«

Desk Rabbit <> wrote in
news:gpl5fj$ttr$:

> chuckcar wrote:
>> Desk Rabbit <> wrote in
>> news:gpisbu$ud3$:
>>
>>>> I *suggested* it as a solution. The problem is that the computer and
>>>> the converter draw more power than the computer's power supply can
>>>> provide, That's *why* they've been blowing so a UPS wouldn't fix the
>>>> problem. You'd still have the power coming from one source - the
>>>> computer's power supply. You need another power source for the VCR to
>>>> DVD device, hence a hub for it.
>>> You didn't mention a hub at all. In fact your exact words were "Also
>>> do *not* connect your VCR to DVD device to your computer's power
>>> supply, that's what blew it. Use a separate power supply plugged into
>>> the wall."
>>>
>> As in the usb hub. Which I *did* mention in the first thread.
> Which you then changed to a power strip.
>
No, never did. Give me an message id if you're going to make claims like
that or it's just bull.

>>
>>> The OP did not plug hs VCR/DVD into his power supply. He plugged his
>>> USB powered VCR/DVD into a usb slot.
>>
>> So the power from the computer's USB ports don't come from the
>> computers power supply???
> Via an on-board regulator.
>
>
>>> Seems perfectly reasonable to me to
>>> plug a USB powered device into a USB port. If though you feel the urge
>>> to plug a USB device into a mains wall socket, I'll be the first to
>>> provide details instructions for you.
>>>
>> Now you're just trolling.
> Nope, just wishfull thinking
>



--
(setq (chuck nil) car(chuck) )

chuckcar wrote:
> Desk Rabbit <> wrote in
> news:gpl5fj$ttr$:
>
>> chuckcar wrote:
>>> Desk Rabbit <> wrote in
>>> news:gpisbu$ud3$:
>>>
>>>>> I *suggested* it as a solution. The problem is that the computer and
>>>>> the converter draw more power than the computer's power supply can
>>>>> provide, That's *why* they've been blowing so a UPS wouldn't fix the
>>>>> problem. You'd still have the power coming from one source - the
>>>>> computer's power supply. You need another power source for the VCR to
>>>>> DVD device, hence a hub for it.
>>>> You didn't mention a hub at all. In fact your exact words were "Also
>>>> do *not* connect your VCR to DVD device to your computer's power
>>>> supply, that's what blew it. Use a separate power supply plugged into
>>>> the wall."
>>>>
>>> As in the usb hub. Which I *did* mention in the first thread.
>> Which you then changed to a power strip.
>>
> No, never did. Give me an message id if you're going to make claims like
> that or it's just bull.

I apologise you just went straight for the "plug the USB device into the
wall socket" approach.

I'll repeat your exact words again for you:-

"Also do *not* connect your VCR to DVD device to your computer's power
supply, that's what blew it. Use a separate power supply plugged into
the wall."

You were of course assuming that the device had either a mains plug or a
dc input socket and appropriate PSU.

I particularly liked your "We've seen this same exact thing mentioned by
another poster in the last month." which demonstrates your short
attention span, lack of attention and inability to read back over messages.


Headers were:-
From: chuckcar <>
Newsgroups: 24hoursupport.helpdesk
Subject: Re: Major Computer Problem
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 22:09:03 +0000 (UTC)
Organization: TornevallNET - http://news.tornevall.net
Lines: 45
Message-ID: <Xns9BCBABA1EAFD6chucknilcar@127.0.0.1>
References: <>
<gp8a8b$jj8$>
<>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 11229e8e397ba57737a44795f6b67cd9
X-Trace: c29128d832581504c0d5837b8b329557
X-Complaints-To:

On Sun, 15 Mar 2009 12:44:22 +0000, Desk Rabbit <>
wrote:

