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Hi:

I have a question just out of curiosity.

I notice with ZIP discs and floppies, the disc is a soft dark-brown
round film-like material that can easily be shredded -- with paper-
shredder -- to remove confidential information.

However, the magnetic platters in HDDs are much harder and metallic.

Why don't they make the hard-disc-drive platters soft like the discs
of floppies and ZIPs? It would be so much easier to remove unwanted
confidential information then. Simply unscrew the HDD, remove the soft
platters and dump them into a paper-shreder.

To remove personal info from an HDD requires that the platters be
heated beyond Curie point to eliminate all magnetic data. This is
extremely inconvenient and dangerous because of the high temperatures
required.


Thanks a bunch,

Green

GreenXenon <> wrote in
news:c0bcb426-9857-426b-80bd-:

> Hi:
>
> I have a question just out of curiosity.
>
> I notice with ZIP discs and floppies, the disc is a soft dark-brown
> round film-like material that can easily be shredded -- with paper-
> shredder -- to remove confidential information.
>
> However, the magnetic platters in HDDs are much harder and metallic.
>
> Why don't they make the hard-disc-drive platters soft like the discs
> of floppies and ZIPs? It would be so much easier to remove unwanted
> confidential information then. Simply unscrew the HDD, remove the soft
> platters and dump them into a paper-shreder.
>
> To remove personal info from an HDD requires that the platters be
> heated beyond Curie point to eliminate all magnetic data. This is
> extremely inconvenient and dangerous because of the high temperatures
> required.
>
Several reasons: 1. Rotation speed. Hard drives spin at several thousand
RPM (7,000-10,000), Floppies at under 500. You can actually tell by their
sound when a revolution is finished - less than a second, but definitely
discernable. 2. Head gap. Floppy disk heads sit on the order of 1 mm from
the surface of the disk and frequently make contact with it. Hard drive
heads float less than 10 millionths of an inch over the surface and due to
the speed involved will destroy the surface if they contact it. However if
you have to do more than a full format, that's only the start of your
security concerns IMHO.

--
(setq (chuck nil) car(chuck) )

Because if they made "hard" drives floppy like you want they couldn't
call them HARD drives dimwit!


"GreenXenon" <> wrote in message
news:c0bcb426-9857-426b-80bd-...
> Hi:
>
> I have a question just out of curiosity.
>
> I notice with ZIP discs and floppies, the disc is a soft dark-brown
> round film-like material that can easily be shredded -- with paper-
> shredder -- to remove confidential information.
>
> However, the magnetic platters in HDDs are much harder and metallic.
>
> Why don't they make the hard-disc-drive platters soft like the discs
> of floppies and ZIPs? It would be so much easier to remove unwanted
> confidential information then. Simply unscrew the HDD, remove the soft
> platters and dump them into a paper-shreder.
>
> To remove personal info from an HDD requires that the platters be
> heated beyond Curie point to eliminate all magnetic data. This is
> extremely inconvenient and dangerous because of the high temperatures
> required.
>
>
> Thanks a bunch,
>
> Green

On Jun 19, 1:28 pm, "Stephen" <i.want.s...@spam.com> wrote:
> This is down to several factors.
>
> Typical hard drives are hermetically sealed units which allow the platters
> to spin at a higher RPM than would be the case for Zip or floppy drives.
>
> If the hard disc was "floppy", you will find that it will distort if you
> start spinning it at 5,400rpm (most laptop drives) or ar 7,200rpm (most
> desktop hard drives) or even at 10,000rpm (high performance drives) the
> floppy media would probably tear itself to shreds.
>
> In addition, the gap between the read/write heads and the data surface is
> very tiny, so any accidental bending of the disk surface runs the risk of
> the heads destroying the data surface and making the owner kiss goodbye to
> many Gigs worth of data. Having a hermetically sealed disk means there is no
> issues with dust as there would be on a removable disc.
>
> In addition, if the hard disc surface was to increase in diameter with the
> high rotational speed, the head positioning motors would have to have a
> tracking compensation algorithm so it knew where the data had "moved" to
>
> So thats why hard discs have glass platters with a magnetic coating on it.
>
> zip discs and floppies spin at much lower rpm as the disk is not
> hermetically sealed and to avoid disc distortion that would otherwise occur
> at higher RPM and also are of lower data density compared to todays HDD's og
> 500Gb to 1.5TB so head positioning on zip and floppies os not as critical as
> it would be on a HDD.


