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Suggested improvements for IDLE (non-official)

 
 
r
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      01-14-2009
I actually like the IDLE, but it could use a few improvements. If
anybody else has suggestions by all means post them.

1.) The text widget and the prompt(>>>) should be separated. Trying to
write a conditional in the interactive IDLE is a real PITA. Not to
mention if you copy the working code snippet to the IDLE editor window
the indention is 8 spaces instead 4 AND you've got that prompt(>>>)
stuck in there. I have a solution for the problem though.( I hope you
all are using fixed-width font)

frm |<---------------------text widget ----------------->
>>> |
>>> |if this == 1:

.... | if that == 2:
.... | #do
.... | elif that ==3:
.... | #do
.... | else:
.... | pass
>>> |
>>> |x = 10


Basically you have a Listbox on the left for the prompt and a Text on
the right. Disable the Listbox highlight and key press events and now
we have a very friendly interactive IDLE! No more prompt hijacking
your snippets, and no more 8 space indention!

2.) When you press MMB and there is a highlighted selection in the
text it gets pasted over and over again @ the insertion cursor (gives
me the red @ss!)

Anybody want to comment or add suggestions?
 
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James Stroud
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      01-14-2009
r wrote:
> I actually like the IDLE, but it could use a few improvements. If
> anybody else has suggestions by all means post them.
>
> 1.) The text widget and the prompt(>>>) should be separated. Trying to
> write a conditional in the interactive IDLE is a real PITA. Not to
> mention if you copy the working code snippet to the IDLE editor window
> the indention is 8 spaces instead 4 AND you've got that prompt(>>>)
> stuck in there. I have a solution for the problem though.( I hope you
> all are using fixed-width font)
>
> frm |<---------------------text widget ----------------->
>>>> |
>>>> |if this == 1:

> ... | if that == 2:
> ... | #do
> ... | elif that ==3:
> ... | #do
> ... | else:
> ... | pass
>>>> |
>>>> |x = 10


Brilliantly put. This is probably the main reason that IDLE is not worth
using. Good luck on getting this changed. Best is to find yourself
another IDE. Try vim.

> Basically you have a Listbox on the left for the prompt and a Text on
> the right. Disable the Listbox highlight and key press events and now
> we have a very friendly interactive IDLE! No more prompt hijacking
> your snippets, and no more 8 space indention!


Excellent suggestions are a dime a dozen. Finding people to implement
them is slightly harder. Getting said suggestions accepted into the
python distribution is nearly impossible. Accept what you are given and
try vim.

If you really want a cool IDE, try Leo. It had some bugs about 4 years
ago when I tried it, but I'm sure they have been worked out now. I'm
addicted to vim, but if I wasn't, I'd probably be using Leo.

James
 
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r
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      01-14-2009
Hello James,
I actually want to trash IDLE and start over. I would be willing to do
a complete re-write. I have already made a template GUI that works
(early stages). I am wondering if anyone else might be interested in
taking this on with me? IMO IDLE is full of fluff where it should not
be, and thin where it should be fat. Trim off the fat and lean this
puppy up! I like that in ActiveState's version you can delete as much
text as you want. IDLE won't allow it.

I want a better setup for extensions, and complete control of mouse
and key bindings for the user. We need to clean the dust off and
polish IDLE up a bit. If not, i will just write up a simplified
version it for myself. I just thought someone out there may be
thinking like i am.
 
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Terry Reedy
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      01-14-2009
James Stroud wrote:
> r wrote:
>> I actually like the IDLE, but it could use a few improvements. If
>> anybody else has suggestions by all means post them.
>>
>> 1.) The text widget and the prompt(>>>) should be separated. Trying to
>> write a conditional in the interactive IDLE is a real PITA. Not to
>> mention if you copy the working code snippet to the IDLE editor window
>> the indention is 8 spaces instead 4 AND you've got that prompt(>>>)
>> stuck in there. I have a solution for the problem though.( I hope you
>> all are using fixed-width font)
>>
>> frm |<---------------------text widget ----------------->
>>>>> |
>>>>> |if this == 1:

>> ... | if that == 2:
>> ... | #do
>> ... | elif that ==3:
>> ... | #do
>> ... | else:
>> ... | pass
>>>>> |
>>>>> |x = 10

>
> Brilliantly put. This is probably the main reason that IDLE is not worth
> using. Good luck on getting this changed. Best is to find yourself
> another IDE. Try vim.
>
>> Basically you have a Listbox on the left for the prompt and a Text on
>> the right. Disable the Listbox highlight and key press events and now
>> we have a very friendly interactive IDLE! No more prompt hijacking
>> your snippets, and no more 8 space indention!

