Velocity Reviews - Computer Hardware Reviews

Velocity Reviews > Newsgroups > Computing > NZ Computing > Force Cars To Be Open?

Reply
Thread Tools

Force Cars To Be Open?

 
 
Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      05-21-2009
Cars nowadays are full of proprietary diagnostic systems that you need specialized tools to access. Looks like car
makers have been using these as a competitive weapon to shut out dealers and repairers they don’t like. Should
Government step in to legislate against this?

<http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/05/congressmen-want-automakers-to-cough-up-diagnostic-codes.ars>

 
Reply With Quote
 
 
 
 
PeeCee
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      05-21-2009
"Lawrence D'Oliveiro" <(E-Mail Removed)_zealand> wrote in message
news:gv2u34$b9c$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Cars nowadays are full of proprietary diagnostic systems that you need
> specialized tools to access. Looks like car
> makers have been using these as a competitive weapon to shut out dealers
> and repairers they don’t like. Should
> Government step in to legislate against this?
>
> <http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/05/congressmen-want-automakers-to-cough-up-diagnostic-codes.ars>
>




Yes!

An example told to me the other day.

Vehicle Chevrolet Blazer which is a large US style 4 wheel drive.
(actually needed for pulling 4 wheel trailers loaded with timber poles, so
not a poseurs Remuera tractor)

Complaint brakes 'softish'
Mechanics repeatedly bleed the system using all sorts of techniques, put it
down to that's the way they are.
Chance conversation with Ambulance driver who drives an ambulance using the
same Blazer chassis revealed the brakes can only be properly bleed by
plugging in the Chevrolet dealer 'only' computer tool and commanding the ABS
to open all it's valves.

Haven't heard the result as the brakes were due to be done with the
appropriate tool today Friday but it strikes me that this is a real safety
issue.
Nowhere in the manual or on the vehicle does it say this vital safety part
of the vehicle requires a 'proprietry' tool to make them work properly.
The brakes had been worked on by qualified mechanics and brake specialists
because the owner was aware his vehicle fully loaded was quite a potential
disaster if the brakes failed.

By locking the brake maintenance into this 'dealer only' system Chevrolet
are in my opinion exposing the innocent to harm should such a vehicle suffer
a brake failure.



Paul.

 
Reply With Quote
 
 
 
 
Tony in Oz
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      05-22-2009

"PeeCee" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:gv4ltv$jsl$(E-Mail Removed)...
> "Lawrence D'Oliveiro" <(E-Mail Removed)_zealand> wrote in message
> news:gv2u34$b9c$(E-Mail Removed)...
>> Cars nowadays are full of proprietary diagnostic systems that you need
>> specialized tools to access. Looks like car
>> makers have been using these as a competitive weapon to shut out dealers
>> and repairers they don't like. Should
>> Government step in to legislate against this?
>>
>> <http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/05/congressmen-want-automakers-to-cough-up-diagnostic-codes.ars>
>>

>
>
>
> Yes!
>
> An example told to me the other day.
>
> Vehicle Chevrolet Blazer which is a large US style 4 wheel drive.
> (actually needed for pulling 4 wheel trailers loaded with timber poles, so
> not a poseurs Remuera tractor)
>
> Complaint brakes 'softish'
> Mechanics repeatedly bleed the system using all sorts of techniques, put
> it down to that's the way they are.
> Chance conversation with Ambulance driver who drives an ambulance using
> the same Blazer chassis revealed the brakes can only be properly bleed by
> plugging in the Chevrolet dealer 'only' computer tool and commanding the
> ABS to open all it's valves.
>
> Haven't heard the result as the brakes were due to be done with the
> appropriate tool today Friday but it strikes me that this is a real
> safety issue.
> Nowhere in the manual or on the vehicle does it say this vital safety part
> of the vehicle requires a 'proprietry' tool to make them work properly.
> The brakes had been worked on by qualified mechanics and brake specialists
> because the owner was aware his vehicle fully loaded was quite a potential
> disaster if the brakes failed.
>
> By locking the brake maintenance into this 'dealer only' system Chevrolet
> are in my opinion exposing the innocent to harm should such a vehicle
> suffer a brake failure.
>
>
>
> Paul.
>

Agreed. Same goes for any model of car. I object to taking my (e.g)
Commodore to a Holden dealer where they extract my testicles by way of my
wallet because they fired up their Holden Computer to diagnose a problem. In
reality I am paying for their fancy dealership, their fancy waiting room
with the expensive coffee machine and the plush carpet, and the corporate
"technicians" uniforms. I would far rather go to a small, privately owned,
grubby-but-functional workshop, with a mechanic who knows his stuff, and has
a good attitude, where the overheads are not huge, and you can get a good
job done for a reasonable price.


 
Reply With Quote
 
Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      05-22-2009
In message <zfpRl.12657$(E-Mail Removed)>, Tony in Oz
wrote:

> I object to taking my (e.g)
> Commodore to a Holden dealer where they extract my testicles by way of my
> wallet because they fired up their Holden Computer to diagnose a problem.


