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Third Party Modules

 
 
Brock
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      04-28-2009
Hi Everyone,

I know this is most likely a basic question and you will roll your
eyes, but I am just starting out with Python (hobbyist) and I see many
tutorials on the web referring to the use of external modules.

However, when I locate them, they often come as a zipped folder with a
number of files. How do I install them? In addition, is there an
easy way to manage external modules? Some I see require additional
modules not included.

Where I am coming from is R, which has a point-and-click way of
getting packages not distributed with the version of the software, so
that is my point of reference.

Many thanks!

- Brock
 
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tuxagb
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      04-28-2009
On 28 Apr, 17:02, Brock <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> Hi Everyone,
>
> I know this is most likely a basic question and you will roll your
> eyes, but I am just starting out with Python (hobbyist) and I see many
> tutorials on the web referring to the use of external modules.
>
> However, when I locate them, they often come as a zipped folder with a
> number of files. *How do I install them? *In addition, is there an
> easy way to manage external modules? Some I see require additional
> modules not included.
>
> Where I am coming from is R, which has a point-and-click way of
> getting packages not distributed with the version of the software, so
> that is my point of reference.
>
> Many thanks!
>
> - Brock


If you are on Unix-like machine, unzip the archive in a some
directory, do cd into the new directory
and, from command line, do: python ./setup.py build (verify there is
the script setup.py), and then
python ./setup.py install (with root's permissions). On Win32 usually
there are an automatic installer.

Hi.
 
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John Nagle
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      04-28-2009
Brock wrote:
> Hi Everyone,
>
> I know this is most likely a basic question and you will roll your
> eyes, but I am just starting out with Python (hobbyist) and I see many
> tutorials on the web referring to the use of external modules.
>
> However, when I locate them, they often come as a zipped folder with a
> number of files. How do I install them? In addition, is there an
> easy way to manage external modules? Some I see require additional
> modules not included.


There are several different mechanism for handling this, and they all suck.
The whole Python module distribution scheme is so uncoordinated that there's
no uniform way to do this. It's not your fault.

There's "python ./setup.py". There are "eggs", which are supposed to
install very simply, but in practice usually fail to install properly,
producing obscure error messages. There are Windows installers.
There's no consistency.

I'm currently struggling with guiding users through installation
of a Python program I put on SourceForge. I have to explain to them how
to install three different external modules which don't have compatible
installation mechanisms.

I'm not going to put Python software out for public use again. I don't
have the time to deal with this crap.

John Nagle
Animats
 
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David Robinow
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Posts: n/a
 
      04-28-2009
On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 1:15 PM, John Nagle <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> Brock wrote:
>>
>> Hi Everyone,
>>
>> I know this is most likely a basic question and you will roll your
>> eyes, but I am just starting out with Python (hobbyist) and I see many
>> tutorials on the web referring to the use of external modules.
>>
>> However, when I locate them, they often come as a zipped folder with a
>> number of files. *How do I install them? *In addition, is there an
>> easy way to manage external modules? Some I see require additional
>> modules not included.

>
> * There are several different mechanism for handling this, and they all
> suck.
> The whole Python module distribution scheme is so uncoordinated that there's
> no uniform way to do this. *It's not your fault.
>
> * There's "python ./setup.py". *There are "eggs", which are supposed to
> install very simply, but in practice usually fail to install properly,
> producing obscure error messages. *There are Windows installers.
> There's no consistency.
>
> * I'm currently struggling with guiding users through installation
> of a Python program I put on SourceForge. I have to explain to them how
> to install three different external modules which don't have compatible
> installation mechanisms.
>
> * I'm not going to put Python software out for public use again. *I don't
> have the time to deal with this crap.
>
> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *John Nagle
> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *Animats
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


Well, John, I do have the time to deal with this crap, since I'm
retired, or unemployed, or somewhere in between. I have no idea if you
have any useful software to share. But feel free to give your users my
email address ((E-Mail Removed)) and I'll do my best to help.
 
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Mike Driscoll
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Posts: n/a
 
      04-28-2009
On Apr 28, 12:15*pm, John Nagle <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> Brock wrote:
> > Hi Everyone,

>
> > I know this is most likely a basic question and you will roll your
> > eyes, but I am just starting out with Python (hobbyist) and I see many
> > tutorials on the web referring to the use of external modules.

