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Newbie question so bear with me. I'm wondering if there is a
preferred underlying structure for encoding menus (either vertical or
horizontal) of navigation links. I've seen references to using tables
and also to using lists (using CSS to make them not look like lists).
So what's recommended and what is to be avoided? Or is the question
itself malformed?

Mike

Mike Silva wrote:
> Newbie question so bear with me. I'm wondering if there is a
> preferred underlying structure for encoding menus (either vertical or
> horizontal) of navigation links. I've seen references to using tables
> and also to using lists (using CSS to make them not look like lists).
> So what's recommended and what is to be avoided? Or is the question
> itself malformed?

Well if a nav menu is a *list* of links, then a *list* seems link a
reasonable choice. How it is styled is up to you and the page's
requirements.

Tables have been used because of many factors, mostly because of the
lack of CSS support in legacy browsers and other times because of legacy
mindset of designers. In defense, some effects can problematic with IE,
most can be overcome.

--
Take care,

Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com

"Mike Silva" <> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:561b7567-1f1e-438c-8e67-...
> Newbie question so bear with me. I'm wondering if
> cut

I am a newbie too, and in my website I have used tables and css after the help of some friend in this news group.
My "buttons" contain texts and/or images. This is the site:

http://www.tortebomboniere.com/bombo...ourcake01.html

Paul

Mike Silva wrote:

> Newbie question so bear with me. I'm wondering if there is a
> preferred underlying structure for encoding menus (either vertical or
> horizontal) of navigation links. I've seen references to using tables
> and also to using lists (using CSS to make them not look like lists).
> So what's recommended and what is to be avoided? Or is the question
> itself malformed?
>
> Mike

CSS/divs usually work well, but I've seen some issues in some browsers
and had to revert to using tables at times. Of course, out of all of
the stuff I do, I'm not a designer type of person and I only care that
the layout works for most browsers and people without requiring
anything that could make any portion of the site not work (i.e., it
should work in even text browsers), so take that for what it's worth.
--
Tim Greer, CEO/Founder/CTO, BurlyHost.com, Inc.
Shared Hosting, Reseller Hosting, Dedicated & Semi-Dedicated servers
and Custom Hosting. 24/7 support, 30 day guarantee, secure servers.
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In article <7egql.6752$>,
Tim Greer <> wrote:

> Mike Silva wrote:
>
> > Newbie question so bear with me. I'm wondering if there is a
> > preferred underlying structure for encoding menus (either vertical or
> > horizontal) of navigation links. I've seen references to using tables
> > and also to using lists (using CSS to make them not look like lists).
> > So what's recommended and what is to be avoided? Or is the question
> > itself malformed?
> >
>
> CSS/divs usually work well, but I've seen some issues in some browsers
> and had to revert to using tables at times. Of course, out of all of
> the stuff I do, I'm not a designer type of person and I only care that
> the layout works for most browsers and people without requiring
> anything that could make any portion of the site not work (i.e., it
> should work in even text browsers), so take that for what it's worth.

Well, what is it worth? <g>

Let's see now. Why would you fail to mention the one element that is
almost exclusively used for navigational displays by good web designers?
The list element!

The reason it is best to use a list where it looks good cross browser is
that it is the simplest, most specialist element for the job. Tables are
not necessarily incorrect for displaying lists because tables are
essentially a tool for organising lists. But it is wrong to use them
when the specialist list tool will do. A bit like it is wasteful and
cumbersome in to use the truck to ferry grandma to church when you could
drive her in the car (or push her in a wheeled chair).

The specialist tools of lists have certain advantages of flexibility
that tables do not have. List items, for example, in a horiz list can
wrap and this is often a very good thing. They can also be made not to
wrap, no need for a table yet on this score! They have in built nifty
features like default bulleting which you might want (but which are
often turned off for navigation).

Jonathan Little's earlier post has it right and he hints at why
sometimes tables have been used.

--
dorayme

dorayme wrote:

> Well, what is it worth? <g>

Not too much.

> Let's see now. Why would you fail to mention the one element that is
> almost exclusively used for navigational displays by good web
> designers? The list element!

I was speaking in reply to the tables comment, but yeah, if it'll work
better as a list, then that's the way to go.
--
Tim Greer, CEO/Founder/CTO, BurlyHost.com, Inc.
Shared Hosting, Reseller Hosting, Dedicated & Semi-Dedicated servers
and Custom Hosting. 24/7 support, 30 day guarantee, secure servers.
Industry's most experienced staff! -- Web Hosting With Muscle!

On Feb 28, 12:22*pm, Mike Silva <snarflem...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Newbie question so bear with me. *I'm wondering if there is a
> preferred underlying structure for encoding menus (either vertical or
> horizontal) of navigation links. *I've seen references to using tables
> and also to using lists (using CSS to make them not look like lists).
> So what's recommended and what is to be avoided? *Or is the question
> itself malformed?

OK then, I gather that lists are a good solution, and tables are an
acceptable fallback solution. I just wanted to get some confidence
that what I was reading was in the mainstream and not just one
person's quirky viewpoint - after all, to somebody without knowledge
and experience, anything can be made to sound reasonable. :-\

Thanks to all.

Mike

While the city slept, Mike Silva feverishly typed:

> OK then, I gather that lists are a good solution,

Yes they are.

> and tables are an acceptable fallback solution.

No they're not.

Tables are used to present tabular data. Your list of links is *not* tabular
data, it is a *list* and should be marked up as such.

It really isn't that hard to produce some really funky looking menus, just
using an unordered list and some CSS. Have a google and have fun
experimenting

Cheers,
Nige

--
Nigel Moss | http://www.nigenet.org.uk
Email not valid. - take the dog out!
"You're mother ate my dog!", "Not all of him..."

In article <>,
"nice.guy.nige" <> wrote:

> While the city slept, Mike Silva feverishly typed:
>
> > OK then, I gather that lists are a good solution,
>
> Yes they are.
>
> > and tables are an acceptable fallback solution.
>
> No they're not.

This is simply untrue.

--
dorayme

"dorayme" <> wrote in message
news:doraymeRidThis-...
> In article <>,
> "nice.guy.nige" <> wrote:
>
>> While the city slept, Mike Silva feverishly typed:
>>
>> > OK then, I gather that lists are a good solution,
>>
>> Yes they are.
>>
>> > and tables are an acceptable fallback solution.
>>
>> No they're not.
>
> This is simply untrue.
>
> --
> dorayme

I'm with Nige on this one... a menu is a list of items from which the user
may choose, and *semantically* *should* be coded as a list. If one
subscribes adheres to the 'semantic markup' ethos, then tables are not
acceptable for menu construction, IMHO.