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Re: Bad 7200.11 Seagate Hard Drives, what to get now.?

 
 
Stephen Worthington
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Posts: n/a
 
      02-28-2009
On Sat, 28 Feb 2009 17:29:46 +1300, OZZY Boy <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:


>Need to replace a Failed Seagate HD but with all the bad reports of 7200.11 drives what now do I
>get the 2 shops that I looked at only had 7200.11 drives..


There is a problem where recent Seagate drives fail but can be fixed
by installing the latest firmware. They just stop working, but after
installing the new firmware all the data is still there. So check if
your failed drive is one of them.

The 7200.11 drives up to 1 Tbyte are fine, as long as they are updated
to the latest firmware (SD1A). I have done all my 7200.11 drives now,
with no problems updating them. The ST31500341AS 1.5 Tbyte drive I
have (CC1H firmware) is still a problem for different reasons. It has
very slow write speed if I copy large files (> 600 Mibytes) to it,
where the ST31000340AS drive (SD1A) has excellent speed at all times.
 
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eyes
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Posts: n/a
 
      02-28-2009
Stephen Worthington wrote:
> The ST31500341AS 1.5 Tbyte drive I
> have (CC1H firmware) is still a problem for different reasons. It has
> very slow write speed if I copy large files (> 600 Mibytes) to it,
> where the ST31000340AS drive (SD1A) has excellent speed at all times.


Just installed a Seagate 1.5 TB on a new PC. Everything seemed fine
until I noticed very slow writes. Turns out the BIOS was misconfigured
by default. All SATA controllers were set to IDE mode and then OS
detected the HD as PIO only.

Fixed up the BIOS and all speed problems went away.

I didn't do any speed tests, but have managed to do around 30MB/s
network transfers once configured correctly.
 
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Lawrence D'Oliveiro
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Posts: n/a
 
      02-28-2009
In message <(E-Mail Removed)>, Stephen Worthington
wrote:

> The ST31500341AS 1.5 Tbyte drive I
> have (CC1H firmware) is still a problem for different reasons. It has
> very slow write speed if I copy large files (> 600 Mibytes) to it,
> where the ST31000340AS drive (SD1A) has excellent speed at all times.


Sounds like an OS issue. The drive can't tell whether you're copying small
or large files to it, all it deals with is sectors.

 
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Stephen Worthington
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Posts: n/a
 
      02-28-2009
On Sat, 28 Feb 2009 23:26:22 +1300, Lawrence D'Oliveiro
<(E-Mail Removed)_zealand> wrote:

>In message <(E-Mail Removed)>, Stephen Worthington
>wrote:
>
>> The ST31500341AS 1.5 Tbyte drive I
>> have (CC1H firmware) is still a problem for different reasons. It has
>> very slow write speed if I copy large files (> 600 Mibytes) to it,
>> where the ST31000340AS drive (SD1A) has excellent speed at all times.

>
>Sounds like an OS issue. The drive can't tell whether you're copying small
>or large files to it, all it deals with is sectors.


The information I have gleaned from the web says otherwise.
Apparently, these drives have firmware that takes up to 30 seconds to
respond after a command to flush the drive cache. This can cause some
OSes (Linux and Vista in particular) to think that the drive has died
under some circumstances, and also causes slow speeds whenever that
command is used. Apparently XP does not use the flush command in
normal operation, so it does not see this problem. Personally, I can
not see how it can take up to 30 s to flush - that is just crappy
firmware on Seagate's part. But apparently 30 s is still within the
specification for IDE commands, so they are not volunteering to fix
it. And I can also not see the need to do a flush in the middle of
transferring a file - that seems to be a stupidity on Vista's part.
 
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Stephen Worthington
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Posts: n/a
 
      02-28-2009
On Sat, 28 Feb 2009 21:46:45 +1300, eyes <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Stephen Worthington wrote:
>> The ST31500341AS 1.5 Tbyte drive I
>> have (CC1H firmware) is still a problem for different reasons. It has
>> very slow write speed if I copy large files (> 600 Mibytes) to it,
>> where the ST31000340AS drive (SD1A) has excellent speed at all times.