>
> Excellent suggestions are a dime a dozen. Finding people to implement
> them is slightly harder. Getting said suggestions accepted into the
> python distribution is nearly impossible. Accept what you are given and
> try vim.


My doc suggestions get accepted regularly, sometimes within hours.

I think the 'main' IDLE maintainer is no longer active. I think someone
who would do more than fix critical bugs might be welcome.

 
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r
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      01-14-2009
On Jan 14, 4:43*pm, Terry Reedy <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
[snip]
> I think the 'main' IDLE maintainer is no longer active. *I think someone
> who would do more than fix critical bugs might be welcome.


Hello Terry,
That's what i was beginning to think. I am not quite ready (as far as
my skills are concerned) to put out something that would be as useful
to many people. I could hack together something real quick for myself.
This is why i am looking for like-minded people who would be
interested in this. I have the foresight and willpower at this point
to contribute something meaningful to the Python community -- to give
back.

OFF-TOPICbut related)
What is the state of Tkinter at this point. Is an active effort under
way to port TK 8.5 into Python? Tkinter and IDLE are very important to
Python, but i understand there are much more important areas where the
GURU's are concentrating. Should there be a calling for "others" to
get involved here? I would like to help out.
Thanks
 
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Terry Reedy
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      01-15-2009
r wrote:
> On Jan 14, 4:43 pm, Terry Reedy <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> [snip]
>> I think the 'main' IDLE maintainer is no longer active. I think someone
>> who would do more than fix critical bugs might be welcome.

>
> Hello Terry,
> That's what i was beginning to think. I am not quite ready (as far as
> my skills are concerned) to put out something that would be as useful
> to many people. I could hack together something real quick for myself.
> This is why i am looking for like-minded people who would be
> interested in this. I have the foresight and willpower at this point
> to contribute something meaningful to the Python community -- to give
> back.


If you are willing and able to channel your obvious enthusiasm and
energy into incremental improvements, you could make meaningful
contributions within weeks and months. If you go to
http://bugs.python.org/issue?@template=search&status=1
and select IDLE in the 'Components' field and hit 'Search',
you will get a list of (at the moment) 66 open issues. Some are bug
reports, some feature requests. Some have patches waiting for review
and some not. There may be some (near?) duplicate and obsolete items
that could be closed after review. Pick one issue and help resolve it.

Reviewing exiting patches would be definitely helpful. For instance, I
would particularly like to see
http://bugs.python.org/issue2704
Patch to make PyShell behave more like a Terminal interface
tested and applied. It was posted last April and revised in June.

Should you decide to do this, and wish further input from me, let me
know, on or off list.

> OFF-TOPICbut related)
> What is the state of Tkinter at this point. Is an active effort under
> way to port TK 8.5 into Python? Tkinter and IDLE are very important to
> Python, but i understand there are much more important areas where the
> GURU's are concentrating. Should there be a calling for "others" to
> get involved here? I would like to help out.


Running a search from the same page for '8.5' in the 'All text' box gave
no hits. I would tend to expect that 8.5 upgrades to tkinter would be
welcome at some point, but anyone actively ready to work on it could
open a tracker issue or inquire on py-dev first.

Terry Jan Reedy

 
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Terry Reedy
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      01-16-2009
Tim H wrote:
> r wrote:
>> On Jan 14, 4:43 pm, Terry Reedy <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:


>> OFF-TOPICbut related)
>> What is the state of Tkinter at this point. Is an active effort under
>> way to port TK 8.5 into Python? Tkinter and IDLE are very important to
>> Python, but i understand there are much more important areas where the
>> GURU's are concentrating. Should there be a calling for "others" to
>> get involved here? I would like to help out.
>> Thanks

>
> Maybe I'm misunderstanding something here, but "About Idle" in Python
> 2.6.1 (win32) says "Tk version: 8.5"


Same in 3.0. I check .../python30/tcl/ and it has tck8/ tcl8.5, tix8.4,
tk8.5 subdirs.

 
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r
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      01-24-2009
On Jan 16, 1:55*am, Terry Reedy <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> > Maybe I'm misunderstanding something here, but "About Idle" in Python
> > 2.6.1 (win32) says "Tk version: 8.5"



As to Tk, i was referring to Themes. I may have the versions mixed up
but the newest TK supports themes and i would love to get that support
into Tkinter, This will help shine up python a bit.
 
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