>Scribner wrote:
>> On Fri, 13 Mar 2009 20:27:01 -0700 (PDT), westom <>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Mar 13, 10:42 am, Scribner <walter...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> I'm thinking that when I was trying to copy the VHS to DVD I
>>>> overheated the CPU and it blew the power supply. I sincerely doubt if
>>>> my power outages had anything to do with the power supply blowing. But
>>>> the dead CPU fan probably did.
>>> Nothing in a computer can blow a power supply. True even long
>>> before PCs existed. Furthermore, overheating a CPU does no supply
>>> harm. Meanwhile, do you also know that the CPU has its own separate
>>> supply?
>>>
>>> Don't recall which CPU you had. But had it been an Intel,
>>> overheating would cause no damage - even to the CPU.
>>>
>>> With a multimeter - there is no way around best advise from someone
>>> who has done this for generations - then you would have seen that
>>> power supply and other power system components were OK in only two
>>> minutes. Then the third minute was spent looking for the actual
>>> problem.
>>>
>>> Is a power supply sufficiently sized? Again a meter would have
>>> reported that immediately. An undersized power supply can still boot
>>> and run a computer. But that same undersized supply is immediately
>>> known, without doubt, if using the meter.
>>>
>>> Video cards cannot "pull so much power that the blow the ps".
>>> Obvious as it was long before PCs existed. But hearsay is alive and
>>> well.
>>>
>>> Many supplies sold to computer assemblers are missing essential
>>> functions to sell only on dollars and watts. Therefore numeric specs
>>> get 'forgotten'. No specs mean the 1% who actually know this stuff
>>> cannot 'blow the whistle'.
>>>
>>> What are those essential functions? All supply outputs can be
>>> shorted and the supply is not harmed. Intel specs even define that
>>> test by listing the minimum testing wire diameter. Overpower
>>> protection means nothing in a computer can harm that supply - draw too
>>> much power. Overvoltage protection means a supply can never harm
>>> computer components. All functions and others were standard even
>>> before and in the original PC.
>>>
>>> Some power supply manufacturers may 'forget' to install required
>>> functions. Then their supply might harm computer components. Or too
>>> much load might damage the supply. Failures found in some (but not
>>> all) supplies provided without numeric specs. Suspect the worst if a
>>> supply sells for $25 or $40 retail.
>>>
>>> Your symptoms in that first post are also explained by another
>>> function of a power supply system. Apparently the safety lockout
>>> function was triggered. You then assumed that power supply failed.
>>> Replacing the power supply restart that safety lockout. Did you
>>> confuse safety lockout with a defective power supply? However we
>>> would know this immediately and without doubt had the multimeter been
>>> used.
>>>
>>> Moving on to include information in afternoon posts: You can
>>> keep replacing power supplies - or first learn what exists. That
>>> means two minutes, a computer under maximum load, and the multimeter.
>>> If the meter defines a power supply definitively good, then move on to
>>> other suspects - and don't even look back.
>>>
>>> First are the four voltages when under maximum load from any one
>>> orange, purple, red, and yellow wires. Then are the signal lines that
>>> the supply and supply controller talk on - gray and green wires. Those
>>> numbers necessary to confirm the supply, it controller, etc. .. so
>>> that we can move on to other suspects.
>>>
>>> For example, if a supply controller has a defective driver, than all
>>> power supplies will perform strangely.
>>
>>
>> Poking inside a computer, especially the power wires, when the
>> computer is on sends cold chills down my spine. However, maybe this
>> would be helpful:
>>
>> Vcore1: 1.28V Vcore2: 1.58V +3.3V: 1.84V +5V: 5.00V
>> +12V: 10.50V -12V: -0.10V -5: -0.23V +5V: 4.89V
>> Vbat: 3.28V
>>
>> My motherboard requires the following from a power supply:
>> +3.3V Must be "28A" or more.
>> +5V Must be "28A" or more.
>> +12V Must be "18A" or more.
>> The rest are "Any."
>>
>> My Thermaltake 600W specs are as follows:
>> +3.3V 30A
>> +5V 28A
>> +12V1 18A
>> +12V2 18A
>>
>> And this power supply lists for over $100.00.
>Ignore westom's verbal diarrhoea. Your -12 +3.3 and -5 voltages look all
>wrong. Were these measured with a multimeter? Your computer should not
>even be working with those levels. Are you absolutely 100% certain you
>measured at the right points?
>
>Is ignore westoms ridiculous advice about the motherboard monitor "That
>measurement device is not sufficiently accurate until calibrated with a
>multimeter." This is utter *******s and I've never seen one yet that you
>could calibrate. Sure they are not accurate but they are good enough for
>the purpose.
>
>Lets look at some facts. We can be fairly certain that your brand new
>PSU is working within reasonable limits because your computer is
>working, so your readings above must be mistaken.
>
>Please check & verify your readings.