Is it possible to hermetically-seal the soft disc of a floppy/zip? Of
course the spin speed would still have to be slow to prevent the soft
material from being injured. Right?

Is it also true that in order to have the same amount of storage
space, that the soft floppy material would need to be bigger in
diameter than the hard platter of an HDD?

IOW, is it possible for a soft floppy disc to have the same data
density as a hard HDD platter?

"GreenXenon" <> wrote in message
news:a4d3abd1-924d-460d-a929-...
> On Jun 19, 1:28 pm, "Stephen" <i.want.s...@spam.com> wrote:
>> This is down to several factors.
>>
>> Typical hard drives are hermetically sealed units which allow the
>> platters
>> to spin at a higher RPM than would be the case for Zip or floppy drives.
>>
>> If the hard disc was "floppy", you will find that it will distort if you
>> start spinning it at 5,400rpm (most laptop drives) or ar 7,200rpm (most
>> desktop hard drives) or even at 10,000rpm (high performance drives) the
>> floppy media would probably tear itself to shreds.
>>
>> In addition, the gap between the read/write heads and the data surface is
>> very tiny, so any accidental bending of the disk surface runs the risk of
>> the heads destroying the data surface and making the owner kiss goodbye
>> to
>> many Gigs worth of data. Having a hermetically sealed disk means there is
>> no
>> issues with dust as there would be on a removable disc.
>>
>> In addition, if the hard disc surface was to increase in diameter with
>> the
>> high rotational speed, the head positioning motors would have to have a
>> tracking compensation algorithm so it knew where the data had "moved" to
>>
>> So thats why hard discs have glass platters with a magnetic coating on
>> it.
>>
>> zip discs and floppies spin at much lower rpm as the disk is not
>> hermetically sealed and to avoid disc distortion that would otherwise
>> occur
>> at higher RPM and also are of lower data density compared to todays HDD's
>> og
>> 500Gb to 1.5TB so head positioning on zip and floppies os not as critical
>> as
>> it would be on a HDD.
>
>
> Is it possible to hermetically-seal the soft disc of a floppy/zip?

Yes, it's possible, but why do it?



Of
> course the spin speed would still have to be slow to prevent the soft
> material from being injured. Right?
>
> Is it also true that in order to have the same amount of storage
> space, that the soft floppy material would need to be bigger in
> diameter than the hard platter of an HDD?
>

Yes. The reason for speed is that the area of a data cluster can be smaller.




> IOW, is it possible for a soft floppy disc to have the same data
> density as a hard HDD platter?

NO, because the floppy spins at a fraction of the speed.

GreenXenon wrote

> I have a question just out of curiosity.

Dont forget what curiosity did to the cat.

> I notice with ZIP discs and floppies, the disc is a soft dark-brown
> round film-like material that can easily be shredded -- with paper-
> shredder -- to remove confidential information.

> However, the magnetic platters in HDDs are much harder and metallic.

> Why don't they make the hard-disc-drive platters soft like the discs of floppies and ZIPs?

Because you get much higher bit densitys with rigid platters
and its completely trivial to wipe them magnetically and you
can reuse the platters when you do that.

> It would be so much easier to remove
> unwanted confidential information then.

Nope.

> Simply unscrew the HDD, remove the soft
> platters and dump them into a paper-shreder.

Much easier to use a decent security wipe like dban.

