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persistent composites

 
 
Paul Rubin
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      06-15-2009
Aaron Brady <(E-Mail Removed)> writes:
> > A real-world application of persistent data structures can be found here:
> > http://stevekrenzel.com/persistent-list

>
> Jaime, thanks for the link. I contacted its author.


You might also look at www.couchdb.org .
 
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Aaron Brady
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      06-15-2009
On Jun 15, 11:10*am, Paul Rubin <http://(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> Aaron Brady <(E-Mail Removed)> writes:
> > > A real-world application of persistent data structures can be found here:
> > >http://stevekrenzel.com/persistent-list

>
> > Jaime, thanks for the link. *I contacted its author.

>
> You might also look atwww.couchdb.org.


I'm not much for the interface. But the back end might match what I'm
doing.
 
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Aaron Brady
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      06-16-2009
On Jun 15, 4:56*pm, Aaron Brady <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> On Jun 15, 11:10*am, Paul Rubin <http://(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
> > Aaron Brady <(E-Mail Removed)> writes:
> > > > A real-world application of persistent data structures can be found here:
> > > >http://stevekrenzel.com/persistent-list

>
> > > Jaime, thanks for the link. *I contacted its author.

>
> > You might also look atwww.couchdb.org.

>
> I'm not much for the interface. *But the back end might match what I'm
> doing.


Making the charitable interpretation that this was the extent of c-l-
py's support and enthusiasm for my idea, I will now go into mourning.
Death occurred at oh-eight-hundred. Rest in peace, support &
enthusiasm.
 
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Mike Kazantsev
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      06-16-2009
On Tue, 16 Jun 2009 06:57:13 -0700 (PDT)
Aaron Brady <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> Making the charitable interpretation that this was the extent of c-l-
> py's support and enthusiasm for my idea, I will now go into mourning.
> Death occurred at oh-eight-hundred. Rest in peace, support &
> enthusiasm.


I've read this thread from the beginning, being tempted to insert
remarks about shelve module or ORMs like SQLAlchemy, but that'd be
meaningless without the problem description, which I haven't seen
anywhere. Is it some trick idea like "let's walk on our heads"?

--
Mike Kazantsev // fraggod.net

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Aaron Brady
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      06-17-2009
On Jun 16, 10:09*am, Mike Kazantsev <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Jun 2009 06:57:13 -0700 (PDT)
>
> Aaron Brady <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> > Making the charitable interpretation that this was the extent of c-l-
> > py's support and enthusiasm for my idea, I will now go into mourning.
> > Death occurred at oh-eight-hundred. *Rest in peace, support &
> > enthusiasm.

>
> I've read this thread from the beginning, being tempted to insert
> remarks about shelve module or ORMs like SQLAlchemy, but that'd be
> meaningless without the problem description, which I haven't seen
> anywhere. Is it some trick idea like "let's walk on our heads"?


More like bronze them, or hang them on a tackboard. You haven't
convinced me that it's not a problem, or that it's an easy one.
 
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Rhodri James
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      06-17-2009
On Wed, 17 Jun 2009 16:06:22 +0100, Aaron Brady <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

> On Jun 16, 10:09*am, Mike Kazantsev <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>> On Tue, 16 Jun 2009 06:57:13 -0700 (PDT)
>>
>> Aaron Brady <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>> > Making the charitable interpretation that this was the extent of c-l-
>> > py's support and enthusiasm for my idea, I will now go into mourning.
>> > Death occurred at oh-eight-hundred. *Rest in peace, support &
>> > enthusiasm.

>>
>> I've read this thread from the beginning, being tempted to insert
>> remarks about shelve module or ORMs like SQLAlchemy, but that'd be
>> meaningless without the problem description, which I haven't seen
>> anywhere. Is it some trick idea like "let's walk on our heads"?

>
> More like bronze them, or hang them on a tackboard. You haven't
> convinced me that it's not a problem, or that it's an easy one.


Unfortunately it's up to you to demonstrate that it is a problem,
whichever of the many possible 'it's you're talking about. So far,
the question "Why would I want to use this? What's the use case?"
has gone unanswered, and I'm sure I'm not the only baffled by it.

--
Rhodri James *-* Wildebeest Herder to the Masses
 
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Aaron Brady
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      06-19-2009
On Jun 17, 3:53*pm, "Rhodri James" <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:
> On Wed, 17 Jun 2009 16:06:22 +0100, Aaron Brady <(E-Mail Removed)> *
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jun 16, 10:09*am, Mike Kazantsev <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> >> On Tue, 16 Jun 2009 06:57:13 -0700 (PDT)

>
> >> Aaron Brady <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> >> > Making the charitable interpretation that this was the extent of c-l-
> >> > py's support and enthusiasm for my idea, I will now go into mourning..
> >> > Death occurred at oh-eight-hundred. *Rest in peace, support &
> >> > enthusiasm.

>
> >> I've read this thread from the beginning, being tempted to insert
> >> remarks about shelve module or ORMs like SQLAlchemy, but that'd be
> >> meaningless without the problem description, which I haven't seen
> >> anywhere. Is it some trick idea like "let's walk on our heads"?