I used a program called Speed Fan for these numbers.

On Sun, 15 Mar 2009 01:40:16 -0700 (PDT), westom <>
wrote:

>On Mar 15, 2:09*am, Scribner <walter...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Poking inside a computer, especially the power wires, when the
>> computer is on sends cold chills down my spine. *However, maybe this
>> would be helpful:
>>
>> Vcore1: 1.28V * * Vcore2: 1.58V * +3.3V: 1.84V *+5V: *5.00V
>> *+12V: *10.50V *-12V: -0.10V * * * -5: -0.23V * * * +5V: 4.89V
>> *Vbat: *3.28V
>
> I gather this is from the motherboard monitor. That measurement
>device is not sufficiently accurate until calibrated with a
>multimeter. However, assuming those numbers are correct inside your
>machine, your machine should not even work.
>
> 3.3 at 1.84 volts mean no operation. +12 volts at 10.5 volts is a
>complete failure. -12 volts is missing, required, but typically not
>needed to boot and run a computer. -5 volts typically has no function
>in any typical computer and is often missing on most power supplies.
>+5 is barely sufficient. Bat at 3.28 means the battery is fresh -
>probably new - no problem.
>
> If the system is a reason for failure, I would start with devices
>using 3.3 volts. That eliminates any powered peripherals such as disk
>drive, keyboard, CD-Rom, etc.
>
> So, is the load excessive due to a problem with hardware or a
>problem with the power supply? If I remember correctly, you spend
>much time looking for a power supply that met specs. Well, your
>motherboard requires 28 amps on 3.3 volts. Then that current
>increases with a plug-in video controller and other peripherals. IOW
>the power supply may be undersized. Assuming your voltages numbers
>are correct, then a low 3.3 volts (and other voltages) may report a
>power supply with insufficient current on 3.3 volts.
>
> If "Poking inside a computer ... sends cold chills down my spine."
>was a valid worry, then many are being electrocuted by jump starting a
>car. Car has even higher voltages - and is an electrical threat to no
>one. Anything dangerous inside a computer is heavily protected by
>steel (with signed saying do not open) so that you could never be at
>danger. And then the meter in VDC setting means even less threats.
>If fearing what is inside a powered on computer, then never cross the
>street. That is far more dangerous.
>
> How does the power supply turn on? Does the 120 volts go through
>the power switch? No. Of course not. That might put you at risk.
>Even the power switch has volts so low as to not even threaten an
>infant. The level of safety in an ATX computer is that large.
>
> Better is to first confirm those numbers with a multimeter.
>Measurements that would also calibrate the motherboard monitor. If
>the meter confirms those readings, repeat measurements with the video
>controller removed. Those voltages should increase if the power
>supply is insufficient. And if the power supply really does output
>and motherboard demands what is claimed, then you have confirmed the
>power supply is woefully too small; especially on the 3.3 volts.
>
> Moving on. Let's assume the 3.3 volts is too small. So you get a
>power supply with more current (greater than 28 amps) on the 3.3 V.
>It probably needs more current on the +12 volts (also reinstall video
>controller). Then use the multimeter again to confirm that new supply
>is more than sufficient when computer is booted to maximum load. If
>yes (and again, post those numbers here for further analysis or to
>learn more), then the power supply 'system' is good - definitively
>good.
>
> Why perform that last measurement? Because even a defective or
>undersized power supply can still boot a computer. Measurements on a
>new supply are an only fact to say that supply is sufficient for the
>load. Many foolishly believe that if a computer boots, then the power
>supply is OK. Nobody can know that without those multimeter readings.
>
> Not detailed here (yet) is what to do if removing a video controller
>causes no measurement number changes.
>
> Finally a caution. With computer powered off, measure the purple
>wire voltage (your previous post did not list that voltage). Notice
>that the purple wire (also called +5VSB) always provides power when
>computer is on or off. That is why you remove or install nothing
>without first disconnecting the power cord. Physically remove that AC
>power cord before changing anything inside the machine - to protect
>some transistors on some boards. It is a simple rule and the only
>internal danger. Some motherboards glow an LED just to warn you that
>the power cord is still connected.
>
> Good luck. I am looking forward to your next reply.
I'm not worried about juicing myself but I am fearful for shorting
something out in my computer. I cannot afford to buy any more parts.

