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script for processing donations

 
 
Neredbojias
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      01-15-2009
On 14 Jan 2009, Tim Greer <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> Neredbojias wrote:
>> Did you know that when you sign up for a Paypal account for e.g.
>> Ebay, you sign-away your right to fraud protection via your bank?
>> It's embedded in their TOS, so I wouldn't go around recommending
>> Paypal too freely.
>>

>
> That really depends on what you mean by fraud protection. If anyone
> does an electronic transfer from your account or uses a debit card,
> the protection is reduced or even non existent, depending. If you
> use a CC with paypal, you have your CC protection if paypal fails to
> protect you. Any site you enter your bank account information where
> someone could use that service to withdraw money electronically,
> always increases the risks and reduces the protections.
>
> I've not read paypal's TOS in a while though, so perhaps you mean
> something else? Don't get me wrong, I don't use paypal anytime I can
> help it, I think they and ebay are not worth anywhere near what they
> charge and I believe their policies are poor. Unfortunately, we have
> to use them as an option, since that's what some people want.
> Luckily, we've never had any complaints to have to deal with, but we
> run no risk on our end, as only we'd initiate a transfer/payment.


The TOS includes (a) waiver statement(s) dictating your agreement to
forego certain cc protective benefits. Full interpretation probably
requires an attorney, but I guarentee it's a dangerous contract to
endorse.

--
Neredbojias
http://www.neredbojias.org/
http://www.neredbojias.net/
The road to Heaven is paved with bad intentions.
 
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Tim Greer
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      01-15-2009
Neredbojias wrote:

> On 14 Jan 2009, Tim Greer <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> Neredbojias wrote:
>>> Did you know that when you sign up for a Paypal account for e.g.
>>> Ebay, you sign-away your right to fraud protection via your bank?
>>> It's embedded in their TOS, so I wouldn't go around recommending
>>> Paypal too freely.
>>>

>>
>> That really depends on what you mean by fraud protection. If anyone
>> does an electronic transfer from your account or uses a debit card,
>> the protection is reduced or even non existent, depending. If you
>> use a CC with paypal, you have your CC protection if paypal fails to
>> protect you. Any site you enter your bank account information where
>> someone could use that service to withdraw money electronically,
>> always increases the risks and reduces the protections.
>>
>> I've not read paypal's TOS in a while though, so perhaps you mean
>> something else? Don't get me wrong, I don't use paypal anytime I can
>> help it, I think they and ebay are not worth anywhere near what they
>> charge and I believe their policies are poor. Unfortunately, we have
>> to use them as an option, since that's what some people want.
>> Luckily, we've never had any complaints to have to deal with, but we
>> run no risk on our end, as only we'd initiate a transfer/payment.

>
> The TOS includes (a) waiver statement(s) dictating your agreement to
> forego certain cc protective benefits. Full interpretation probably
> requires an attorney, but I guarentee it's a dangerous contract to
> endorse.
>


Forgoing protections regarding paypal or paypal's CC, or your own CC
that you decide to use to buy items with over paypal? In other words,
I've not read anything in their TOS that would affect your own CC,
unless maybe the CC companies don't like paypal because it allows a
popular place online to affectively store your CC for use by anyone
with your account login.
--
Tim Greer, CEO/Founder/CTO, BurlyHost.com, Inc.
Shared Hosting, Reseller Hosting, Dedicated & Semi-Dedicated servers
and Custom Hosting. 24/7 support, 30 day guarantee, secure servers.
Industry's most experienced staff! -- Web Hosting With Muscle!
 
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Tim Greer
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Posts: n/a
 
      01-15-2009
Adrian wrote:

> "Tim Greer" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:zGtbl.87124$(E-Mail Removed)...
>> Adrian wrote:
>>
>>> "Tim Greer" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>> news:j%qbl.48956$(E-Mail Removed)...
>>>> Fulio Open wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I maintain my own web site for academic discussion on language,
>>>>> and would like to set up a device in the home page for my visitors
>>>>> to make donations to support my research. I made donations online
>>>>> many times. The steps usually are that visitors click a button to
>>>>> go to a page
>>>>> where they can pay an amount of money with their credit cards.
>>>>> The
>>>>> funds will go to a bank account of the solicitor. Ordering
>>>>> merchandise online with credit cards is of the same nature.
>>>>>
>>>>> I wonder if there is a script that I can copy and paste to my web
>>>>> site, or some tutorials teaching me to accomplish this task. I
>>>>> guess one needs to provide information of a bank account for the
>>>>> funds to go to.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for your help and expertise.
>>>>>
>>>>> fulio pen
>>>>
>>>> Most sites I know of that ask for donations, have a mailing address
>>>> to send checks, maybe bank wire transfer info as well, but usually
>>>> just link to the paypal address of their paypal account (or the
>>>> account of
>>>> the organization in question). If you want to accept credit cards,
>>>> it will depend if the organization has that set up and if they
>>>> allow some access or have some code you can insert into your web
>>>> page document, or if you just want to direct site visitors there,
>>>> if they wish to make a
>>>> donation. This depends on several variables to give you the most
>>>> appropriate answer.
>>>> --

>> <please don't quote signatures>
>>>
>>> Supposing you use PayPall as a means for customers to pay for goods
>>> sold to them by you. Supposing from time to time you transfer money
>>> from PayPall to your own bank, say in the UK. Surely there is no
>>> risk associated with the UK
>>> bank? Could someone please explain which risk is incurred, and
>>> where, in the previous example?
>>>
>>> Adrian.

