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OT: Union Organizing Question

 
 
Charlie Darwin
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Posts: n/a
 
      02-27-2009
Under a Blanket Purchase Agreement, a US Government agency contracts with a
large number of independent professionals (most of whom are self-employed,
in private practice and are spread across the county) to provide variably
scheduled contract services to hundreds of local agency offices across the
country.

Is there a way these people can organize and seek union representation?


 
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Whiskers
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Posts: n/a
 
      02-27-2009
On 2009-02-27, Charlie Darwin <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> Under a Blanket Purchase Agreement, a US Government agency contracts with a
> large number of independent professionals (most of whom are self-employed,
> in private practice and are spread across the county) to provide variably
> scheduled contract services to hundreds of local agency offices across the
> country.
>
> Is there a way these people can organize and seek union representation?


If they can make contact and communicate with each other then there's
nothing to stop them from trying to negotiate 'collectively'. Of course,
there may be contract conditions that attempt to prevent them from doing
that, and when it comes to the crunch the employer can simply tell them to
take a running jump and look for less bolshy contractors.

They might open themselves to accusations of 'anti-competitive actions',
too.

From what I've read about the USA, whoever can hire the best lawyers is
likely to get whatever they want. Eventually.

--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
-- Whiskers
-- ~~~~~~~~~~
 
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Charlie Darwin
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Posts: n/a
 
      02-28-2009
"Whiskers" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> On 2009-02-27, Charlie Darwin <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>> Under a Blanket Purchase Agreement, a US Government agency contracts with
>> a
>> large number of independent professionals (most of whom are
>> self-employed,
>> in private practice and are spread across the county) to provide variably
>> scheduled contract services to hundreds of local agency offices across
>> the
>> country.
>>
>> Is there a way these people can organize and seek union representation?

>
> If they can make contact and communicate with each other then there's
> nothing to stop them from trying to negotiate 'collectively'. Of course,
> there may be contract conditions that attempt to prevent them from doing
> that, and when it comes to the crunch the employer can simply tell them to
> take a running jump and look for less bolshy contractors.
>
> They might open themselves to accusations of 'anti-competitive actions',
> too.
>
> From what I've read about the USA, whoever can hire the best lawyers is
> likely to get whatever they want. Eventually.
>
> --
> -- ^^^^^^^^^^
> -- Whiskers
> -- ~~~~~~~~~~



Nothing bolshy about this one at all, nor do I think there would be an anti
competitive aspect to it either.

The agency puts out a "take it or leave it" fee schedule and work-terms
document. You can sign-on as-is--- or take a hike. And FWIW, they haven't
raised the fees in at least 23 years!

Their fees at this point are about 25%-30% of the usual and customary going
commercial rate for this kind of skilled work by a licensed professional.
Hence, my interest in seeking some power in numbers to negotiate a better
fee!


 
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Charlie Darwin
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      02-28-2009
"PeeCee" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:go9qsd$2fhd$(E-Mail Removed)...
> "Charlie Darwin" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:go9lne$ek$(E-Mail Removed)...
>> Under a Blanket Purchase Agreement, a US Government agency contracts with
>> a large number of independent professionals (most of whom are
>> self-employed, in private practice and are spread across the county) to
>> provide variably scheduled contract services to hundreds of local agency
>> offices across the country.
>>
>> Is there a way these people can organize and seek union representation?
>>
>>

>
>
>
> All it takes is for someone to get off their ass and do it.
> Doesn't have to be a 'Union' per see but can be a 'Professional'
> association.
> P.


Interesting idea...and worth a look.


 
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chuckcar
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Posts: n/a
 
      02-28-2009
"Charlie Darwin" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
news:go9lne$ek$(E-Mail Removed):

> Under a Blanket Purchase Agreement, a US Government agency contracts
> with a large number of independent professionals (most of whom are
> self-employed, in private practice and are spread across the county) to
> provide variably scheduled contract services to hundreds of local agency
> offices across the country.
>
> Is there a way these people can organize and seek union representation?
>

Depends on how long the average contract is. If you're talking about 3
months, it's pretty pointless now isn't it?


--
(setq (chuck nil) car(chuck) )
 
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Whiskers
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Posts: n/a
 
      02-28-2009
On 2009-02-28, Charlie Darwin <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> "Whiskers" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>> On 2009-02-27, Charlie Darwin <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:


[...]