>
>Just installed a Seagate 1.5 TB on a new PC. Everything seemed fine
>until I noticed very slow writes. Turns out the BIOS was misconfigured
>by default. All SATA controllers were set to IDE mode and then OS
>detected the HD as PIO only.
>
>Fixed up the BIOS and all speed problems went away.
>
>I didn't do any speed tests, but have managed to do around 30MB/s
>network transfers once configured correctly.


My problem is not the BIOS settings - I am using AHCI mode, and the
all my drives are using Ultra DMA Mode 6 according to the device
driver. Hard Disk Sentinel reports that the SATA interface is running
at 300 Mbyte/s, and the transfer speeds for smaller files are fine -
well over 30 Mbyte/s.

Some times for copying a 3,855,116,288 byte DVD image between my
drives using the COPY command under TCMD 10.0:

1) ST31000340AS to ST3500320AS: 57.61 s (63.81 Mbytes/s).
2) ST3500320AS to ST31000340AS: 37.41 s (98.27 Mbytes/s).
3) ST31000340AS to ST31500341AS: 375.76 s (9.78 Mbytes/s)!
4) ST31500341AS to ST31000340AS: 116.57 s (31.54 Mbytes/s).
5) ST31500341AS to ST3500320AS: 124.4 s (29.55 Mbytes/s)

The above are not very well controlled benchmarks, as I had lots of
software running and I also have 4 Gibytes of RAM, which means that
Vista will cache a lot of even a large file. But the COPY command
seems to not return until the cache has been flushed, and the times
are pretty repeatable (within 1 or 2 seconds normally), so I think
they are reasonably accurate. The 500 Gbyte drive is fast. The 1
Tbyte drive screams along. But the 1.5 Tbyte drive, which has similar
specs to the 1 Tbyte drive and should perform similarly, instead is
dead slow. And you can see it starts off reasonably fast, similar to
its read performance of about 30 Mbytes/s, then slows down as more
data is transferred. Its transfer speed drops suddenly in the middle
of the COPY, then continues at the slow speed.
 
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Lawrence D'Oliveiro
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Posts: n/a
 
      02-28-2009
In message <(E-Mail Removed)>, Stephen Worthington
wrote:

> Apparently, these drives have firmware that takes up to 30 seconds to
> respond after a command to flush the drive cache.


Another reason why drives shouldn't be doing caching.

 
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~misfit~
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      02-28-2009
Somewhere on teh intarwebs Stephen Worthington wrote:
> On Sat, 28 Feb 2009 21:46:45 +1300, eyes <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> Stephen Worthington wrote:
>>> The ST31500341AS 1.5 Tbyte drive I
>>> have (CC1H firmware) is still a problem for different reasons. It
>>> has very slow write speed if I copy large files (> 600 Mibytes) to
>>> it, where the ST31000340AS drive (SD1A) has excellent speed at all
>>> times.

>>
>> Just installed a Seagate 1.5 TB on a new PC. Everything seemed fine
>> until I noticed very slow writes. Turns out the BIOS was
>> misconfigured by default. All SATA controllers were set to IDE mode
>> and then OS detected the HD as PIO only.
>>
>> Fixed up the BIOS and all speed problems went away.
>>
>> I didn't do any speed tests, but have managed to do around 30MB/s
>> network transfers once configured correctly.

>
> My problem is not the BIOS settings - I am using AHCI mode, and the
> all my drives are using Ultra DMA Mode 6 according to the device
> driver.


I can't seem to find that info under XP Pro SP3 on my desktop machine.
Unlike older IDE interfaces where it gave me the mode the drive was running
in (under the controller entry) all I'm seeing is "Intel(R) ICH9 SATA AHCI
Controller" and, under general, it says "This device is working properly."

HDS reports that the 1.5TB 7200.11 CC1G firmware (I upgraded it) disk is
running at ATA Revision 7 with active UDMA mode being 300 MB/s. (It reports
the same for the other disk I currently have installed, a 320MB 7200.10
disk.)

