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Cloud Computing

 
 
Roedy Green
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      04-15-2009
Is "cloud computing" a meaningless marketing buzzword or is there
something substantial behind it? Sun keeps sending me Vip-commercials
for it (Vip was a fictitious product accidentally and generically
advertised in the Doris Day/Rock Hudson movie Lover Come Back).

I would like to compose an entry in the Java Glossary. What should I
say?


--
Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
http://mindprod.com

"The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference."
~ Charles Darwin.
 
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Qu0ll
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      04-15-2009
"Roedy Green" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Is "cloud computing" a meaningless marketing buzzword or is there
> something substantial behind it? Sun keeps sending me Vip-commercials
> for it (Vip was a fictitious product accidentally and generically
> advertised in the Doris Day/Rock Hudson movie Lover Come Back).
>
> I would like to compose an entry in the Java Glossary. What should I
> say?


Industry is always looking for new buzzwords. Cloud Computing came out of
SOA and SaaS. Though the terms may change the underlying concept of
delivering software as a service is a substantial paradigm shift from the
traditional model and is here to stay.

So it may be called something else in a few years time but it's worth
investing time into learning about it now. I guess the most prominent
branded products in this area are Google's App Engine, Amazon's services and
Windows Azure.

--
And loving it,

-Qu0ll (Rare, not extinct)
_________________________________________________
http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed)
[Replace the "SixFour" with numbers to email me]

 
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Tom Anderson
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      04-15-2009
On Tue, 14 Apr 2009, Peter Duniho wrote:

> On Tue, 14 Apr 2009 20:49:54 -0700, Roedy Green
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> Is "cloud computing" a meaningless marketing buzzword or is there
>> something substantial behind it?

>
> To me, the defining aspect of "cloud computing" is that I don't have control
> over my data.


That's only the case if you give up control over your data. If you want
control, keep it. For instance, if you're running a typical e-commerce
site, you can run the database housing the product catalogue etc in-house,
but run your app servers out in the cloud, with plenty of memory for
caching (or even a complete copy of the catalogue on disk, which you can
update remotely). The only network traffic will be database reads on cache
misses, and writes when orders etc are made. Terminating those kinds of
requests will be far less resource-intensive than running the entire site,
so you need far lighter in-house infrastructure, but retain complete
control (if we understand the same thing by 'control', that is).

To me, the defining aspects is instant scalability. Using something like
EC2, you can go to a webpage (or programmatically to a web service) and
enlarge your app from running on a single machine to a hundred with a
single click. And moreover, you pay for what you use - you don't have to
pay a retainer to keep those 99 extra machines available. That's what
differentiates cloud from a conventional hosting provider.

The other big differences are that cloud environments provide a richer set
of facilities than a plain host - typically a persistent mass storage
facility, possibly structured as a database of some sort, and a message
queue service.

Oh, and also, you typically don't get uptime guarantees, so you have to
structure your app in such a way that it can smoothly ride over some of
its servers vanishing with no warning! This is why the facilities are so
important - keeping all the important state in the storage service and
using the queue to manage requests helps you do this.

tom

--
I believe there is no philosophical high-road in science, with
epistemological signposts. No, we are in a jungle and find our way by
trial and error, building our road behind us as we proceed. -- Max Born
 
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Roedy Green
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      04-15-2009
On Wed, 15 Apr 2009 00:03:01 -0400, Lew <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote,
quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :

>
>GIYF and WIYF.
><http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_computing>
><http://www.google.com/search?q=cloud+computing>


The problem is what is written sounds like salesman bafflegab. I was
someone was hoping to tell me if there was something of importance
behind it, and what it was.

For example Wikipedi says "Cloud computing is a style of computing in
which dynamically scalable and often virtualised resources are
provided as a service over the Internet. Users need not have knowledge
of, expertise in, or control over the technology infrastructure "in
the cloud" that supports them."

I have heard almost those same words use to sell hundreds of products.
--
Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
http://mindprod.com

"The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference."
~ Charles Darwin.
 
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David Segall
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      04-15-2009
Roedy Green <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Is "cloud computing" a meaningless marketing buzzword or is there
>something substantial behind it? Sun keeps sending me Vip-commercials
>for it (Vip was a fictitious product accidentally and generically
>advertised in the Doris Day/Rock Hudson movie Lover Come Back).
>
>I would like to compose an entry in the Java Glossary. What should I
>say?