>
> > More like bronze them, or hang them on a tackboard. *You haven't
> > convinced me that it's not a problem, or that it's an easy one.

>
> Unfortunately it's up to you to demonstrate that it is a problem,
> whichever of the many possible 'it's you're talking about. *So far,
> the question "Why would I want to use this? *What's the use case?"
> has gone unanswered, and I'm sure I'm not the only baffled by it.


I can demonstrate it's a problem; many things are.

The subject line says it all. SQL will persist (and share for IPC,
after a fashion) sets of statically typed tuples. But we have need
for sets of dynamically typed tuples, in volatile storage at the very
least, or no one would like Python.

Whether we have need for them in persistent storage remains to be
seen.

POSH Python Object SHaring has been at least one student's graduate
thesis. It couldn't hurt to pursue it if one has time, as with many
things. It's pretty likely my estimates of end user usefulness of
'KeepDB', say, derive sturdily and steadily from our estimated
popularity of Python. So much for my motives, though not for my
opportunities.

My implementation has followed two separate paths: one using SQL for a
back-end host; the other using hand-coded bytes on disk, complete with
large file support using views, and on-disk (or in-buffer) memory
management, which incidentally I spoke up about about a year ago. It
was the topic of an honors lecture in the Data Structures course in my
undergrad. For the record, I still can't beat a log-N balanced tree
for finding free nodes, but I am operating on the assumption that the
smallest sufficient region is the best to return from 'alloc'.

You are not being any help, Rhodri, in your question. Its chief
virtue is fidelity of programming, that is, what you write is most
true to what you mean. If you have an object on disk, and want the
third element of its 'coords' list attribute, it's a waste to do
anything other than find its disk address, then the disk address of
its 'coords' attribute, then the disk address of the third element of
that, such as say, loading or worse, processing, the entire structure;
even if, and in light of parallel considerations about economic market
transparency and efficiency, that is to say, economy, maybe /
especially/ if, you are having a lowly machine make do. You don't
want to open every box in your basement to find your tennis racket;
you want to open one box, find the racket in the index, then open all
and only the boxes that 'nestedly' contain the racket. (Yes, that's /
all/ and /only/, or 'if and only if'-- not to be confused with 'one
and only'.)

It's more economic.
 
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Rhodri James
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      06-19-2009
On Fri, 19 Jun 2009 14:24:34 +0100, Aaron Brady <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

> You are not being any help, Rhodri, in your question.


To you, perhaps not. To me, it has at least had the effect of making
what you're trying to do (write a pythonic object database) clearer.

--
Rhodri James *-* Wildebeest Herder to the Masses
 
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Aahz
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      06-19-2009
In article <(E-Mail Removed)>,
Aaron Brady <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>You are not being any help, Rhodri, in your question.


Maybe not, but honestly, you're getting pretty close to going back in my
killfile. Although you're no longer trolling this group, I find your
writing difficult to read at best; answering questions from people like
Rhodri is about your only chance to reach people like me. Even without
the killfile, I'm skipping about 60-80% of your posts. It's a free
Usenet, of course, so you're under no obligation to pay any attention to
me, but I think you ought to consider the merits of changing your
opinion of Rhodri's questions.

Side note: the rhetorical trick of inserting a person's name in a
statement is often intended and received as a mildly patronizing insult.
It's not at all clear to me whether that was your intent; if not, you
might want to change your writing style a bit.
--
Aahz ((E-Mail Removed)) <*> http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"as long as we like the same operating system, things are cool." --piranha
 
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Aaron Brady
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      06-19-2009
On Jun 19, 7:45*am, (E-Mail Removed) (Aahz) wrote:
> In article <(E-Mail Removed)..com>,
> Aaron Brady *<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>
>
> >You are not being any help, Rhodri, in your question. *

>
> Maybe not, but honestly, you're getting pretty close to going back in my
> killfile. *Although you're no longer trolling this group, I find your
> writing difficult to read at best; answering questions from people like
> Rhodri is about your only chance to reach people like me. *Even without
> the killfile, I'm skipping about 60-80% of your posts. *It's a free
> Usenet, of course, so you're under no obligation to pay any attention to
> me, but I think you ought to consider the merits of changing your
> opinion of Rhodri's questions.
>
> Side note: the rhetorical trick of inserting a person's name in a
> statement is often intended and received as a mildly patronizing insult.
> It's not at all clear to me whether that was your intent; if not, you
> might want to change your writing style a bit.
> --
> Aahz ((E-Mail Removed)) * * * * * <*> * * * *http://www.pythoncraft.com/
>
> "as long as we like the same operating system, things are cool." --piranha


> Side note: the rhetorical trick of inserting a person's name in a


This is a welcome digression for me. I wasn't sure that my idea was
being taken seriously. On a temperature scale from freezing to
boiling, I took Rhodri's message to be somewhere in the single
digits-- quite chilly. Maybe if it hadn't made me feel so defensive,
I could've just said so. But, judging from his reply, he got the
message. </killfile bait>

> I find your
> writing difficult to read at best;

....
> I'm skipping about 60-80% of your posts.


My loss.



 
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