On Sun, 15 Mar 2009 08:43:23 -0600, "Buffalo" <>
wrote:

>
>
>Scribner wrote:
>> Poking inside a computer, especially the power wires, when the
>> computer is on sends cold chills down my spine. However, maybe this
>> would be helpful:
>>
>> Vcore1: 1.28V Vcore2: 1.58V +3.3V: 1.84V +5V: 5.00V
>> +12V: 10.50V -12V: -0.10V -5: -0.23V +5V: 4.89V
>> Vbat: 3.28V
>>
>> My motherboard requires the following from a power supply:
>> +3.3V Must be "28A" or more.
>> +5V Must be "28A" or more.
>> +12V Must be "18A" or more.
>> The rest are "Any."
>>
>> My Thermaltake 600W specs are as follows:
>> +3.3V 30A
>> +5V 28A
>> +12V1 18A
>> +12V2 18A
>>
>> And this power supply lists for over $100.00.
>
>What are you using to get those voltages? Something is wrong. If you are
>using MotherBoardMonitor, you most likely are using the wrong inputs under
>the Voltage Configuration box in the Voltage section.
>Everest Home Edition seems to do a pretty good job of determining the
>correct voltages. Just expand the Computer header and select Sensor. I
>believe it is still a free program.
>Of course, the multimeter will usually be the most accurate.
>Just out of curiousity, what is the make and model of your MB?
>Buffalo
>

It is a PC Chips P23G v3. I usually use Asus or Abit boards. But I
didn't want to have to but all new parts. i wanted to keep some of my
legacy parts in order to save money.

On Sun, 15 Mar 2009 08:30:50 -0400, Leythos <>
wrote:

>In article <>,
> says...
>> Vcore1: 1.28V Vcore2: 1.58V +3.3V: 1.84V +5V: 5.00V
>> +12V: 10.50V -12V: -0.10V -5: -0.23V +5V: 4.89V
>> Vbat: 3.28V
>>
>
>Disconnect parts in the computer and on the motherboard until the
>voltages come back to the normal levels.
>
>Since BOTH your 12V levels are bad, you -5V is bad, and your 3.3 is bad,
>I would start with disconnecting EVERYTHING that is not fixed to the
>motherboard, you need the CPU and Video card - see if there are any
>changes.
>
>If you have a spare video card I would use it also, for testing.
>
>It would appear you either have a bad PSU or a major motherboard
>problem.
Unfortunately, I do not have a spare VGA card.

In article <>,
says...
> On Sun, 15 Mar 2009 08:30:50 -0400, Leythos <>
> wrote:
>
> >In article <>,
> > says...
> >> Vcore1: 1.28V Vcore2: 1.58V +3.3V: 1.84V +5V: 5.00V
> >> +12V: 10.50V -12V: -0.10V -5: -0.23V +5V: 4.89V
> >> Vbat: 3.28V
> >>
> >
> >Disconnect parts in the computer and on the motherboard until the
> >voltages come back to the normal levels.
> >
> >Since BOTH your 12V levels are bad, you -5V is bad, and your 3.3 is bad,
> >I would start with disconnecting EVERYTHING that is not fixed to the
> >motherboard, you need the CPU and Video card - see if there are any
> >changes.
> >
> >If you have a spare video card I would use it also, for testing.
> >
> >It would appear you either have a bad PSU or a major motherboard
> >problem.
> Unfortunately, I do not have a spare VGA card.
>

So, disconnect everything except the video card and check the voltages
using the BIOS Monitoring and not some program.