>
> > However, when I locate them, they often come as a zipped folder with a
> > number of files. *How do I install them? *In addition, is there an
> > easy way to manage external modules? Some I see require additional
> > modules not included.

>
> * * There are several different mechanism for handling this, and they all suck.
> The whole Python module distribution scheme is so uncoordinated that there's
> no uniform way to do this. *It's not your fault.
>
> * * There's "python ./setup.py". *There are "eggs", which are supposed to
> install very simply, but in practice usually fail to install properly,
> producing obscure error messages. *There are Windows installers.
> There's no consistency.
>
> * * I'm currently struggling with guiding users through installation
> of a Python program I put on SourceForge. I have to explain to them how
> to install three different external modules which don't have compatible
> installation mechanisms.
>
> * * I'm not going to put Python software out for public use again. *I don't
> have the time to deal with this crap.
>
> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * John Nagle
> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Animats


I've found the eggs thing to work more often than not. But I've seen
it fail before too. I'm not sure where tuxagb got the idea that
there's usually a Windows installer. If I want something, it's usually
more like a 50-50 chance of there being an installer.

Anyway, hopefully the snakebite project will help with this a little.

Mike
 
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Gabriel Genellina
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Posts: n/a
 
      04-29-2009
En Tue, 28 Apr 2009 15:59:54 -0300, Mike Driscoll <(E-Mail Removed)>
escribió:
> On Apr 28, 12:15*pm, John Nagle <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>> Brock wrote:
>>
>> > I see many
>> > tutorials on the web referring to the use of external modules.
>> > However, when I locate them, they often come as a zipped folder with a
>> > number of files. *How do I install them? *In addition, is there an
>> > easy way to manage external modules? Some I see require additional
>> > modules not included.

>>
>> * * There's "python ./setup.py". *There are "eggs", which are supposed
>> to
>> install very simply, but in practice usually fail to install properly,
>> producing obscure error messages. *There are Windows installers.
>> There's no consistency.

>
> I've found the eggs thing to work more often than not. But I've seen
> it fail before too. I'm not sure where tuxagb got the idea that
> there's usually a Windows installer. If I want something, it's usually
> more like a 50-50 chance of there being an installer.


If the package includes some C extensions, typical Windows users won't be
able to compile them, so a binary distribution is a must.
Usually, it's enough to execute:
python setup.py bdist_wininst
and let distutils do its work.

--
Gabriel Genellina

 
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Jorgen Grahn
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      04-29-2009
On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 10:15:23 -0700, John Nagle <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> Brock wrote:
>> Hi Everyone,
>>
>> I know this is most likely a basic question and you will roll your
>> eyes, but I am just starting out with Python (hobbyist) and I see many
>> tutorials on the web referring to the use of external modules.

....

> There are several different mechanism for handling this, and they all suck.
> The whole Python module distribution scheme is so uncoordinated that there's
> no uniform way to do this. It's not your fault.

....
> I'm not going to put Python software out for public use again. I don't
> have the time to deal with this crap.


And which other language would have made it easier? Once you have odd
third-party dependencies, you (or your users, rather) will have
problems.

/orgen

--
// Jorgen Grahn <grahn@ Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu
\X/ snipabacken.se> R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
 
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David Lyon
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      04-29-2009

> On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 10:15:23 -0700, John Nagle <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>> Brock wrote:
>>> Hi Everyone,
>>>
>>> I know this is most likely a basic question and you will roll your
>>> eyes, but I am just starting out with Python (hobbyist) and I see many
>>> tutorials on the web referring to the use of external modules.

> ...
>
>> There are several different mechanism for handling this, and they

> all suck.
>> The whole Python module distribution scheme is so uncoordinated that

> there's
>> no uniform way to do this. It's not your fault.

> ...
>> I'm not going to put Python software out for public use again. I

> don't
>> have the time to deal with this crap.


People are working on this.... for example, I am working on a Package
Manager Project on sourceforge to solve exactly these problems.

Hopefully soon we will be ready to do a release.

In the spirit of open source, you would be welcome to join our project,
and do some testing. Report some bugs etc.

http://sourceforge.net/projects/pythonpkgmgr/

Best Regards

David









 
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