> Again all it takes is download the install exe, run it, then run
>>>>> the programme, it detects the printer and displays the ink
>>>>> cartridge levels.
>>>>> That's it.
>>>>>
>>>>> In Ubuntu the closest app I have found is MTInk
>>>>> Help/Install instructions are here:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-28175.html
>>>>>
>>>>> But I had to use the terminal editor to give myself permission to
>>>>> use mtink, set up an lp group and make myself part of that group,
>>>>> and edit the printer usb connection so mtink could see it.
>>>>>
>>>>> But I got it working eventually...
>>>>>
>>>>> I can see now why Linux users talk up being able to use the
>>>>> 'command line' so much.
>>>>> Quite often it's the only way you can get anything to work...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Its costing you a fortune !!
>>>> Your time is obviously worth nothing
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> You may be joking (or perhaps not), but that is why the TCO for a
>>> windows environment is frequently lower than an Linux environment.
>>>
>>> If you were starting from a zero base in both cases (both
>>> administration and user side) then probably Linux would win out, but
>>> for most businesses, the TCO of switching to Linux is just far too high.
>>>
>>> Add to that, finding a reliable Linux expert with recognised
>>> qualifications is also both more difficult and more expensive, and
>>> the heterogeneity of Linux environments means that if your tame Linux
>>> support guy leaves or gets uppity, you can have major issues that
>>> just won't be there in windows land where almost any IT company can
>>> walk in and have things working in five minutes.
>>>
>>> Them's the strengths and also the frustrations of Linux-land. We
>>> have such a long way to go ;-(
>>>
>>> Alan.
>>>
>>>
>> You and the article you posted seem to assume that improvements in
>> Linux are made with the objective of capturing Microsoft or Apple
>> customers.
>> Why ?
>>
>
> Well, existing users have either given up, or gotten over the difficulties.
>
> Hence is seems fair to say that the addition of an 'easy to use'
> installer is aimed at new users, and for a new user, each OS is
> implicitly in competition with the others (accepting that may users will
> use two or more OSs and each flavour of Linux is in implicit competition
> with the other flavours).
>

All installers are aimed at new users, Add Applications and Update
Manager or a combination thereof won't make any difference in the
perception that you make a Linux computer by breaking a perfectly
acceptable Windows computer for no good reason and the people that are
likely to try it are the ones who think they are skilled enough to get
their puter back if it all goes pear shaped. They are self selecting,
their decision to use Linux for the first time will be a by product of
their Windows aptitude.

