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Reboot, reboot, reboot

 
 
Lawrence D'Oliveiro
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      03-06-2009
Qt is a cross-platform GUI toolkit, used as the basis for KDE. From
<http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2009/03/first-look-qt-45-rocks-for-rapid-cross-platform-development.ars>:

It is recommended that you close all other applications before starting
Setup. This will make it possible to update relevant system files
without having to reboot your computer.

The Linux/Unix version doesn't require you to “close all other applications”
or reboot while installing/upgrading it, so why does the Dimdows version?

I blame Dimdows.

 
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Your Name
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      03-06-2009

"Lawrence D'Oliveiro" <(E-Mail Removed)_zealand> wrote in message
news:goqa9b$v4k$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Qt is a cross-platform GUI toolkit, used as the basis for KDE. From
>

<http://arstechnica.com/open-source/n...-45-rocks-for-
rapid-cross-platform-development.ars>:
>
> It is recommended that you close all other applications before

starting
> Setup. This will make it possible to update relevant system files
> without having to reboot your computer.
>
> The Linux/Unix version doesn't require you to “close all other

applications”
> or reboot while installing/upgrading it, so why does the Dimdows version?
>
> I blame Dimdows.


The easy solution is not to use Microsloth's bug-ridden, flawed garbage. I
avoid it like the plague unless I really, really, really have to use it
(like now thanks to ihug's hopeless "service"!).



 
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Lawrence D'Oliveiro
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Posts: n/a
 
      03-06-2009
In message <goqcah$qg$(E-Mail Removed)>, Your Name wrote:

> The easy solution is not to use Microsloth's bug-ridden, flawed garbage. I
> avoid it like the plague unless I really, really, really have to use it
> (like now thanks to ihug's hopeless "service"!).


I'm an ihug customer, and I've never had to use Windows. What sort of issue
is forcing you into it?

 
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Lawrence D'Oliveiro
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Posts: n/a
 
      03-06-2009
In message <(E-Mail Removed)>, David Goodwin wrote:

> The close programs/reboot thing is just because Windows NT locks the
> file for any program that is currently executing. As the file is
> locked, NT wont allow it to be opened for write access and as such an
> installer is unable to overwrite or update it.
>
> UNIX doesnt seem to bother with such locking and doesnt care if
> running programs are overwritten.


Unix/Linux systems go further than that: they allow you to delete files that
are currently in use by a running program.

This allows you, for example, to upgrade a currently-running server program
with a new version. After all the time-consuming file-copying is over, you
just stop the existing version, whereupon the old, obsoleted executable and
libraries actually disappear. Then, when you start the service again, it
immediately runs the new version of the files. Minimal downtime, and no
system restart.

 
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David Goodwin
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      03-06-2009
On Fri, 06 Mar 2009 17:54:03 +1300, Lawrence D'Oliveiro
<(E-Mail Removed)_zealand> wrote:

>Qt is a cross-platform GUI toolkit, used as the basis for KDE. From
><http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2009/03/first-look-qt-45-rocks-for-rapid-cross-platform-development.ars>:
>
> It is recommended that you close all other applications before starting
> Setup. This will make it possible to update relevant system files
> without having to reboot your computer.
>
>The Linux/Unix version doesn't require you to “close all other applications”
>or reboot while installing/upgrading it, so why does the Dimdows version?
>
>I blame Dimdows.


Standard practice I suppose. I never bother rebooting or closing
programs when installing a new version of Qt and as far as I can
remember, its never caused a problem.

The close programs/reboot thing is just because Windows NT locks the
file for any program that is currently executing. As the file is
locked, NT wont allow it to be opened for write access and as such an
installer is unable to overwrite or update it.

UNIX doesnt seem to bother with such locking and doesnt care if
running programs are overwritten.
 
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Cima
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Posts: n/a
 
      03-06-2009
On Fri, 6 Mar 2009 18:28:35 +1300, "Your Name" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>
>"Lawrence D'Oliveiro" <(E-Mail Removed)_zealand> wrote in message
>news:goqa9b$v4k$(E-Mail Removed)...
>> Qt is a cross-platform GUI toolkit, used as the basis for KDE. From
>>

><http://arstechnica.com/open-source/n...-45-rocks-for-
>rapid-cross-platform-development.ars>:
>>
>> It is recommended that you close all other applications before

>starting
>> Setup. This will make it possible to update relevant system files
>> without having to reboot your computer.
>>
>> The Linux/Unix version doesn't require you to “close all other

>applications?
>> or reboot while installing/upgrading it, so why does the Dimdows version?
>>
>> I blame Dimdows.