> To remove personal info from an HDD requires that the platters
> be heated beyond Curie point to eliminate all magnetic data.

Wrong. All you need is a decent security wipe like dban.

> This is extremely inconvenient and dangerous because of the high temperatures required.

Nothing dangerous about a properly designed furnace.

And shredded floppys have actually been recovered.

Stephen wrote:

> This is down to several factors.

> Typical hard drives are hermetically sealed units

No they arent. They always have a filtered vent that allows pressure equalisation.

> which allow the platters to spin at a higher RPM than would be the case for Zip or floppy drives.

It isnt the spin rate that allows the much higher bit density.

> If the hard disc was "floppy", you will find that it will distort if
> you start spinning it at 5,400rpm (most laptop drives) or ar 7,200rpm
> (most desktop hard drives) or even at 10,000rpm (high performance
> drives) the floppy media would probably tear itself to shreds.

> In addition, the gap between the read/write heads and the data
> surface is very tiny, so any accidental bending of the disk surface
> runs the risk of the heads destroying the data surface

In fact hard drive heads fly. Floppy drives heads dont.

> and making the owner kiss goodbye to many Gigs worth of data. Having a hermetically sealed disk means there is no
> issues with dust as there would be on a removable disc.

> In addition, if the hard disc surface was to increase in diameter
> with the high rotational speed, the head positioning motors would have to have a tracking compensation algorithm so it
> knew where the data had "moved" to

Nope, modern hard drives have embedded servo info that handles that
fine as the platter expand and contract due to changing temperatue.

> So thats why hard discs have glass platters with a magnetic coating on it.

They arent all glass.

> zip discs and floppies spin at much lower rpm as the disk is not
> hermetically sealed and to avoid disc distortion that would otherwise
> occur at higher RPM and also are of lower data density compared to todays HDD's og 500Gb to 1.5TB so head positioning
> on zip and floppies os not as critical as it would be on a HDD.

In fact the real reason is just the much higher bit densitys possible with rigid platters.


> GreenXenon <> wrote

>> I have a question just out of curiosity.
>>
>> I notice with ZIP discs and floppies, the disc is a soft dark-brown
>> round film-like material that can easily be shredded -- with paper-
>> shredder -- to remove confidential information.
>>
>> However, the magnetic platters in HDDs are much harder and metallic.
>>
>> Why don't they make the hard-disc-drive platters soft like the discs
>> of floppies and ZIPs? It would be so much easier to remove unwanted
>> confidential information then. Simply unscrew the HDD, remove the
>> soft platters and dump them into a paper-shreder.
>>
>> To remove personal info from an HDD requires that the platters be
>> heated beyond Curie point to eliminate all magnetic data. This is
>> extremely inconvenient and dangerous because of the high temperatures
>> required.
>>
>>
>> Thanks a bunch,
>>
>> Green

chuckcar wrote:
> GreenXenon <> wrote in
> news:c0bcb426-9857-426b-80bd-:
>
>> Hi:
>>
>> I have a question just out of curiosity.
>>
>> I notice with ZIP discs and floppies, the disc is a soft dark-brown
>> round film-like material that can easily be shredded -- with paper-
>> shredder -- to remove confidential information.
>>
>> However, the magnetic platters in HDDs are much harder and metallic.
>>
>> Why don't they make the hard-disc-drive platters soft like the discs
>> of floppies and ZIPs? It would be so much easier to remove unwanted
>> confidential information then. Simply unscrew the HDD, remove the
>> soft platters and dump them into a paper-shreder.
>>
>> To remove personal info from an HDD requires that the platters be
>> heated beyond Curie point to eliminate all magnetic data. This is
>> extremely inconvenient and dangerous because of the high temperatures
>> required.
>>
> Several reasons: 1. Rotation speed. Hard drives spin at several
> thousand RPM (7,000-10,000), Floppies at under 500. You can actually
> tell by their sound when a revolution is finished - less than a
> second, but definitely discernable. 2. Head gap. Floppy disk heads
> sit on the order of 1 mm from the surface of the disk and frequently
> make contact with it.

