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Defragger (and other) Over head

 
 
BP
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Posts: n/a
 
      06-01-2009

Within the past week or so I installed SP2 on my 64-bit Vista Home Premium
system. At the time I had approximately 550 gigs free space on my hard
drive. Since then I've read email and have probably had some MS updates.
I've also defragged using JKDefrag. I now have 494 gigs of free space on
the drive, with the biggest hit occurring after the defragging. I've
noticed reduced free space with other defraggers, and it has been months
since I last defragged, but the hit was BIG. Where does the free space go?
I figure that Windows must eat up some but so much????

Any ideas on what is happening, or even any idea which might be the best
forum to ask my question on?
 
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Carlos
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      06-01-2009
Start, All Programs, Accessories, System Tools.
Run disk cleanup (or whatever it is translated into English).
That should release valuable disk real state.
Also the accumulation of restore points might be taking a toll on the
available space.
Carlos

"BP" wrote:

>
> Within the past week or so I installed SP2 on my 64-bit Vista Home Premium
> system. At the time I had approximately 550 gigs free space on my hard
> drive. Since then I've read email and have probably had some MS updates.
> I've also defragged using JKDefrag. I now have 494 gigs of free space on
> the drive, with the biggest hit occurring after the defragging. I've
> noticed reduced free space with other defraggers, and it has been months
> since I last defragged, but the hit was BIG. Where does the free space go?
> I figure that Windows must eat up some but so much????
>
> Any ideas on what is happening, or even any idea which might be the best
> forum to ask my question on?
>

 
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BP
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Posts: n/a
 
      06-01-2009

Thanks Carlos. I've tried the Disk Cleanup - there's maybe 3 gigs with
hibernation related files. I'm not sure what they do, but it's a small (by
today's standards) and the space isn't needed so I don't worry about it.
I can see the restore points eating disk space, but I haven't installed
anything lately and I noticed the big hit , maybe 20 to 30 gigs, after
defragging. It's as if the files are defragged, but a lot of unused space
is left behind.


On Sun, 31 May 2009 20:45:01 -0700, Carlos wrote:

> Start, All Programs, Accessories, System Tools.
> Run disk cleanup (or whatever it is translated into English).
> That should release valuable disk real state.
> Also the accumulation of restore points might be taking a toll on the
> available space.
> Carlos
>
> "BP" wrote:
>
>>
>> Within the past week or so I installed SP2 on my 64-bit Vista Home Premium
>> system. At the time I had approximately 550 gigs free space on my hard
>> drive. Since then I've read email and have probably had some MS updates.
>> I've also defragged using JKDefrag. I now have 494 gigs of free space on
>> the drive, with the biggest hit occurring after the defragging. I've
>> noticed reduced free space with other defraggers, and it has been months
>> since I last defragged, but the hit was BIG. Where does the free space go?
>> I figure that Windows must eat up some but so much????
>>
>> Any ideas on what is happening, or even any idea which might be the best
>> forum to ask my question on?
>>

 
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Dominic Payer
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Posts: n/a
 
      06-01-2009
If you are sure SP2 is causing no problems, see
http://www.mydigitallife.info/2008/1...-backup-files/
and you can remove the backup the SP2 install created. Once you do this
you cannot uninstall SP2.

As Carlos says, system restore points use a lot of space. They can be
removed in the More options tab in Disk cleanup. Once removed, you
cannot use System Restore if you have a problem. A restore point is
created each time you boot, not just when you install new items.

Disk cleanup only removes files that are over a week old. If you have
had any application crashes they may have left temporary files which are
not yet due for cleanup or are in locations which Disk cleanup does not
control.

You can view and manually remove temporary files from
C:\Users\<username>\AppData\Local\Temp.



On 01/06/2009 04:57, BP wrote:
> Thanks Carlos. I've tried the Disk Cleanup - there's maybe 3 gigs with
> hibernation related files. I'm not sure what they do, but it's a small (by
> today's standards) and the space isn't needed so I don't worry about it.
> I can see the restore points eating disk space, but I haven't installed
> anything lately and I noticed the big hit , maybe 20 to 30 gigs, after
> defragging. It's as if the files are defragged, but a lot of unused space
> is left behind.
>
>
> On Sun, 31 May 2009 20:45:01 -0700, Carlos wrote:
>
>> Start, All Programs, Accessories, System Tools.
>> Run disk cleanup (or whatever it is translated into English).
>> That should release valuable disk real state.
>> Also the accumulation of restore points might be taking a toll on the
>> available space.
>> Carlos
>>
>> "BP" wrote:
>>
>>> Within the past week or so I installed SP2 on my 64-bit Vista Home Premium
>>> system. At the time I had approximately 550 gigs free space on my hard
>>> drive. Since then I've read email and have probably had some MS updates.
>>> I've also defragged using JKDefrag. I now have 494 gigs of free space on
>>> the drive, with the biggest hit occurring after the defragging. I've
>>> noticed reduced free space with other defraggers, and it has been months
>>> since I last defragged, but the hit was BIG. Where does the free space go?
>>> I figure that Windows must eat up some but so much????
>>>
>>> Any ideas on what is happening, or even any idea which might be the best
>>> forum to ask my question on?
>>>