You may have already rejected it but I found the Sun "Guide to Getting
Started with Cloud Computing"
<http://www.sun.com/offers/details/cloud_computing_primer.html>
helpful. The are several of the twenty six pages that you could delete
because they are only pushing Sun's offerings in the field but I
thought the remainder was a useful primer.
 
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Tom Anderson
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      04-15-2009
On Wed, 15 Apr 2009, Peter Duniho wrote:

> On Wed, 15 Apr 2009 06:33:11 -0700, Tom Anderson <(E-Mail Removed)>
> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 14 Apr 2009, Peter Duniho wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 14 Apr 2009 20:49:54 -0700, Roedy Green
>>> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Is "cloud computing" a meaningless marketing buzzword or is there
>>>> something substantial behind it?
>>>
>>> To me, the defining aspect of "cloud computing" is that I don't have
>>> control over my data.

>>
>> That's only the case if you give up control over your data. If you want
>> control, keep it. [...]

>
> That is very often impossible.
>
> As I noted already, the term "cloud computing" is poorly-defined. But the
> current popular usage, as opposed to a more formalized description (as found
> on Wikipedia for example), is generally concerning such user applications as
> web email, social networking sites, blogging sites, newsgroup portals, photo
> album sites, etc.


What? That's not what cloud computing means in the slightest.

> This is because most of the people using the term are the end-users, not
> the system architects, developers, and admins, with their own point of
> view.


I have never heard anyone use the term 'cloud computing' to refer to any
of those things, end-user, developer, salesman, priest, nobody. Could you
point me at some examples of its use to mean that?

tom

--
We discovered in Nature's work a pattern of sloppiness, indifference to
basic scholarly standards, and flagrant errors so numerous they completely
invalidated the results. -- Encyclopaedia Britannica
 
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Arved Sandstrom
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      04-16-2009
David Segall wrote:
> Roedy Green <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> Is "cloud computing" a meaningless marketing buzzword or is there
>> something substantial behind it? Sun keeps sending me Vip-commercials
>> for it (Vip was a fictitious product accidentally and generically
>> advertised in the Doris Day/Rock Hudson movie Lover Come Back).
>>
>> I would like to compose an entry in the Java Glossary. What should I
>> say?

>
>
> You may have already rejected it but I found the Sun "Guide to Getting
> Started with Cloud Computing"
> <http://www.sun.com/offers/details/cloud_computing_primer.html>
> helpful. The are several of the twenty six pages that you could delete
> because they are only pushing Sun's offerings in the field but I
> thought the remainder was a useful primer.


I agree - I've read it myself. I thought it was a pretty reasonable
description.

AHS
 
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Arne Vajh°j
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      04-16-2009
Roedy Green wrote:
> Is "cloud computing" a meaningless marketing buzzword or is there
> something substantial behind it?


Absolutely.

You will see a lot of solutions being hosted in the cloud
in the next decade.

Arne
 
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Arne Vajh°j
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      04-16-2009
Qu0ll wrote:
> "Roedy Green" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>> Is "cloud computing" a meaningless marketing buzzword or is there
>> something substantial behind it? Sun keeps sending me Vip-commercials
>> for it (Vip was a fictitious product accidentally and generically
>> advertised in the Doris Day/Rock Hudson movie Lover Come Back).
>>
>> I would like to compose an entry in the Java Glossary. What should I
>> say?

>
> Industry is always looking for new buzzwords. Cloud Computing came out
> of SOA and SaaS. Though the terms may change the underlying concept of
> delivering software as a service is a substantial paradigm shift from
> the traditional model and is here to stay.


Cloud is PaaS not SaaS.

> So it may be called something else in a few years time but it's worth
> investing time into learning about it now. I guess the most prominent
> branded products in this area are Google's App Engine, Amazon's services
> and Windows Azure.


Yup.

Arne
 
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Arne Vajh├Şj
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      04-16-2009
Peter Duniho wrote:
> That said, IMHO the Wikipedia article gives the phrase far too much
> technical detail as compared to how it's actually used by most people I
> hear. The more popular, less rigorous definition seems to be simply any
> kind of user/client application that would traditionally run entirely on
> a workstation, but which instead has been implemented as a client/server
> application.
>
> In that usage, the key identifying feature is that the primary storage
> and manipulation of the user's data is on the server, while the
> client-side portion of the application is simply some kind of view onto
> the server state. Most often (at least in the popular context), that
> "view" is implemented using HTML and related technologies (e.g. browser
> scripting, CSS, etc.).


That is not cloud computing.

That is thin client, client-server etc..

Arne
 
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