> Hard Disk Sentinel reports that the SATA interface is running
> at 300 Mbyte/s, and the transfer speeds for smaller files are fine -
> well over 30 Mbyte/s.
>
> Some times for copying a 3,855,116,288 byte DVD image between my
> drives using the COPY command under TCMD 10.0:
>
> 1) ST31000340AS to ST3500320AS: 57.61 s (63.81 Mbytes/s).
> 2) ST3500320AS to ST31000340AS: 37.41 s (98.27 Mbytes/s).
> 3) ST31000340AS to ST31500341AS: 375.76 s (9.78 Mbytes/s)!
> 4) ST31500341AS to ST31000340AS: 116.57 s (31.54 Mbytes/s).
> 5) ST31500341AS to ST3500320AS: 124.4 s (29.55 Mbytes/s)


So it's write speed you're interested in? I have the aforementioned fixed
320GB disk and a hot-swap caddy. I'll try copying a folder from the fixed
disk to the various SATA disks I have and timing it.

Folder is 4.45GB and contains one compressed disk image. Using 'copy' and
'paste' command in XP P SP3. All drives tested already have data on them to
varying degrees so it's a crap shoot as to what part of the physical disk
structure it's being written to.

To ST31500341AS: 74s (61.57 Mbytes/s)
To ST3500320AS: 76s (59.95 Mbytes/s)
To ST3320620AS: 77s (59.17 Mbytes/s)

And, just because I have it here, and old 7200.9 200GB SATA I disk (that's
nearly full).

To ST3200822AS: No result

Odd. XP barfed on that saying there wasn't enough disk space even though
there's over 40GB free. Perhaps it's due to the drive being formatted as a
single FAT32 partition? I tried several times, even rebooting the computer
with the HDD in situ (it's in a hot-swap bay, as were all the others
tested).

> The above are not very well controlled benchmarks, as I had lots of
> software running and I also have 4 Gibytes of RAM, which means that
> Vista will cache a lot of even a large file. But the COPY command
> seems to not return until the cache has been flushed, and the times
> are pretty repeatable (within 1 or 2 seconds normally), so I think
> they are reasonably accurate. The 500 Gbyte drive is fast. The 1
> Tbyte drive screams along. But the 1.5 Tbyte drive, which has similar
> specs to the 1 Tbyte drive and should perform similarly, instead is
> dead slow. And you can see it starts off reasonably fast, similar to
> its read performance of about 30 Mbytes/s, then slows down as more
> data is transferred. Its transfer speed drops suddenly in the middle
> of the COPY, then continues at the slow speed.


My tests were very unscientific too and should be considered as such.

The above tests bear out what I've observed in general usage, all the HDDs
seem about the same speed. Perhaps you should upgrade the firmware in your
1.5TB drive?

Cheers,
--
Shaun.

"Build a man a fire, and he`ll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and
he`ll be warm for the rest of his life." Terry Pratchett, Jingo.


 
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Stephen Worthington
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      02-28-2009
On Sun, 1 Mar 2009 10:18:46 +1300, "ofn01" <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>
>"Stephen Worthington" <(E-Mail Removed)34.nz56.remove_numbers> wrote in
>message news(E-Mail Removed)...
>> On Sat, 28 Feb 2009 21:46:45 +1300, eyes <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>
>>>Stephen Worthington wrote:
>>>> The ST31500341AS 1.5 Tbyte drive I
>>>> have (CC1H firmware) is still a problem for different reasons. It has
>>>> very slow write speed if I copy large files (> 600 Mibytes) to it,
>>>> where the ST31000340AS drive (SD1A) has excellent speed at all times.
>>>
>>>Just installed a Seagate 1.5 TB on a new PC. Everything seemed fine
>>>until I noticed very slow writes. Turns out the BIOS was misconfigured
>>>by default. All SATA controllers were set to IDE mode and then OS
>>>detected the HD as PIO only.
>>>
>>>Fixed up the BIOS and all speed problems went away.
>>>
>>>I didn't do any speed tests, but have managed to do around 30MB/s
>>>network transfers once configured correctly.

>>
>> My problem is not the BIOS settings - I am using AHCI mode, and the
>> all my drives are using Ultra DMA Mode 6 according to the device
>> driver. Hard Disk Sentinel reports that the SATA interface is running
>> at 300 Mbyte/s, and the transfer speeds for smaller files are fine -
>> well over 30 Mbyte/s.
>>

>
>Are you sure you're in AHCI mode? In Device Manager it should say that the
>controller is AHCI. Having UDMA6 indicates IDE mode (emulated for SATA
>drives)


Yes, it is in AHCI mode in the BIOS and the controller driver reports
itself as "Intel IHC9 6 Port SATA AHCI Controller - 2922". The
individual SATA ports show up as "ATA Channel <x>", and on those it
says "ATA Disk Ultra DMA Mode 6" on the Advanced Settings tab for
each port occupied by a hard disk.
 