 
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Tony Sperling
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      06-01-2009
I have never experienced 'defragging' eating up free space. One possible
cause to this symptom [might] be small RAM size that could make your page
file expand - this expansion will later be left behind.

Reasonable amount of RAM, reasonable Page File (Fixed) size, and not less
than some 20% free space on the HD(s) should keep this from ever happening.


Tony. . .


 
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Carlos
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      06-01-2009
Dominic,
My favorite shortcut for the temp dir is
Win Key + R, %temp% <ENTER>
Carlos

"Dominic Payer" wrote:

> If you are sure SP2 is causing no problems, see
> http://www.mydigitallife.info/2008/1...-backup-files/
> and you can remove the backup the SP2 install created. Once you do this
> you cannot uninstall SP2.
>
> As Carlos says, system restore points use a lot of space. They can be
> removed in the More options tab in Disk cleanup. Once removed, you
> cannot use System Restore if you have a problem. A restore point is
> created each time you boot, not just when you install new items.
>
> Disk cleanup only removes files that are over a week old. If you have
> had any application crashes they may have left temporary files which are
> not yet due for cleanup or are in locations which Disk cleanup does not
> control.
>
> You can view and manually remove temporary files from
> C:\Users\<username>\AppData\Local\Temp.
>
>
>
> On 01/06/2009 04:57, BP wrote:
> > Thanks Carlos. I've tried the Disk Cleanup - there's maybe 3 gigs with
> > hibernation related files. I'm not sure what they do, but it's a small (by
> > today's standards) and the space isn't needed so I don't worry about it.
> > I can see the restore points eating disk space, but I haven't installed
> > anything lately and I noticed the big hit , maybe 20 to 30 gigs, after
> > defragging. It's as if the files are defragged, but a lot of unused space
> > is left behind.
> >
> >
> > On Sun, 31 May 2009 20:45:01 -0700, Carlos wrote:
> >
> >> Start, All Programs, Accessories, System Tools.
> >> Run disk cleanup (or whatever it is translated into English).
> >> That should release valuable disk real state.
> >> Also the accumulation of restore points might be taking a toll on the
> >> available space.
> >> Carlos
> >>
> >> "BP" wrote:
> >>
> >>> Within the past week or so I installed SP2 on my 64-bit Vista Home Premium
> >>> system. At the time I had approximately 550 gigs free space on my hard
> >>> drive. Since then I've read email and have probably had some MS updates.
> >>> I've also defragged using JKDefrag. I now have 494 gigs of free space on
> >>> the drive, with the biggest hit occurring after the defragging. I've
> >>> noticed reduced free space with other defraggers, and it has been months
> >>> since I last defragged, but the hit was BIG. Where does the free space go?
> >>> I figure that Windows must eat up some but so much????
> >>>
> >>> Any ideas on what is happening, or even any idea which might be the best
> >>> forum to ask my question on?
> >>>

>

 
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BP
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      06-03-2009

On Mon, 1 Jun 2009 10:48:14 +0200, Tony Sperling wrote:

> I have never experienced 'defragging' eating up free space. One possible
> cause to this symptom [might] be small RAM size that could make your page
> file expand - this expansion will later be left behind.
>
> Reasonable amount of RAM, reasonable Page File (Fixed) size, and not less
> than some 20% free space on the HD(s) should keep this from ever happening.
>
>
> Tony. . .


Thanks for the information. It's a puzzle. I have 4 gigs of RAM, which
ought to be enough (The "gauge" in the Vista Side bar has never gone over
60% Ram use)and, even with the disappearing Drive Space I have 480 gigs
free. Oh, well. Maybe there are mysteries we aren't supposed to solve.
 
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Tony Sperling
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      06-03-2009
You are probably mostly right - putting my own historical use-pattern to
some criticism, a computer tends to be a creativity generator for many
people and the creativity generated will often outsmart us at some point.
Vista has built-in auto defragging - I see that you have used some 3:rd
party defragger to compare your results. If the JKDefrag (which I do not
know anything about) was run while Vistas auto-defragging was active the two
may interfere with each other.