"victor" <> wrote in message
news:h4jul6$evu$...
> Alan wrote:
>> "victor" <> wrote in message
>> news:h4jn1b$i37$...
>>> Alan wrote:
>>>> "victor" <> wrote in message
>>>> news:h4jla3$c0n$...
>>>>> Max Burke wrote:
>>>>>> Alan wrote:
>>>>>>> http://blogs.computerworld.com/node/14432/print
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "There's really nothing that hard about installing programs on
>>>>>>> Linux. Anyone who still uses shell commands like say, "apt-get
>>>>>>> install some-program-or-the-other," is doing so because they
>>>>>>> want to do it that way, not because they have to. Programs
>>>>>>> like Debian and Ubuntu's Synaptic, Fedora's yum or openSUSE's
>>>>>>> YaST makes installing programs little more than a matter of
>>>>>>> point and click. Still, some people have trouble, so Ubuntu is
>>>>>>> reviving a dusty, old project, AppCenter so that anyone can
>>>>>>> install Linux programs."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If they pull this off, Linux on the desktop might actually get
>>>>>>> some traction beyond the LiNerds that shout and scream about
>>>>>>> how easy it is to use, while being derogatory to the 'mere
>>>>>>> mortals' that give it a go, get stuck, and end up asking for
>>>>>>> help starting from what they already know (Windows generally).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If application installation in Ubuntu becomes as easy as it is
>>>>>>> in Windows, then Apple could be locked into their current
>>>>>>> position of being a provincial player, and finally it will
>>>>>>> provide some much needed competition to Windows.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Still got a long way to go to be as easy to use as Windows;
>>>>>> Microsoft and time aint going to wait around for Linux/Ubuntu
>>>>>> to catch up...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My experience so far using Ubuntu is that you can find apps
>>>>>> that will match those you/I use in Windows (to a certain
>>>>>> extent) but they're no where near as easy to install and get
>>>>>> working as the equivalent Windows ones are.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Two examples:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1#
>>>>>> In Windows I use SpeedFan
>>>>>> (http://www.almico.com/sfdownload.php)
>>>>>> as a temperature/voltage/fan system monitor.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> All that is required to install it is to download the EXE
>>>>>> install file, run the install file, and then it just does what
>>>>>> it says it does.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To do the [near] equivalent in Ubuntu I found Gnome Sensors
>>>>>> Applet:
>>>>>> Have a read of what has to be done to get this app to work..
>>>>>>
>>>>>> First I had to follow the instructions here, to get the sensors
>>>>>> installed and working.
>>>>>> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2780
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Then I had to follow the instructions here to get them
>>>>>> monitoring what I wanted them to monitor:
>>>>>> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=92504
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Finally I had to add then to a panel to display the
>>>>>> temperatures, etc.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2#
>>>>>> Then I needed an app to monitor my Epson Stylus Photo 890
>>>>>> printers ink cartridges, do head cleaning; etc.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In Windows I use SSC Service Utility.
>>>>>> http://www.ssclg.com/epsone.shtml
>>>>>> (another free ware app that I have been using for years from
>>>>>> Win95 to Win XP Pro)
>>>>>> Again all it takes is download the install exe, run it, then
>>>>>> run the programme, it detects the printer and displays the ink
>>>>>> cartridge levels.
>>>>>> That's it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In Ubuntu the closest app I have found is MTInk
>>>>>> Help/Install instructions are here:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-28175.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But I had to use the terminal editor to give myself permission
>>>>>> to use mtink, set up an lp group and make myself part of that
>>>>>> group, and edit the printer usb connection so mtink could see
>>>>>> it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But I got it working eventually...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I can see now why Linux users talk up being able to use the
>>>>>> 'command line' so much.
>>>>>> Quite often it's the only way you can get anything to work...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> Its costing you a fortune !!
>>>>> Your time is obviously worth nothing
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You may be joking (or perhaps not), but that is why the TCO for a
>>>> windows environment is frequently lower than an Linux
>>>> environment.
>>>>
>>>> If you were starting from a zero base in both cases (both
>>>> administration and user side) then probably Linux would win out,
>>>> but for most businesses, the TCO of switching to Linux is just
>>>> far too high.
>>>>
>>>> Add to that, finding a reliable Linux expert with recognised
>>>> qualifications is also both more difficult and more expensive,
>>>> and the heterogeneity of Linux environments means that if your
>>>> tame Linux support guy leaves or gets uppity, you can have major
>>>> issues that just won't be there in windows land where almost any
>>>> IT company can walk in and have things working in five minutes.
>>>>
>>>> Them's the strengths and also the frustrations of Linux-land. We
>>>> have such a long way to go ;-(
>>>>
>>>> Alan.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> You and the article you posted seem to assume that improvements in
>>> Linux are made with the objective of capturing Microsoft or Apple
>>> customers.
>>> Why ?
>>>
>>
>> Well, existing users have either given up, or gotten over the
>> difficulties.
>>
>> Hence is seems fair to say that the addition of an 'easy to use'
>> installer is aimed at new users, and for a new user, each OS is
>> implicitly in competition with the others (accepting that may users
>> will use two or more OSs and each flavour of Linux is in implicit
>> competition with the other flavours).
>>
>
> All installers are aimed at new users, Add Applications and Update
> Manager or a combination thereof won't make any difference in the
> perception that you make a Linux computer by breaking a perfectly
> acceptable Windows computer for no good reason and the people that
> are likely to try it are the ones who think they are skilled enough
> to get their puter back if it all goes pear shaped. They are self
> selecting, their decision to use Linux for the first time will be a
> by product of their Windows aptitude.
>

Well reasoned.

Not sure it is the _whole_ story, but I do agree to a large degree.

Alan.

--

The views expressed are my own, not those of my employer or others.
My unmunged email is: (valid for 30 days
min probably much longer).