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Python Goes Mercurial

 
 
Tim Daneliuk
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      04-01-2009
Carl Banks wrote:
> On Mar 31, 6:25 pm, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <l...@geek-
> central.gen.new_zealand> wrote:
>> <http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2009/03/python-adopts-the-mer...>
>>
>> So what were these "strong antipathies" towards Git, exactly?

>
> Apparently Mercurial had it's own hate club, and the reaction on
> python-dev was so severe GvR backtracked on his decision.
>
> Trying to appease a least common denominator, he changed his mind and
> Python is going with SCCS instead.
>
>
> Carl Banks





A few years ago I had a very large client - many multi-billions of
dollars in revenue annually - that ran their entire custom IT
system from a home grown variant of SCCS. It did work, but when
I suggested that better open source tools existed, they kindly
explained their complete lack of interest in moving several millions
of lines of code to anything new. Go figure.

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Lawrence D'Oliveiro
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      04-02-2009
In message <(E-Mail Removed)>, Tim Daneliuk wrote:

> ,,, when I suggested that better open source tools existed, they kindly
> explained their complete lack of interest in moving several millions
> of lines of code to anything new.


What was their explanation?

 
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Lawrence D'Oliveiro
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      04-02-2009
In message <7a1dd0d8-1978-470b-
(E-Mail Removed)>, Paul Boddie wrote:

> And I've heard stories of "bait and
> switch" with Git: "you can do XYZ with Git but not with ..." followed
> by the discovery that you can't realistically do XYZ with Git, either.


Cite?

 
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Tim Daneliuk
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      04-02-2009
Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> In message <(E-Mail Removed)>, Tim Daneliuk wrote:
>
>> ,,, when I suggested that better open source tools existed, they kindly
>> explained their complete lack of interest in moving several millions
>> of lines of code to anything new.

>
> What was their explanation?
>


Their entire internal workflow from development through final release
and deployment was built around these ancient/nonstandard toolset. It
was economically infeasible to retool both the technology and the
processes for millions of lines of code under version control - there
just wasn't an ROI for it. This is not uncommon in large legacy
environments in my experience.


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Paul Boddie
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      04-02-2009
On 2 Apr, 04:27, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <l...@geek-
central.gen.new_zealand> wrote:
> In message <7a1dd0d8-1978-470b-
>
> (E-Mail Removed)>, Paul Boddie wrote:
> > And I've heard stories of "bait and
> > switch" with Git: "you can do XYZ with Git but not with ..." followed
> > by the discovery that you can't realistically do XYZ with Git, either.

>
> Cite?


Well, I "heard" stories rather than read them, so I can't cite them,
but I believe that one argument crafted to favour Git was that it is
great for history editing, but it turns out that it isn't so great, as
the following commentary points out:

"You can do it, but as soon as you go to merge with another repo that
had the unedited commit history, you’ll bump into weirdness (and
probably invalidate your whole reason for rebasing, which was to clean
up the history)."

- http://adam.blog.heroku.com/past/200...iting_commits/

I'm sure other people have their own tales of a similar nature.

Paul
 
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David Cournapeau
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      04-02-2009
On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 9:12 PM, Paul Boddie <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>
> "You can do it, but as soon as you go to merge with another repo that
> had the unedited commit history, you’ll bump into weirdness (and
> probably invalidate your whole reason for rebasing, which was to clean
> up the history)."
>
> Â*- http://adam.blog.heroku.com/past/200...iting_commits/
>
> I'm sure other people have their own tales of a similar nature.


It is explained in this article why rebase can't be used for something
which will be the base for upcoming merges; not all branches are
intended this way (but most public ones are). I would say this shows
one feature which I think matters a lot in git, more than rebasing
itself: multiple branches in a repo, and very cheap branching (in CPU
cost, space and workflow) so that you can use private branches for
experimentation.

cheers,

David
 
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Kay Schluehr
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      04-02-2009
On 1 Apr., 07:56, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <l...@geek-
central.gen.new_zealand> wrote:
> In message <35d429fa-5d13-4703-
>
> (E-Mail Removed)>, John Yeung wrote:
> > Here's one that clearly expresses strong antipathy:

>
> > http://mail.python.org/pipermail/pyt...ch/087971.html

>
> There are lots of GUI- and Web-based front ends to Git. And look at on-line
> services like GitHub and Gitorious. The level of support for it is huge.


Ironically Mercurials most popular UI frontend Tortoise is going to
crash Python tools ( like Wing-IDE ) on Windows. That's a known issue
for about a year and more and the developers are not inclined to fix
it. This doesn't really increase my trust that Mercurials UI tools are
of a higher quality than Git's no matter which platform is used.
 
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David Smith
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      04-02-2009
Kay Schluehr wrote:
> On 1 Apr., 07:56, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <l...@geek-
> central.gen.new_zealand> wrote:
>> In message <35d429fa-5d13-4703-
>>
>> (E-Mail Removed)>, John Yeung wrote:
>>> Here's one that clearly expresses strong antipathy:
>>> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/pyt...ch/087971.html

>> There are lots of GUI- and Web-based front ends to Git. And look at on-line
>> services like GitHub and Gitorious. The level of support for it is huge.

>
> Ironically Mercurials most popular UI frontend Tortoise is going to
> crash Python tools ( like Wing-IDE ) on Windows. That's a known issue
> for about a year and more and the developers are not inclined to fix
> it. This doesn't really increase my trust that Mercurials UI tools are
> of a higher quality than Git's no matter which platform is used.


The conflict between TortoiseHg and Wing IDE can be fixed by simply
uninstalling the Tortoise Overlays. You loose the graphic overlay on
folders, but otherwise everything works.

--David
 
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Kay Schluehr
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      04-02-2009
On 2 Apr., 15:05, David Smith <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> Kay Schluehr wrote:
> > On 1 Apr., 07:56, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <l...@geek-
> > central.gen.new_zealand> wrote:
> >> In message <35d429fa-5d13-4703-

>
> >> (E-Mail Removed)>, John Yeung wrote:
> >>> Here's one that clearly expresses strong antipathy:
> >>> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/pyt...ch/087971.html
> >> There are lots of GUI- and Web-based front ends to Git. And look at on-line
> >> services like GitHub and Gitorious. The level of support for it is huge.

>
> > Ironically Mercurials most popular UI frontend Tortoise is going to
> > crash Python tools ( like Wing-IDE ) on Windows. That's a known issue
> > for about a year and more and the developers are not inclined to fix
> > it. This doesn't really increase my trust that Mercurials UI tools are
> > of a higher quality than Git's no matter which platform is used.

>
> The conflict between TortoiseHg and Wing IDE can be fixed by simply
> uninstalling the Tortoise Overlays. You loose the graphic overlay on
> folders, but otherwise everything works.
>
> --David


Good to know. Uninstalling a major feature that enhances usability
just to make it usable isn't much less ironic though.
 
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Kay Schluehr
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      04-03-2009
> Meh. Use the command line like God intended.

I'm sorry to say this Rhodri but there is probably no god

The reason I like overlays is that they are data displays that
highlight changes without letting me do any action. The VCS works for
me before I'm doing any work with it and that's a good thing because
I'm *always* lazy.
 
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