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Need a way to see employeed surfing habits

 
 
+Bob+
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      05-14-2009
On Thu, 14 May 2009 10:14:26 -0400, Leythos <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>In article <(E-Mail Removed)>,
>(E-Mail Removed) says...
>> You can thank me after you've expanded your uneducated brain.
>>

>
>And you continue to show that you don't have real-world experience with
>people or networks.
>
>I've worked in all the areas you mentioned, and in every one of them
>there was/is plenty of creativity and great value from/in employees, not
>one of them has a problem with the filtering and productivity increased
>once implemented - you can't fight numbers.


I can only show you where the light bulb is. If you're not smart
enough to turn it on, then live in the dark with the rest of the
mushrooms and fungus.
 
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Leythos
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      05-14-2009
In article <(E-Mail Removed)>,
http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed) says...
>
> On Thu, 14 May 2009 10:14:26 -0400, Leythos <(E-Mail Removed)>
> wrote:
>
> >In article <(E-Mail Removed)>,
> >(E-Mail Removed) says...
> >> You can thank me after you've expanded your uneducated brain.
> >>

> >
> >And you continue to show that you don't have real-world experience with
> >people or networks.
> >
> >I've worked in all the areas you mentioned, and in every one of them
> >there was/is plenty of creativity and great value from/in employees, not
> >one of them has a problem with the filtering and productivity increased
> >once implemented - you can't fight numbers.

>
> I can only show you where the light bulb is. If you're not smart
> enough to turn it on, then live in the dark with the rest of the
> mushrooms and fungus.


I can see that you've got your mind set and will not change it and are
unwilling to see the real loss a company experiences and the legal
liability for allowing unrestricted internet use for non-business
reasons.

Your constantly resorting to personal attacks indicate that you are not
the type of person that most of us would hire let alone want working
with our teams of highly motivated and highly creative people. I can
only hope that you learn about your illusion before it does you and
others more harm.

--
- Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
- Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling a
drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist"
(E-Mail Removed) (remove 999 for proper email address)
 
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Jon
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      05-14-2009

"Phillip Windell" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Well,...I ain't goin ta Yale, Harvard, or Carnegie. Us simple folk can't
> afford it. Maybe we're a bit lazy too. So why don't you just explain to
> us how we need to deal with these poor opressed employees so we can do it
> right from now on instead of just telling us how ignorant we are and that
> we need to go to some ivy league school (unless you're paying the tuition
> and living expenses of course). We're just employees too ya know,
> oppressed by the TheoryX bosses we work for,...we need your help,...get us
> out of this mess we are in.




Club together with fellow employees and leave a 'Theory X vs Theory Y'
management book on his desk. Or even cheaper still, print off the previously
cited Wikipedia article on the topic

Theory X and Theory Y
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_X_and_theory_Y

Approximate Cost = 3 pieces of A4 paper + a bit of black ink + one staple


--
Jon

Just Say No
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EehZHNvLJuo





 
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+Bob+
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      05-14-2009
On Thu, 14 May 2009 09:21:19 -0500, "Phillip Windell"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Well,...I ain't goin ta Yale, Harvard, or Carnegie. Us simple folk can't
>afford it. Maybe we're a bit lazy too. So why don't you just explain to us
>how we need to deal with these poor opressed employees so we can do it right
>from now on instead of just telling us how ignorant we are and that we need
>to go to some ivy league school (unless you're paying the tuition and living
>expenses of course). We're just employees too ya know, oppressed by the
>TheoryX bosses we work for,...we need your help,...get us out of this mess
>we are in.



You don't need to return to school (although your attitude indicates
that you don't know much about learning or even have the sense to
acknowledge that you might possibly not know everything just based on
your life experiences, so perhaps it would benefit you).

Smart people collapse the time required to succeed by leveraging the
work already done by experts in other areas. All you need to do is to
read some of the reams of material on management science that have
come out of Harvard, Yale, MIT Sloan, Carnigie, Rand, etc over the
last 50 years.