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Stephen Worthington
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Posts: n/a
 
      03-01-2009
On Sun, 1 Mar 2009 12:56:25 +1300, "~misfit~"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Somewhere on teh intarwebs Stephen Worthington wrote:
>> On Sat, 28 Feb 2009 21:46:45 +1300, eyes <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>
>>> Stephen Worthington wrote:
>>>> The ST31500341AS 1.5 Tbyte drive I
>>>> have (CC1H firmware) is still a problem for different reasons. It
>>>> has very slow write speed if I copy large files (> 600 Mibytes) to
>>>> it, where the ST31000340AS drive (SD1A) has excellent speed at all
>>>> times.
>>>
>>> Just installed a Seagate 1.5 TB on a new PC. Everything seemed fine
>>> until I noticed very slow writes. Turns out the BIOS was
>>> misconfigured by default. All SATA controllers were set to IDE mode
>>> and then OS detected the HD as PIO only.
>>>
>>> Fixed up the BIOS and all speed problems went away.
>>>
>>> I didn't do any speed tests, but have managed to do around 30MB/s
>>> network transfers once configured correctly.

>>
>> My problem is not the BIOS settings - I am using AHCI mode, and the
>> all my drives are using Ultra DMA Mode 6 according to the device
>> driver.

>
>I can't seem to find that info under XP Pro SP3 on my desktop machine.
>Unlike older IDE interfaces where it gave me the mode the drive was running
>in (under the controller entry) all I'm seeing is "Intel(R) ICH9 SATA AHCI
>Controller" and, under general, it says "This device is working properly."
>
>HDS reports that the 1.5TB 7200.11 CC1G firmware (I upgraded it) disk is
>running at ATA Revision 7 with active UDMA mode being 300 MB/s. (It reports
>the same for the other disk I currently have installed, a 320MB 7200.10
>disk.)
>
>> Hard Disk Sentinel reports that the SATA interface is running
>> at 300 Mbyte/s, and the transfer speeds for smaller files are fine -
>> well over 30 Mbyte/s.
>>
>> Some times for copying a 3,855,116,288 byte DVD image between my
>> drives using the COPY command under TCMD 10.0:
>>
>> 1) ST31000340AS to ST3500320AS: 57.61 s (63.81 Mbytes/s).
>> 2) ST3500320AS to ST31000340AS: 37.41 s (98.27 Mbytes/s).
>> 3) ST31000340AS to ST31500341AS: 375.76 s (9.78 Mbytes/s)!
>> 4) ST31500341AS to ST31000340AS: 116.57 s (31.54 Mbytes/s).
>> 5) ST31500341AS to ST3500320AS: 124.4 s (29.55 Mbytes/s)

>
>So it's write speed you're interested in? I have the aforementioned fixed
>320GB disk and a hot-swap caddy. I'll try copying a folder from the fixed
>disk to the various SATA disks I have and timing it.
>
>Folder is 4.45GB and contains one compressed disk image. Using 'copy' and
>'paste' command in XP P SP3. All drives tested already have data on them to
>varying degrees so it's a crap shoot as to what part of the physical disk
>structure it's being written to.
>
>To ST31500341AS: 74s (61.57 Mbytes/s)
>To ST3500320AS: 76s (59.95 Mbytes/s)
>To ST3320620AS: 77s (59.17 Mbytes/s)


Those numbers are pretty much what I would expect, except perhaps that
the ST31500341AS might have been a bit faster, like my ST31000340AS.

>And, just because I have it here, and old 7200.9 200GB SATA I disk (that's
>nearly full).
>
>To ST3200822AS: No result
>
>Odd. XP barfed on that saying there wasn't enough disk space even though
>there's over 40GB free. Perhaps it's due to the drive being formatted as a
>single FAT32 partition? I tried several times, even rebooting the computer
>with the HDD in situ (it's in a hot-swap bay, as were all the others
>tested).


