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pc starts at 2nd attempt (again!)

 
 
chuckcar
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      05-06-2009
"tomm" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
news:004a536c$0$22166$(E-Mail Removed):

>
> "chuckcar" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:Xns9C02EBE5F8256chucknilcar@127.0.0.1...


>> As a matter of fact he *did* try a different power supply, but never
>> mentioned the power rating of either, making the mention meaningless of
>> course.
>>
>> Message-ID: <00381447$0$21901$(E-Mail Removed)>
>>
>> Is the original post. Curiously with the same exact subject.


> They were both 300w. Both tried with just the cpu & memory connected.
> no, its not the memory either. both sticks tried alone , together and
> in
> different slots.
>

Only 300 watts? I guess they were both working fine, but I believe 450 or
so would be the figure given as adequate.

Besides, you were given the suggestion - more than once if I recall correctly -
to remove all but one stick of RAM, everything from USB/Firewire/PCMCIA, replace
the video card with a low power (straight simple VGA card if available) or
better yet use onboard. Everything else other than the keyboard and mouse should
be removed too.

The point is to show that the computer *can* boot if it has low enough power
consumption. If it does, then the power supply isn't producing enough power for
the hardware that was there. This is a completely different thing than the power
supply having a problem. If the computer *doesn't* boot, then it's down to what
you have left - a stripped down list of possibilities. That's *why* that works.
--
(setq (chuck nil) car(chuck) )
 
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Buffalo
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      05-06-2009


tomm wrote:
>> Buffalo
>> PS: If you ever get it figured out, PLEASE post back!
>>

> yes.. tried 2 different power supplies , 2 different motherboards .
> Stripped the MB down to the bare componants needed to boot up. The
> problem is only there with one of the processors (the slower one) .
> As for the PS needing more power to boot the 1st time , I can turn
> it off and on 10 times and the pc will only boot on
> attempts 2, 4 , 6 , 8 & 10 without fail. Also the time between
> attempts makes no difference. The time between attempts
> 1 & 2 can be 10 seconds or 10 hours.
> The pc runs fine apart from this and I am thinking I am just going
> to have to put up with it.


Now that is interesting about every other time even though the time off is
only a few seconds.
Is your cpu recognized by the BIOS properly during the times when it doesn't
boot, or doesn't it even get that far.
I had a AMD mobile 2400 (Barton) that sometimes would only be recognized as
a 2100 and only one/sixth of the L2 cache would be recognized.
One other thing I thought of was if that mb had a provision where it would
stop the booting process if it detected that the cpu fan wasn't operating
fast enough. If you have a spare cpu fan, try that, but don't bother buying
one just to try it out.
Best of luck.
Buffalo
PS: Another great free and very helpful site is VirutalDr.com.
Very knowledgeable and helpful folks there.


 
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westom
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      05-06-2009
On May 6, 2:45*pm, "tomm" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> Havent I eliminated the power supply ? *Tried 2 different ones and the
> problem is still there .
> Swap the CPU and the problem is solved. 99% of the people on here would try
> the elimination process to pinpoint a faulty componant and be
> happy to do it that way. By eliminating and combining different parts I am
> as certain as I can be it is linked to the cpu.


Maybe 99% of the people would do that. And 1% who actually know how
things work would not. Is this a popularity contest or a technical
problem?

You swapped power supplies. That means you learned nothing. But
again, the concept:
Your supply is 'unknown'. Swapping a supply still leaves you with an
'unknown' for so many reasons including - A defective power supply
can still boot a computer (which you may have had). >>>A new and good
power supply can sometimes fail in an otherwise perfectly good
computer.<<< More problems that the meter will indentify in minutes
so that you never see this (and some other) problems months from
now. So instead you swapped power supplies and got more useless
information.

With nothing on the list of 'definitively good' or 'definitively
bad', then nothing was accomplished.

You have help that knows this stuff far in excess of what you will
ever know. That help can do nothing for you because 1) you shotgun
and 2) provide not even one single post of useful facts. Provided is
how to have facts. But instead you continue to have the same problem
only because you shotgun.

This is the third time for that above paragraph:
> Swapping a supply still leaves you with ...

and still you don't get it. Which parts do you know are good
without any doubt? List them? Shotgunning (your diagnostic methods)
is why you continue to have problems. From my very first post;
obvious that you have eliminated nothing because 1) you are
speculating wildly (not 'following the evidence') and 2) you are
shotgunning.

70% also knew that Saddam had WMDs. But the minority who first
viewed facts before knowing saw the lie. Do you believe the majority
- or those who know only after learning facts? Why do you think every
military academy graduates everyone with engineering training? Becaue
they need people who know how to solve problems. Get the meter and get
numbers now. Otherwise keep buying more parts until something only
appears to work - again.
 