> Nothing bolshy about this one at all, nor do I think there would be an anti
> competitive aspect to it either.
>
> The agency puts out a "take it or leave it" fee schedule and work-terms
> document. You can sign-on as-is--- or take a hike. And FWIW, they haven't
> raised the fees in at least 23 years!
>
> Their fees at this point are about 25%-30% of the usual and customary going
> commercial rate for this kind of skilled work by a licensed professional.
> Hence, my interest in seeking some power in numbers to negotiate a better
> fee!


So the remuneration is inadeqaute in your opinion? In that case the
obvious choice is to stand aside. If everyone else in that field also
feels that the pay isn't worth the effort then the agency won't get any
contractors and will have to come up with a more attractive offer. Or
perhaps they are content with the sort of person who will work for a
quarter of the 'going rate'; in which case, it isn't really your problem,
is it?

Being a 'licensed professional' has never been a guarantee of good pay, or
of any work. No matter how much skill is involved. Presumably there is
already a 'professional body' of some sort in which members of that
profession can get together to do such things as eject members whose
conduct (such as working for too little, or failing to maintain the
standard of work) falls below what the others agree is an acceptable
minimum.

If a government agency is knowingly employing contractors who have been
ejected from their professional body for such misconduct, then that
sounds like political dynamite. Likewise if the licensing authority
continues to grant licenses to such people.

--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
-- Whiskers
-- ~~~~~~~~~~
 
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NotMe
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Posts: n/a
 
      03-01-2009


"Charlie Darwin" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:go9v7f$d9v$(E-Mail Removed)...
: "Whiskers" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
: news:(E-Mail Removed)...
: > On 2009-02-27, Charlie Darwin <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
: >> Under a Blanket Purchase Agreement, a US Government agency contracts
with
: >> a
: >> large number of independent professionals (most of whom are
: >> self-employed,
: >> in private practice and are spread across the county) to provide
variably
: >> scheduled contract services to hundreds of local agency offices across
: >> the
: >> country.
: >>
: >> Is there a way these people can organize and seek union representation?
: >
: > If they can make contact and communicate with each other then there's
: > nothing to stop them from trying to negotiate 'collectively'. Of
course,
: > there may be contract conditions that attempt to prevent them from doing
: > that, and when it comes to the crunch the employer can simply tell them
to
: > take a running jump and look for less bolshy contractors.
: >
: > They might open themselves to accusations of 'anti-competitive actions',
: > too.
: >
: > From what I've read about the USA, whoever can hire the best lawyers is
: > likely to get whatever they want. Eventually.
: >
: > --
: > -- ^^^^^^^^^^
: > -- Whiskers
: > -- ~~~~~~~~~~
:
:
: Nothing bolshy about this one at all, nor do I think there would be an
anti
: competitive aspect to it either.
:
: The agency puts out a "take it or leave it" fee schedule and work-terms
: document. You can sign-on as-is--- or take a hike. And FWIW, they haven't
: raised the fees in at least 23 years!
:
: Their fees at this point are about 25%-30% of the usual and customary
going
: commercial rate for this kind of skilled work by a licensed professional.
: Hence, my interest in seeking some power in numbers to negotiate a better
: fee!

If enough providers stop accepting the jobs the fees the price offered will
go up.

You can form an association or guild and lobby your congress critter but we
all know what that takes.

I watch this happen in NC. Government moaned and groaned and started to
bring in contractors from out of state except the expense of travel and per
diem pushed the cost over enough that they upped the rate.

As for me, when things were slow (aka I have nothing better to do) I take
the deal when it's not I don't. FWIW I do then to catch up on the addendums
to the contract as these tend to provided a lock on sourcing.


 
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NotMe
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      03-01-2009