What if they have a patent on their particular diagnostic systems and
protocols? Do they have a right to restrict access based on patent rights?

 
Reply With Quote
 
Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      05-23-2009
In message <4a173ee5$(E-Mail Removed)>, vitw wrote:

> On Fri, 22 May 2009 17:58:33 +1200, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>
>> What if they have a patent on their particular diagnostic systems and
>> protocols? Do they have a right to restrict access based on patent
>> rights?

>
> Any case where inventions/innovations offer nothing more than an
> anticompetitive weapon is a clear case of market failure.


But a patent is a legal, Government-granted monopoly. That's true of ALL
patents. And monopolies by definition suppress competition, do they not? So
is there such a thing as a patent that is not "an anticompetitive weapon"?

 
Reply With Quote
 
Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      05-23-2009
In message <4a177526$(E-Mail Removed)>, vitw wrote:

> On Sat, 23 May 2009 14:16:02 +1200, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>
>> But a patent is a legal, Government-granted monopoly. That's true of ALL
>> patents. And monopolies by definition suppress competition, do they not?
>> So is there such a thing as a patent that is not "an anticompetitive
>> weapon"?

>
> You've missed the point. The intention of a patent is to encourage people
> to disclose their innovations in return for a limited-time monopoly - in
> the area of innovation.


Is that worth the anticompetitive price being paid?

 
Reply With Quote
 
Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      05-24-2009
In message <4a18b8b7$(E-Mail Removed)>, vitw wrote:

> On Sat, 23 May 2009 16:16:50 +1200, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>
>>> You've missed the point. The intention of a patent is to encourage
>>> people to disclose their innovations in return for a limited-time
>>> monopoly - in the area of innovation.

>>
>> Is that worth the anticompetitive price being paid?

>
> Yes - as long as the term of the patent is realistic.


So it's all right to have an anticompetitive monopoly, so long as it's for a
"realistic" duration? Why is it all right to put up with suboptimal market
conditions for any duration at all?

 
Reply With Quote
 
greg
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      05-24-2009
Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> In message <4a18b8b7$(E-Mail Removed)>, vitw wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 23 May 2009 16:16:50 +1200, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>
>>>> You've missed the point. The intention of a patent is to encourage
>>>> people to disclose their innovations in return for a limited-time
>>>> monopoly - in the area of innovation.
>>> Is that worth the anticompetitive price being paid?

>> Yes - as long as the term of the patent is realistic.

>
> So it's all right to have an anticompetitive monopoly, so long as it's for a
> "realistic" duration? Why is it all right to put up with suboptimal market
> conditions for any duration at all?
>


Yawn.............no one give a toss about anything you post about
anymore flamer......yawn
 
Reply With Quote
 
Richard
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      05-24-2009
Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> Cars nowadays are full of proprietary diagnostic systems that you need specialized tools to access. Looks like car
> makers have been using these as a competitive weapon to shut out dealers and repairers they don’t like. Should
> Government step in to legislate against this?
>
> <http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/05/congressmen-want-automakers-to-cough-up-diagnostic-codes.ars>


No, what they should do is make sure that all advertising is clear in
the message that it requires servicing in this manner, and revoke the
laws that make them have to put this safty crap onto cars in the first
place. Its hard to find a decent car without an airbag even used these
days.
 
Reply With Quote
 
Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      05-24-2009
In message <gvamf1$eh3$(E-Mail Removed)>, Richard wrote:

> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>
>> Cars nowadays are full of proprietary diagnostic systems that you need
>> specialized tools to access. Looks like car makers have been using these
>> as a competitive weapon to shut out dealers and repairers they don’t
>> like. Should Government step in to legislate against this?
>>
>> <http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/n...gressmen-want-

automakers-to-cough-up-diagnostic-codes.ars>
>
> No, what they should do is make sure that all advertising is clear in
> the message that it requires servicing in this manner, and revoke the
> laws that make them have to put this safty crap onto cars in the first
> place.


I don't think the excuse for these proprietary diagnostics has much to do
with safety.

 
Reply With Quote
 
 
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Nike air force one, air force 1, air force one low cut, air force one abdul_razak@indiatimes.com Digital Photography 2 12-31-2008 04:29 PM
Nike Air Force Ones,Air Force One Air Force One-1 lky52193@gmail.com Computer Support 0 01-17-2008 04:40 PM
Nike Air Force Ones,Air Force One Air Force One-1,25th anniversary lky52112@gmail.com Digital Photography 0 01-15-2008 04:46 PM
Nike Air Force Ones,Air Force One Air Force One-1,25th anniversary lky52112@gmail.com Digital Photography 0 01-15-2008 04:34 PM
VPN Encryption Cars and CPU performace Nick Bailey Cisco 7 10-21-2003 07:53 PM



Advertisments