FAT32 has a maximum file size of 4 Gibytes - so your test file is too
big.

>> The above are not very well controlled benchmarks, as I had lots of
>> software running and I also have 4 Gibytes of RAM, which means that
>> Vista will cache a lot of even a large file. But the COPY command
>> seems to not return until the cache has been flushed, and the times
>> are pretty repeatable (within 1 or 2 seconds normally), so I think
>> they are reasonably accurate. The 500 Gbyte drive is fast. The 1
>> Tbyte drive screams along. But the 1.5 Tbyte drive, which has similar
>> specs to the 1 Tbyte drive and should perform similarly, instead is
>> dead slow. And you can see it starts off reasonably fast, similar to
>> its read performance of about 30 Mbytes/s, then slows down as more
>> data is transferred. Its transfer speed drops suddenly in the middle
>> of the COPY, then continues at the slow speed.

>
>My tests were very unscientific too and should be considered as such.
>
>The above tests bear out what I've observed in general usage, all the HDDs
>seem about the same speed. Perhaps you should upgrade the firmware in your
>1.5TB drive?


It is already CC1H. I returned my original CC1G drive under warranty
on Seagate's recommendation, as it ran even slower! But CC1H does not
seem to fix the problem either. I think I will need to talk to
Seagate again.

The reason you are getting reasonable speeds is that apparently XP, in
normal use, does not use the IDE "flush cache" command that takes up
to 30 s to respond on this drive. Vista and Linux do use "flush
cache".

>Cheers,

 
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Stephen Worthington
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      03-01-2009
On Sun, 1 Mar 2009 15:49:30 +1300, "ofn01" <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>
>"Stephen Worthington" <(E-Mail Removed)34.nz56.remove_numbers> wrote in
>message news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>> On Sun, 1 Mar 2009 10:18:46 +1300, "ofn01" <(E-Mail Removed)>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Stephen Worthington" <(E-Mail Removed)34.nz56.remove_numbers> wrote in
>>>message news(E-Mail Removed)...
>>>> On Sat, 28 Feb 2009 21:46:45 +1300, eyes <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Stephen Worthington wrote:
>>>>>> The ST31500341AS 1.5 Tbyte drive I
>>>>>> have (CC1H firmware) is still a problem for different reasons. It has
>>>>>> very slow write speed if I copy large files (> 600 Mibytes) to it,
>>>>>> where the ST31000340AS drive (SD1A) has excellent speed at all times.
>>>>>
>>>>>Just installed a Seagate 1.5 TB on a new PC. Everything seemed fine
>>>>>until I noticed very slow writes. Turns out the BIOS was misconfigured
>>>>>by default. All SATA controllers were set to IDE mode and then OS
>>>>>detected the HD as PIO only.
>>>>>
>>>>>Fixed up the BIOS and all speed problems went away.
>>>>>
>>>>>I didn't do any speed tests, but have managed to do around 30MB/s
>>>>>network transfers once configured correctly.
>>>>
>>>> My problem is not the BIOS settings - I am using AHCI mode, and the
>>>> all my drives are using Ultra DMA Mode 6 according to the device
>>>> driver. Hard Disk Sentinel reports that the SATA interface is running
>>>> at 300 Mbyte/s, and the transfer speeds for smaller files are fine -
>>>> well over 30 Mbyte/s.
>>>>
>>>
>>>Are you sure you're in AHCI mode? In Device Manager it should say that the
>>>controller is AHCI. Having UDMA6 indicates IDE mode (emulated for SATA
>>>drives)

>>
>> Yes, it is in AHCI mode in the BIOS and the controller driver reports
>> itself as "Intel IHC9 6 Port SATA AHCI Controller - 2922". The
>> individual SATA ports show up as "ATA Channel <x>", and on those it
>> says "ATA Disk Ultra DMA Mode 6" on the Advanced Settings tab for
>> each port occupied by a hard disk.

>
>Which driver is it using - iastor.sys or msahci.sys ?
>


msahci.sys is what the "Intel IHC9 6 Port SATA AHCI Controller - 2922"
driver reports, along with atapi.sys, ataport.sys and pciidex.sys.
 
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