>
>The easy solution is not to use Microsloth's bug-ridden, flawed garbage. I
>avoid it like the plague unless I really, really, really have to use it
>(like now thanks to ihug's hopeless "service"!).
>
>

Heh, my super-duper Kubuntu box (the one with the uber-neat go no higher than
800x600 screen res -but that's another thread) told me I needed to reboot after
installing some updates yesterday. WTF? SURELY NOT.


 
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David Goodwin
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Posts: n/a
 
      03-06-2009
On Fri, 06 Mar 2009 20:20 +1300, Lawrence D'Oliveiro
<(E-Mail Removed)_zealand> wrote:

>In message <(E-Mail Removed)>, David Goodwin wrote:
>
>> The close programs/reboot thing is just because Windows NT locks the
>> file for any program that is currently executing. As the file is
>> locked, NT wont allow it to be opened for write access and as such an
>> installer is unable to overwrite or update it.
>>
>> UNIX doesnt seem to bother with such locking and doesnt care if
>> running programs are overwritten.

>
>Unix/Linux systems go further than that: they allow you to delete files that
>are currently in use by a running program.
>
>This allows you, for example, to upgrade a currently-running server program
>with a new version. After all the time-consuming file-copying is over, you
>just stop the existing version, whereupon the old, obsoleted executable and
>libraries actually disappear. Then, when you start the service again, it
>immediately runs the new version of the files. Minimal downtime, and no
>system restart.


Yeah - I never have understood why the executable image is locked
while it is running on Windows NT - UNIX just lets the file be
overwritten and I suppose VMS just increments the version number.

I imagine there is or was a good reason for Windows NT's behaviour
though - its not like it was designed by clueless people who had never
written a real operating system before.
 
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Lawrence D'Oliveiro
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Posts: n/a
 
      03-06-2009
In message <(E-Mail Removed)>, David Goodwin wrote:

> Yeah - I never have understood why the executable image is locked
> while it is running on Windows NT - UNIX just lets the file be
> overwritten ...


Not overwritten--replaced. The original file remains intact until it
disappears.

> I imagine there is or was a good reason for Windows NT's behaviour
> though - its not like it was designed by clueless people who had never
> written a real operating system before.


It was masterminded by Dave Cutler, who was also one of the brains behind
VMS. But for some reason NT never carried over VMS's file version numbering.
So the VMS approach of letting you create a new version of the file, while
the existing running process continues to access the old version, was never
available to them.

 
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Lawrence D'Oliveiro
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Posts: n/a
 
      03-06-2009
In message <(E-Mail Removed)>, Cima wrote:

> Heh, my super-duper Kubuntu box (the one with the uber-neat go no higher
> than 800x600 screen res -but that's another thread) told me I needed to
> reboot after installing some updates yesterday.


How many updates, and how many reboots?

When I upgraded my Eee from Ubuntu Hardy (8.04) to Intrepid (8.10) a few
months ago, it downloaded over 200MB of new packages, and required just one
reboot.


 
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Your Name
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      03-07-2009

"Lawrence D'Oliveiro" <(E-Mail Removed)_zealand> wrote in message
news:goqg89$2tt$(E-Mail Removed)...
> In message <goqcah$qg$(E-Mail Removed)>, Your Name wrote:
>
> > The easy solution is not to use Microsloth's bug-ridden, flawed garbage.

I
> > avoid it like the plague unless I really, really, really have to use it
> > (like now thanks to ihug's hopeless "service"!).

>
> I'm an ihug customer, and I've never had to use Windows. What sort of

issue
> is forcing you into it?


There's never been any mention of it on ihug's / Vodafone's useless Network
Status page, but ihug's servers will not authenticate Mac OS 9 dial-up
customers, but the problem only affects some dial-up numbers. This means I
can't even login via the national number, Auckland local number or Hamilton
local number, but I can login if I want to pay for a toll call to use the
Whangarei local number. It is a problem that has occurred about four times
over the last couple of years and has been fixed before, but this time they
simply refuse to fix it (the new Vodafone owners are simply too lazy or too
stupid to fix it). I was told I either have to use Whangarei's number or
upgrade my computer, and frankly that's extremely poor service. This means
the only real way I can use the Internet is via this old Windoze 2000
computer ... at least until I ditch hopeless Vodafone.



 
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