--
- Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
- Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling a
drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist"
(remove 999 for proper email address)

On Mar 16, 5:06*pm, Scribner <walter...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I'm not worried about juicing myself but I am fearful for shorting
> something out in my computer. *I cannot afford to buy any more parts.- Hide quoted text -

Greatest risk is when installing or removing something. Already
noted is that the power supply outputs can all be shorted together and
never cause damage. We routinely shorted digital semiconductor outputs
to diagnosis problems because that shorting also cannot cause damage.

If your probing created a risk, then previous posts warned of that
risk. Meanwhile, meter probes are high resistance. Now matter what
you touch, they will conduct almost zero current - also cannot damage
anything. You tell me. How can probing damage anything? Every
precaution has already been posted. Even listed are things you can
short out (including the power supply) and not create any damage.

What should worry you? Forgetting to disconnect a power cord before
added or removing something may be destructive. An easy mistake.
Installing something without static electric discharge is another
reason for hardware damage. When is hardware at greatest risk? When
you change something. Shotgunning. Anything to minimize change such
as probing with a meter means a safer computer.
..
Your fears are misplaced; not based in technical fact. Obtain
numbers so that the next reply is useful and so that computer hardware
is at less risk. At all costs, minimize what is riskier - part
swapping. Anything you might do with the multimeter to cause harm has
already been listed in detail.

Meanwhile, I am still waiting for further information to explain
numerous inconsistancies in your posts. For example, "3.3 at 1.84
volts mean no operation. +12 volts at 10.5 volts is a complete
failure." But your observations imply otherwise - assuming those
readings came from where I assumed and you did not define. Provide
those numbers. Fear not actions deviod of risk. Then learn
significantly from what those numbers report.

westom wrote:
> On Mar 16, 5:06 pm, Scribner <walter...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> I'm not worried about juicing myself but I am fearful for shorting
>> something out in my computer. I cannot afford to buy any more parts.- Hide quoted text -
>
> Greatest risk is when installing or removing something. Already
> noted is that the power supply outputs can all be shorted together and
> never cause damage. We routinely shorted digital semiconductor outputs
> to diagnosis problems because that shorting also cannot cause damage.

Go on. Short the +12v and -5v and let us know what happens

Respect of electricity is healthy.