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tomm
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      05-06-2009

"Buffalo" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:gtsugd$ajo$(E-Mail Removed)...
>
>
> tomm wrote:
>>> Buffalo
>>> PS: If you ever get it figured out, PLEASE post back!
>>>

>> yes.. tried 2 different power supplies , 2 different motherboards .
>> Stripped the MB down to the bare componants needed to boot up. The
>> problem is only there with one of the processors (the slower one) .
>> As for the PS needing more power to boot the 1st time , I can turn
>> it off and on 10 times and the pc will only boot on
>> attempts 2, 4 , 6 , 8 & 10 without fail. Also the time between
>> attempts makes no difference. The time between attempts
>> 1 & 2 can be 10 seconds or 10 hours.
>> The pc runs fine apart from this and I am thinking I am just going
>> to have to put up with it.

>
> Now that is interesting about every other time even though the time off is
> only a few seconds.
> Is your cpu recognized by the BIOS properly during the times when it
> doesn't
> boot, or doesn't it even get that far.
> I had a AMD mobile 2400 (Barton) that sometimes would only be recognized
> as
> a 2100 and only one/sixth of the L2 cache would be recognized.
> One other thing I thought of was if that mb had a provision where it would
> stop the booting process if it detected that the cpu fan wasn't operating
> fast enough. If you have a spare cpu fan, try that, but don't bother
> buying
> one just to try it out.
> Best of luck.
> Buffalo
> PS: Another great free and very helpful site is VirutalDr.com.
> Very knowledgeable and helpful folks there.


thanks for the replies everyone..
On the times it doesnt boot up , only the cpu and case fans start. It
doesnt get as far as the bios .

 
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tomm
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      05-06-2009

"lugnut" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> On Tue, 5 May 2009 22:02:14 +0100, "tomm"
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>Sorry for repeating this post which some of you may remember..
>> but I have tacked some important info onto the end of it ..........
>>..........
>>I have just replaced my motherboard ( a straight swap for the same model )
>>.
>>Its an asrock k758x.
>> Seems fine but there is one problem.
>> I turn it on & on the first attempt the fans start up but nothing else.
>> No
>>beeps , no signal to the monitor ..nothing.
>> So I turn it off again. On the 2nd attempt it boots up fine , no problems
>>at all.
>> And thats the way it goes every time. The 1st attempt always fails. The
>> 2nd
>>attempt always boots up ok.
>> I know I can always turn it on at the 2nd attempt but why do I have to
>> go
>>through the same routine of the first attempt failing?
>>
>>.................... ok that was my post from last time but I am as sure
>>as I can be that it is connected to the cpu.
>>I got fed up with the problem so I assumed it was the new motherboard and
>>put my old one back in.
>> The problem is still there so the problem must be the cpu. It is the only
>>thing that is different from me having the problem & not having the
>>problem.
>>I also put my old cpu back in for a moment to double check & this
>>confirmed
>>the problem only ever happens with my xp2200 cpu. My bios detects the
>>right
>>cpu & speed so are there any suggestions why this happens ?
>>
>>
>>
>>

> Your problem sounds like one I crossed a few years back.
> Mine was an Abit MB IIRC but, the problem was with the boot
> time for the hard drive. I do not recall exactly how the
> problem was curred but, it involved adding 2 seconds to the
> time allowed for the hard drive to spin up. This more or
> less paused the oot process of the MB allowing the hard
> drive to be ready. Otherwise, it would just hang as if there
> was no drive installed. Pushing the reset button would
> always start it. Do a google search for hard drive boot
> delat and you will probably find quite a few things on it
> including a little utility to pause the boot long enough for
> the HD to spin up. Another problem you may have is a power
> supply that is weak or overloaded resulting in low hd
> voltage at boot. If adding the delay utility does the job
> and the problem developed over time, I would bea little
> suspicious of the PS unit. None of the above is guaranteed
> to fix your problem but the utility is free. The info is
> worth exactly what you paid for it unless it works in which
> case luck was with you.
>
> Lugnut

thanks for the above but , I can do a 1st attempt and fail.
Do a 2nd attempt and succeed. Then turn off & do a 3rd attempt and fail.
Then I can leave it till the next day and it will boot first time because
it is a boot attempt on an even number (the 4th in 2 days).
Hope this makes sense... on this second day it will boot first time , but
only because it failed on the previous days last attempt.. boot up / fail
/ boot up / fail boot up / fail ... the time between the attempts makes no
difference


 
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Buffalo
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      05-06-2009


The Old Sourdough wrote:
> tomm mumbled in 24hoursupport.helpdesk:
>
> big snip
>
>> thanks for the above but , I can do a 1st attempt and fail.
>> Do a 2nd attempt and succeed. Then turn off & do a 3rd attempt and
>> fail. Then I can leave it till the next day and it will boot first
>> time because it is a boot attempt on an even number (the 4th in 2
>> days). Hope this makes sense... on this second day it will boot
>> first time , but only because it failed on the previous days last
>> attempt.. boot up / fail / boot up / fail boot up / fail ... the
>> time between the attempts makes no difference

>
>
> Have you condisered the services of an exorcist? Or maybe an Apache
> shaman or medicine man?