The O/S nowadays is built around internal systems that we may not know how
they will respond to 'fiddling'. This means that in all normal situations it
may be far better to leave things like memory handling and page files and
defragging strictly alone. Using this as a basic setup I have tried running
a smooth and lean machine, the result being that my systems are generally
friendly and is serving me quite few surprises.

I would never recommend anyone not to experiment - experiments are a great
way to learning, but as technology advances it is getting increasingly
dangerous to accumulate series of experiments without being able to
back-trace every single step. Loosing your way can mean sleepless nights.

Personally, I might have tried having your machine set up using the
auto-defragging and un-installing any third-party stuff and then leaving it
alone for some two weeks. Also, make sure Windows is set up to handle the
Virtual Memory as it expects it, with it's default Page File size and then
leave that alone for a while. See if it helps, if it doesn't, make sure you
remove any downloaded and installed programs that you don't use. It's
surprising how often stuff like that can disturb an otherwise healthy
system. Just don't panic - set it up defensively and let it have it's way,
then you can make your research and start tweaking if you feel you have to.
Never tweak a system that isn't perfectly healthy.

I have no way of knowing if this applies to you at all, it will apply to
someone else. Your story indicates you have an able system there, the
strange behaviour, though, could easily be signs of over-experimentation.


Tony. . .





"BP" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:h04qjv$2ha$(E-Mail Removed)-september.org...
>
> On Mon, 1 Jun 2009 10:48:14 +0200, Tony Sperling wrote:
>
>> I have never experienced 'defragging' eating up free space. One possible
>> cause to this symptom [might] be small RAM size that could make your page
>> file expand - this expansion will later be left behind.
>>
>> Reasonable amount of RAM, reasonable Page File (Fixed) size, and not less
>> than some 20% free space on the HD(s) should keep this from ever
>> happening.
>>
>>
>> Tony. . .

>
> Thanks for the information. It's a puzzle. I have 4 gigs of RAM, which
> ought to be enough (The "gauge" in the Vista Side bar has never gone over
> 60% Ram use)and, even with the disappearing Drive Space I have 480 gigs
> free. Oh, well. Maybe there are mysteries we aren't supposed to solve.





 
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Tony Sperling
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      06-03-2009
You are probably mostly right - putting my own historical use-pattern to
some criticism, a computer tends to be a creativity generator for many
people and the creativity generated will often outsmart us at some point.
Vista has built-in auto defragging - I see that you have used some 3:rd
party defragger to compare your results. If the JKDefrag (which I do not
know anything about) was run while Vistas auto-defragging was active the two
may interfere with each other.

The O/S nowadays is built around internal systems that we may not know how
they will respond to 'fiddling'. This means that in all normal situations it
may be far better to leave things like memory handling and page files and
defragging strictly alone. Using this as a basic setup I have tried running
a smooth and lean machine, the result being that my systems are generally
friendly and is serving me quite few surprises.

I would never recommend anyone not to experiment - experiments are a great
way to learning, but as technology advances it is getting increasingly
dangerous to accumulate series of experiments without being able to
back-trace every single step. Loosing your way can mean sleepless nights.

Personally, I might have tried having your machine set up using the
auto-defragging and un-installing any third-party stuff and then leaving it
alone for some two weeks. Also, make sure Windows is set up to handle the
Virtual Memory as it expects it, with it's default Page File size and then
leave that alone for a while. See if it helps, if it doesn't, make sure you
remove any downloaded and installed programs that you don't use. It's
surprising how often stuff like that can disturb an otherwise healthy
system. Just don't panic - set it up defensively and let it have it's way,
then you can make your research and start tweaking if you feel you have to.
Never tweak a system that isn't perfectly healthy.

I have no way of knowing if this applies to you at all, it will apply to
someone else. Your story indicates you have an able system there, the
strange behaviour, though, could easily be signs of over-experimentation.


Tony. . .





"BP" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:h04qjv$2ha$(E-Mail Removed)-september.org...
>
> On Mon, 1 Jun 2009 10:48:14 +0200, Tony Sperling wrote:
>
>> I have never experienced 'defragging' eating up free space. One possible
>> cause to this symptom [might] be small RAM size that could make your page
>> file expand - this expansion will later be left behind.
>>
>> Reasonable amount of RAM, reasonable Page File (Fixed) size, and not less
>> than some 20% free space on the HD(s) should keep this from ever
>> happening.
>>
>>
>> Tony. . .

>
> Thanks for the information. It's a puzzle. I have 4 gigs of RAM, which
> ought to be enough (The "gauge" in the Vista Side bar has never gone over
> 60% Ram use)and, even with the disappearing Drive Space I have 480 gigs
> free. Oh, well. Maybe there are mysteries we aren't supposed to solve.






 
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