Scribner wrote:
> On Sun, 15 Mar 2009 12:44:22 +0000, Desk Rabbit <>
> wrote:
>
>> Scribner wrote:
>>> On Fri, 13 Mar 2009 20:27:01 -0700 (PDT), westom <>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mar 13, 10:42 am, Scribner <walter...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>> I'm thinking that when I was trying to copy the VHS to DVD I
>>>>> overheated the CPU and it blew the power supply. I sincerely doubt if
>>>>> my power outages had anything to do with the power supply blowing. But
>>>>> the dead CPU fan probably did.
>>>> Nothing in a computer can blow a power supply. True even long
>>>> before PCs existed. Furthermore, overheating a CPU does no supply
>>>> harm. Meanwhile, do you also know that the CPU has its own separate
>>>> supply?
>>>>
>>>> Don't recall which CPU you had. But had it been an Intel,
>>>> overheating would cause no damage - even to the CPU.
>>>>
>>>> With a multimeter - there is no way around best advise from someone
>>>> who has done this for generations - then you would have seen that
>>>> power supply and other power system components were OK in only two
>>>> minutes. Then the third minute was spent looking for the actual
>>>> problem.
>>>>
>>>> Is a power supply sufficiently sized? Again a meter would have
>>>> reported that immediately. An undersized power supply can still boot
>>>> and run a computer. But that same undersized supply is immediately
>>>> known, without doubt, if using the meter.
>>>>
>>>> Video cards cannot "pull so much power that the blow the ps".
>>>> Obvious as it was long before PCs existed. But hearsay is alive and
>>>> well.
>>>>
>>>> Many supplies sold to computer assemblers are missing essential
>>>> functions to sell only on dollars and watts. Therefore numeric specs
>>>> get 'forgotten'. No specs mean the 1% who actually know this stuff
>>>> cannot 'blow the whistle'.
>>>>
>>>> What are those essential functions? All supply outputs can be
>>>> shorted and the supply is not harmed. Intel specs even define that
>>>> test by listing the minimum testing wire diameter. Overpower
>>>> protection means nothing in a computer can harm that supply - draw too
>>>> much power. Overvoltage protection means a supply can never harm
>>>> computer components. All functions and others were standard even
>>>> before and in the original PC.
>>>>
>>>> Some power supply manufacturers may 'forget' to install required
>>>> functions. Then their supply might harm computer components. Or too
>>>> much load might damage the supply. Failures found in some (but not
>>>> all) supplies provided without numeric specs. Suspect the worst if a
>>>> supply sells for $25 or $40 retail.
>>>>
>>>> Your symptoms in that first post are also explained by another
>>>> function of a power supply system. Apparently the safety lockout
>>>> function was triggered. You then assumed that power supply failed.
>>>> Replacing the power supply restart that safety lockout. Did you
>>>> confuse safety lockout with a defective power supply? However we
>>>> would know this immediately and without doubt had the multimeter been
>>>> used.
>>>>
>>>> Moving on to include information in afternoon posts: You can
>>>> keep replacing power supplies - or first learn what exists. That
>>>> means two minutes, a computer under maximum load, and the multimeter.
>>>> If the meter defines a power supply definitively good, then move on to
>>>> other suspects - and don't even look back.
>>>>
>>>> First are the four voltages when under maximum load from any one
>>>> orange, purple, red, and yellow wires. Then are the signal lines that
>>>> the supply and supply controller talk on - gray and green wires. Those
>>>> numbers necessary to confirm the supply, it controller, etc. .. so
>>>> that we can move on to other suspects.
>>>>
>>>> For example, if a supply controller has a defective driver, than all
>>>> power supplies will perform strangely.
>>>
>>> Poking inside a computer, especially the power wires, when the
>>> computer is on sends cold chills down my spine. However, maybe this
>>> would be helpful:
>>>
>>> Vcore1: 1.28V Vcore2: 1.58V +3.3V: 1.84V +5V: 5.00V
>>> +12V: 10.50V -12V: -0.10V -5: -0.23V +5V: 4.89V
>>> Vbat: 3.28V
>>>
>>> My motherboard requires the following from a power supply:
>>> +3.3V Must be "28A" or more.
>>> +5V Must be "28A" or more.
>>> +12V Must be "18A" or more.
>>> The rest are "Any."
>>>
>>> My Thermaltake 600W specs are as follows:
>>> +3.3V 30A
>>> +5V 28A
>>> +12V1 18A
>>> +12V2 18A
>>>
>>> And this power supply lists for over $100.00.
>> Ignore westom's verbal diarrhoea. Your -12 +3.3 and -5 voltages look all
>> wrong. Were these measured with a multimeter? Your computer should not
>> even be working with those levels. Are you absolutely 100% certain you
>> measured at the right points?
>>
>> Is ignore westoms ridiculous advice about the motherboard monitor "That
>> measurement device is not sufficiently accurate until calibrated with a
>> multimeter." This is utter *******s and I've never seen one yet that you
>> could calibrate. Sure they are not accurate but they are good enough for
>> the purpose.
>>
>> Lets look at some facts. We can be fairly certain that your brand new
>> PSU is working within reasonable limits because your computer is
>> working, so your readings above must be mistaken.
>>
>> Please check & verify your readings.
>
>
> I used a program called Speed Fan for these numbers.

I doubt it is working correctly for your board. As Leythos has already
said use the BIOS if it has that facility. If all else fails, take your
PC to an expert.

If you really need this computer and rely on it for work then you need
to take a professional attitude and not a hobbyist approach.