Finally, a reasonable answer.


 
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Buffalo
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      05-07-2009


tomm wrote:
> thanks for the above but , I can do a 1st attempt and fail.
> Do a 2nd attempt and succeed. Then turn off & do a 3rd attempt and
> fail. Then I can leave it till the next day and it will boot first
> time because it is a boot attempt on an even number (the 4th in 2
> days). Hope this makes sense... on this second day it will boot
> first time , but only because it failed on the previous days last
> attempt.. boot up / fail / boot up / fail boot up / fail ... the
> time between the attempts makes no difference


Damn, if you would have said that earlier (in your post), I don't think
anyone would have suspected the PSU.
I am talking about leaving it off overnight and it booting the first time
because it was 'even' numbered.
Since this has been going on for quite awhile, perhaps you can tell me what
your cpu is, as I don't remember.
Best of luck,
Buffalo
PS: Older cpu's can be had pretty cheap on Ebay.


 
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Tony
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      05-07-2009
Oh no! Not the same stupid advice twice, yes twice to the same question again!!

chuckcar wrote:

> "tomm" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
> news:004a536c$0$22166$(E-Mail Removed):
>
> >
> > "chuckcar" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> > news:Xns9C02EBE5F8256chucknilcar@127.0.0.1...

>
> >> As a matter of fact he *did* try a different power supply, but never
> >> mentioned the power rating of either, making the mention meaningless of
> >> course.
> >>
> >> Message-ID: <00381447$0$21901$(E-Mail Removed)>
> >>
> >> Is the original post. Curiously with the same exact subject.

>
> > They were both 300w. Both tried with just the cpu & memory connected.
> > no, its not the memory either. both sticks tried alone , together and
> > in
> > different slots.
> >

> Only 300 watts? I guess they were both working fine, but I believe 450 or
> so would be the figure given as adequate.
>
> Besides, you were given the suggestion - more than once if I recall correctly -
> to remove all but one stick of RAM, everything from USB/Firewire/PCMCIA, replace
> the video card with a low power (straight simple VGA card if available) or
> better yet use onboard. Everything else other than the keyboard and mouse should
> be removed too.
>
> The point is to show that the computer *can* boot if it has low enough power
> consumption. If it does, then the power supply isn't producing enough power for
> the hardware that was there. This is a completely different thing than the power
> supply having a problem. If the computer *doesn't* boot, then it's down to what
> you have left - a stripped down list of possibilities. That's *why* that works.
> --
> (setq (chuck nil) car(chuck) )


--
The Grandmaster of the CyberFROG

Come get your ticket to CyberFROG city

Nay, Art thou decideth playeth ye simpleton games. *Some* of us know proper manners

Very few. I used to take calls from *rank* noobs,

Hamster isn't a newsreader it's a mistake!

El-Gonzo Jackson FROGS both me and Chuckcar

Master Juba was a black man imitating a white man imitating a black man

Using my technical prowess and computer abilities to answer questions beyond the
realm of understandability

Regards Tony... Making usenet better for everyone everyday


 
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      05-07-2009
tomm pretended :
> "chuckcar" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:Xns9C02EBE5F8256chucknilcar@127.0.0.1...
>> "Buffalo" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
>> news:gtqfus$36r$(E-Mail Removed):
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> tomm wrote:
>>>>..... ok that was my post from last time but I am as
>>>> sure as I can be that it is connected to the cpu.
>>>> I got fed up with the problem so I assumed it was the new
>>>> motherboard
>>>> and put my old one back in.
>>>> The problem is still there so the problem must be the cpu. It is
>>>> the
>>>> only thing that is different from me having the problem & not
>>>> having
>>>> the problem. I also put my old cpu back in for a moment to double
>>>> check & this confirmed the problem only ever happens with my
>>>> xp2200
>>>> cpu. My bios detects the right cpu & speed so are there any
>>>> suggestions why this happens ?
>>>
>>> I seem to remember your original post.
>>> Did you ever try a different power supply? I think you did, and if
>>> so,
>>> just disregard.
>>> The reason behind that was that it takes more power to start
>>> spinning up
>>> the HDD than it does to do a warm reboot while the HDD is still
>>> spinning. Buffalo
>>> PS: If you ever get it figured out, PLEASE post back!

>>
>> As a matter of fact he *did* try a different power supply, but
>> never
>> mentioned the power rating of either, making the mention
>> meaningless of
>> course.
>>
>> Message-ID: <00381447$0$21901$(E-Mail Removed)>
>>
>> Is the original post. Curiously with the same exact subject.
>>
>>
>> --

>
> They were both 300w. Both tried with just the cpu & memory
> connected.
> no, its not the memory either. both sticks tried alone , together
> and in different slots.


Have you tried the memory in another computer? Forgive me if you've
answered this before.

Top


 
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