In fact they always make contact and dont fly like a hard drive head does.

> Hard drive heads float less than 10 millionths
> of an inch over the surface and due to the speed involved will
> destroy the surface if they contact it. However if you have to do
> more than a full format, that's only the start of your security
> concerns IMHO.

GreenXenon wrote:
> On Jun 19, 1:28 pm, "Stephen" <i.want.s...@spam.com> wrote:
>> This is down to several factors.
>>
>> Typical hard drives are hermetically sealed units which allow the
>> platters to spin at a higher RPM than would be the case for Zip or
>> floppy drives.
>>
>> If the hard disc was "floppy", you will find that it will distort if
>> you start spinning it at 5,400rpm (most laptop drives) or ar
>> 7,200rpm (most desktop hard drives) or even at 10,000rpm (high
>> performance drives) the floppy media would probably tear itself to
>> shreds.
>>
>> In addition, the gap between the read/write heads and the data
>> surface is very tiny, so any accidental bending of the disk surface
>> runs the risk of the heads destroying the data surface and making
>> the owner kiss goodbye to many Gigs worth of data. Having a
>> hermetically sealed disk means there is no issues with dust as there
>> would be on a removable disc.
>>
>> In addition, if the hard disc surface was to increase in diameter
>> with the high rotational speed, the head positioning motors would
>> have to have a tracking compensation algorithm so it knew where the
>> data had "moved" to
>>
>> So thats why hard discs have glass platters with a magnetic coating
>> on it.
>>
>> zip discs and floppies spin at much lower rpm as the disk is not
>> hermetically sealed and to avoid disc distortion that would
>> otherwise occur at higher RPM and also are of lower data density
>> compared to todays HDD's og 500Gb to 1.5TB so head positioning on
>> zip and floppies os not as critical as it would be on a HDD.

> Is it possible to hermetically-seal the soft disc of a floppy/zip?

Yes, and hard drives arent in fact hermetically sealed anyway.

> Of course the spin speed would still have to be slow
> to prevent the soft material from being injured. Right?

Nope. It would be possible to make flexible
material that could be spun at those speeds.

> Is it also true that in order to have the same amount of storage
> space, that the soft floppy material would need to be bigger in
> diameter than the hard platter of an HDD?

Thats true in the sense that the bit densitys are much higher with rigid platters.

> IOW, is it possible for a soft floppy disc to have
> the same data density as a hard HDD platter?

Nope.

And its all completely pointless anyway when its so completely trivial to
use a decent security wipe like dban that completely wipes rigid platters.

The only thing it cant wipe is spared sectors.

On Jun 19, 8:42*pm, GreenXenon <glucege...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi:
>
> I have a question just out of curiosity.
>
> I notice with ZIP discs and floppies, the disc is a soft dark-brown
> round film-like material that can easily be shredded -- with paper-
> shredder -- to remove confidential information.
>
> However, the magnetic platters in HDDs are much harder and metallic.
>
> Why don't they make the hard-disc-drive platters soft like the discs
> of floppies and ZIPs? It would be so much easier to remove unwanted
> confidential information then. Simply unscrew the HDD, remove the soft
> platters and dump them into a paper-shreder.
>
> To remove personal info from an HDD requires that the platters be
> heated beyond Curie point to eliminate all magnetic data. This is
> extremely inconvenient and dangerous because of the high temperatures
> required.
>
> Thanks a bunch,
>
> Green

Hey, GreenGlow, did you ever get answers to these questions yet?
What is Sphygmo-thermic dissociation?
When a neuron is stimulated, it depolarizes. When relaxed, it
hyperpolarizes?
They chased you from comp.dsp, sci.physics & sci.med.cardiology for
being a troll.
Grow up.....if you are ALLOWED, that is????