"Whiskers" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
: On 2009-02-28, Charlie Darwin <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
: > "Whiskers" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
: > news:(E-Mail Removed)...
: >> On 2009-02-27, Charlie Darwin <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
:
: [...]
:
: > Nothing bolshy about this one at all, nor do I think there would be an
anti
: > competitive aspect to it either.
: >
: > The agency puts out a "take it or leave it" fee schedule and work-terms
: > document. You can sign-on as-is--- or take a hike. And FWIW, they
haven't
: > raised the fees in at least 23 years!
: >
: > Their fees at this point are about 25%-30% of the usual and customary
going
: > commercial rate for this kind of skilled work by a licensed
professional.
: > Hence, my interest in seeking some power in numbers to negotiate a
better
: > fee!
:
: So the remuneration is inadeqaute in your opinion? In that case the
: obvious choice is to stand aside. If everyone else in that field also
: feels that the pay isn't worth the effort then the agency won't get any
: contractors and will have to come up with a more attractive offer. Or
: perhaps they are content with the sort of person who will work for a
: quarter of the 'going rate'; in which case, it isn't really your problem,
: is it?
:
: Being a 'licensed professional' has never been a guarantee of good pay, or
: of any work. No matter how much skill is involved. Presumably there is
: already a 'professional body' of some sort in which members of that
: profession can get together to do such things as eject members whose
: conduct (such as working for too little, or failing to maintain the
: standard of work) falls below what the others agree is an acceptable
: minimum.
:
: If a government agency is knowingly employing contractors who have been
: ejected from their professional body for such misconduct, then that
: sounds like political dynamite. Likewise if the licensing authority
: continues to grant licenses to such people.

Social Security hires physicians as IME (independent? medical examiners)
that have lost their privileges to treat patients for various reasons
including insurance fraud and drug abuse. Expect no change as the practice
has been in place for over 15 years to my personal knowledge.


 
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Pennywise@DerryMaine.Gov
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      03-02-2009
chuckcar <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>"Charlie Darwin" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
>news:go9lne$ek$(E-Mail Removed):
>
>> Under a Blanket Purchase Agreement, a US Government agency contracts
>> with a large number of independent professionals (most of whom are
>> self-employed, in private practice and are spread across the county) to
>> provide variably scheduled contract services to hundreds of local agency
>> offices across the country.
>>
>> Is there a way these people can organize and seek union representation?


>Depends on how long the average contract is. If you're talking about 3
>months, it's pretty pointless now isn't it?


What an idiot. ----------Macro time

(setq (chuck nil) car(chuck) )
chucktard, Chuckturd, idiot, clueless, many more names this persons is
called as time goes on. He makes no friends and alienates all he comes
in contact with.

He will give wrong information, stick to it to his last breath, then
change his stance to the proper solution when it appears - taking
credit for it as well.

This person has no self pity and will steal others advice as his own.
It's quite obvious when it happens.

(setq (chuck nil) car(chuck) ) always has to appear right or correct
and those long threads you see involving him is a "who can last the
longest" or just the fact that he has to be right no matter how wrong
he is. and I swear, last post appears important as well, an awful
combination.

While this is no problem and has happened before, this person will
give advice that can cause you to lose your data, lose your computer
(bad bios info) or just flat screw you.

(setq (chuck nil) car(chuck) ) is a person who has never used a NT OS
yet feels quite comfortable giving advice he has never used himself.

Apparently advice was given by a very well known troll that was and
eaiser to implement and had a back up plan if anything went wrong;
than the ramble of bs (setq (chuck nil) car(chuck) ) was coming up
with, making him, in his mind lower than this troll.

Seriously if you receive advice from (setq (chuck nil) car(chuck) ),
google the information first to see if it's even in the ball park.

This group likes the fact it's able to help others, (setq (chuck nil)
car(chuck) ) really doesn't care about the user, just how he comes
across (and that's always being seen as right)

This person has started childs attempt for attention, and this macro
is my answer. Sorry bout that.

But (setq (chuck nil) car(chuck) ) anytime you come up with some of
your bogus advice, I will call you on it.

Pennywise.
--

kinda hard to explain.
http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/9365/4051.jpg
 
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NotMe
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Posts: n/a
 
      03-02-2009

"Bill" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:MPG.2414c78dfa81b66b989681@localhost...
: In article <goe34j$fos$(E-Mail Removed)>, http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed) says...
: >
: >
: <snip>
:
: > :
: > : If a government agency is knowingly employing contractors who have
been
: > : ejected from their professional body for such misconduct, then that
: > : sounds like political dynamite. Likewise if the licensing authority
: > : continues to grant licenses to such people.
: >
: > Social Security hires physicians as IME (independent? medical examiners)
: > that have lost their privileges to treat patients for various reasons
: > including insurance fraud and drug abuse. Expect no change as the
practice
: > has been in place for over 15 years to my personal knowledge.
:
:
: Do SS IME's actually treat patients?

Some do but not under SSA as it's not a requirement for SSA or insurance
purposes.

the technical definition of IME is Independent but most consider the title
to be INSURANCE as their decision tend to be toward company. (most know
their offer of job is dependant on the company. A propensity to decide for
the patient and the IME does not get called to work. (same applies to
mandatory credit card arbitration)




 
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