Try going to a Library (it's that big building in the center of town
with all the books in it) and do some reading. Or use that Internet
thing, I hear it's on computer now.



 
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Phillip Windell
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      05-14-2009
"+Bob+" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...

> You don't need to return to school (although your attitude indicates
> that you don't know much about learning or even have the sense to
> acknowledge that you might possibly not know everything just based on
> your life experiences, so perhaps it would benefit you).


Yea, I suppose I should have went more than three semsters of High School
before I dropped out.

> Smart people collapse the time required to succeed by leveraging the
> work already done by experts in other areas. All you need to do is to
> read some of the reams of material on management science that have
> come out of Harvard, Yale, MIT Sloan, Carnigie, Rand, etc over the
> last 50 years.
> Try going to a Library (it's that big building in the center of town
> with all the books in it) and do some reading. Or use that Internet
> thing, I hear it's on computer now.


In our town that central big building's the jail. That's where everyone
around here goes to learn.

You may think I'm jerking you around for fun,..and I kinda am a little
bit,...the first one or two post were annoying, but it's been fun since we
got past those,....but I really did drop out of high school at 16 after 3
sememsters and the buildning in the center of town here really is the
jail,.....and it has more people in it than at the library.

Where I'm from we don't really "look up" to things like Harvard, Yale, MIT
Sloan, Carnigie, Rand,...in fact we kinda look down on them. So if you want
credability,..don't tell 'em you came from there. We respect "self-made"
men that got where they are by their own hard work and skills without some
snooty Ivy League institution telling them what to think and believe.

--
Phillip Windell
www.wandtv.com

The views expressed, are my own and not those of my employer, or Microsoft,
or anyone else associated with me, including my cats.
-----------------------------------------------------


 
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Phillip Windell
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      05-14-2009
"Jon" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...

> Club together with fellow employees


Well that either means conspire together in secret to catch the boss in his
way to his car on some dark night or,...Oh no! Not a labor union!

>and leave a 'Theory X vs Theory Y' management book on his desk. Or even
>cheaper still, print off the previously cited Wikipedia article on the
>topic
>
> Theory X and Theory Y
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_X_and_theory_Y


I've been trying to have a little fun with the thread rather than just
getting ticked off, which was the first reaction in the first couple of
posts. The whole X/Y thing isn't anything new and it isn't leading to any
solutions either. The two sides of the X & Y are just conclusions or
symtoms resulting from two conflicting world views particularly in the area
of anthropology as it pertains to the origin and condition of man.

Now I really did drop out of high school at 16 after 3 sememsters and the
big building in the middle of out town really is the jail, and it really
does have more people in it than the library. But I'm a little bit more
educated than I let on. I hope Bob isn't too disappointed

To get back on topic (if that's possible), how does this apply to IT?

1. Education is ill defined in todays world. I became IT manager of an NBC
Affiliated TV Station after being a truck driver for 10 years without any
college degrees. It was my first IT job and I have lasted for 10 years and
counting which is almost unheard of now-a-days. Then I followed that up
with being the 8th person *worldwide* to be brought into the MVP Program for
MS ISA Server that I retained for three years,...good thing they didn't ask
for my diploma. After three years there were still only about 23 of us
*worldwide*

2. The very fact that the Internet is practically a sewer of Viruses, worms,
trojans, hyjacks, phishing, porn, scams, shams, and few hundred other things
that I can't think of so fast off the top of my head,...and behind every one
of those evil worthless things is a *human* to blame,... who works
*somewhere*,.........indicates that the basic presuppositions of Theory-X
are standing on much more solid ground. And in case anyone wonders what
those presuppositions really are,...here you go,...right from the Wiki link
you gave:

-------------------------------------------------------------
In this theory, which many managers practice, management assumes employees
are inherently lazy and will avoid work if they can. They inherently dislike
work. Because of this, workers need to be closely supervised and
comprehensive systems of controls developed. A hierarchical structure is
needed with narrow span of control at each and every level. According to
this theory, employees will show little ambition without an enticing
incentive program and will avoid responsibility whenever they can. According
to Michael J. Papa, if the organizational goals are to be met, theory X
managers rely heavily on threat and coercion to gain their employee's
compliance. Beliefs of this theory lead to mistrust, highly restrictive
supervision, and a punitive atmosphere. The Theory X manager tends to
believe that everything must end in blaming someone. He or she thinks all
prospective employees are only out for themselves. Usually these managers
feel the sole purpose of the employee's interest in the job is money. They
will blame the person first in most situations, without questioning whether
it may be the system, policy, or lack of training that deserves the blame. A
Theory X manager believes that his or her employees do not really want to
work, that they would rather avoid responsibility and that it is the
manager's job to structure the work and energize the employee. One major
flaw of this management style is it is much more likely to cause
Diseconomies of Scale in large businesses.
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Now,...I think this thread has gone on plenty long enough. It needs to die
off,...and I have grass to mow, cats to feed, and a whole host of other
things that don't require electricity, a PC, or an Ivy League PHD.

C-ya's all tomorrow!


--
Phillip Windell

The views expressed, are my own and not those of my employer, or Microsoft,
or anyone else associated with me, including my cats.
-----------------------------------------------------


 
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Leythos
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      05-15-2009
In article <(E-Mail Removed)>,
(E-Mail Removed) says...
> Smart people collapse the time required to succeed by leveraging the
> work already done by experts in other areas. All you need to do is to
> read some of the reams of material on management science that have
> come out of Harvard, Yale, MIT Sloan, Carnigie, Rand, etc over the
> last 50 years.
>


And you see where that gets a lot of companies - it's strange how you've
been suckered into believing that people were not productive or creative
or motivated before the Internet was common place.

--
- Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
- Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling a
drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist"
(E-Mail Removed) (remove 999 for proper email address)
 
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Bruce Chambers
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      05-16-2009
Leythos wrote:
> In article <(E-Mail Removed)>,
> (E-Mail Removed)3t says...
>> I've a better idea: Try educating yourself by getting a job and seeing
>> how actual employees and managers actually behave, rather than relying
>> on academic theories.
>>

>
> That's what we've been telling you - since most of us travel the country
> working for different companies, we have the experience you are lacking.
>
> Try working for places for a while and then come tell us that none of
> the employees abused company resources. It's simple enough to block
> access and it doesn't take much, and it doesn't impact the honest
> employees, only the bad ones.
>



Er...., Leythos? Did you not see to whom you replied? You're
preaching to the choir.


--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/555375

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. ~Benjamin Franklin

Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. ~Bertrand Russell

The philosopher has never killed any priests, whereas the priest has
killed a great many philosophers.
~ Denis Diderot
 
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Leythos
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      05-16-2009
In article <(E-Mail Removed)>,
(E-Mail Removed)3t says...
>
> Leythos wrote:
> > In article <(E-Mail Removed)>,
> > (E-Mail Removed)3t says...
> >> I've a better idea: Try educating yourself by getting a job and seeing
> >> how actual employees and managers actually behave, rather than relying
> >> on academic theories.
> >>

> >
> > That's what we've been telling you - since most of us travel the country
> > working for different companies, we have the experience you are lacking.
> >
> > Try working for places for a while and then come tell us that none of
> > the employees abused company resources. It's simple enough to block
> > access and it doesn't take much, and it doesn't impact the honest
> > employees, only the bad ones.
> >

>
>
> Er...., Leythos? Did you not see to whom you replied? You're
> preaching to the choir.


Sorry, it's been a long week. I think I meant to reply to another post.

--
- Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
- Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling a
drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist"
(E-Mail Removed) (remove 999 for proper email address)
 
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