>>
>> The risk with paypal, is that people can claim they didn't get the
>> product you ship them, or that it wasn't in the condition described
>> on
>> the site, and so on. However, if they are donating money, I really
>> don't see how someone could complain or that you'd run a risk.
>>
>> At first, I thought the OP's post made it sound like they just wanted
>> to link to the merchant interface that a charity used. However, I see
>> it's just the site owner saying "if you like this site, please make a
>> donation to help me", and no product or service is expressed or
>> implied. So, I don't know what risks there could possibly be
>> associated with that. UK bank or not, it shouldn't matter.
>> --


<please don't quote signatures>


> Thank you for the above. But what about if you sell, say software, it
> is paid for via PayPall, the buyer doesn't like the software, and
> wants his or her money back.


If you sell something, yes, then the risks change. Paypal does view
certain things, such as electronic data and services (especially online
services) differently, because people could complain just to get a
refund after they've received a (downloaded) file or service.

> Then ("option 1") Possibly PayPall
> refunds the money or ("option 2") PayPall does nothing. Which risk
> enters into the picture in either case? In case of option 1 you would
> loose the payment, but if there is no balance with PayPall, because
> you have withdrawn it all, do things go wrong then?


If you don't have the money for paypal to withdraw, they will freeze the
paypal account until you resolve it, or can dispute it and prove you
don't owe the customer (but you'd need to do that before they froze the
account). I believe if someone complains and wants a refund, and you
don't give it, that paypal could lock the account where you can't
withdraw the funds until the issue is resolved (either in your favor or
not). Some cases can be difficult to prove. Sometimes paypal makes it
difficult for someone to get honesty and justice. I've only ever made
a complaint about buying something before, where the guy never sent the
item I paid for. PP didn't do anything to help me. Beyond that, I
know of stories where people have had customers get a product and then
say they didn't and PP will rule in their favor and the business it out
the product and the money, which is why a lot of people are too
paranoid to use PP, if they can help it.
--
Tim Greer, CEO/Founder/CTO, BurlyHost.com, Inc.
Shared Hosting, Reseller Hosting, Dedicated & Semi-Dedicated servers
and Custom Hosting. 24/7 support, 30 day guarantee, secure servers.
Industry's most experienced staff! -- Web Hosting With Muscle!
 
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Adrian
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Posts: n/a
 
      01-15-2009

"Tim Greer" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:AZKbl.28025$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Adrian wrote:
>
>> "Tim Greer" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> news:zGtbl.87124$(E-Mail Removed)...
>>> Adrian wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Tim Greer" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>>> news:j%qbl.48956$(E-Mail Removed)...
>>>>> Fulio Open wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I maintain my own web site for academic discussion on language,
>>>>>> and would like to set up a device in the home page for my visitors
>>>>>> to make donations to support my research. I made donations online
>>>>>> many times. The steps usually are that visitors click a button to
>>>>>> go to a page
>>>>>> where they can pay an amount of money with their credit cards.
>>>>>> The
>>>>>> funds will go to a bank account of the solicitor. Ordering
>>>>>> merchandise online with credit cards is of the same nature.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I wonder if there is a script that I can copy and paste to my web
>>>>>> site, or some tutorials teaching me to accomplish this task. I
>>>>>> guess one needs to provide information of a bank account for the
>>>>>> funds to go to.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks for your help and expertise.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> fulio pen
>>>>>
>>>>> Most sites I know of that ask for donations, have a mailing address
>>>>> to send checks, maybe bank wire transfer info as well, but usually
>>>>> just link to the paypal address of their paypal account (or the
>>>>> account of
>>>>> the organization in question). If you want to accept credit cards,
>>>>> it will depend if the organization has that set up and if they
>>>>> allow some access or have some code you can insert into your web
>>>>> page document, or if you just want to direct site visitors there,
>>>>> if they wish to make a
>>>>> donation. This depends on several variables to give you the most
>>>>> appropriate answer.
>>>>> --
>>> <please don't quote signatures>
>>>>
>>>> Supposing you use PayPall as a means for customers to pay for goods
>>>> sold to them by you. Supposing from time to time you transfer money
>>>> from PayPall to your own bank, say in the UK. Surely there is no
>>>> risk associated with the UK
>>>> bank? Could someone please explain which risk is incurred, and
>>>> where, in the previous example?
>>>>
>>>> Adrian.
>>>
>>> The risk with paypal, is that people can claim they didn't get the
>>> product you ship them, or that it wasn't in the condition described
>>> on
>>> the site, and so on. However, if they are donating money, I really
>>> don't see how someone could complain or that you'd run a risk.
>>>
>>> At first, I thought the OP's post made it sound like they just wanted
>>> to link to the merchant interface that a charity used. However, I see
>>> it's just the site owner saying "if you like this site, please make a
>>> donation to help me", and no product or service is expressed or
>>> implied. So, I don't know what risks there could possibly be
>>> associated with that. UK bank or not, it shouldn't matter.
>>> --

>
> <please don't quote signatures>
>
>
>> Thank you for the above. But what about if you sell, say software, it
>> is paid for via PayPall, the buyer doesn't like the software, and
>> wants his or her money back.

>
> If you sell something, yes, then the risks change. Paypal does view
> certain things, such as electronic data and services (especially online
> services) differently, because people could complain just to get a
> refund after they've received a (downloaded) file or service.
>
>> Then ("option 1") Possibly PayPall
>> refunds the money or ("option 2") PayPall does nothing. Which risk
>> enters into the picture in either case? In case of option 1 you would
>> loose the payment, but if there is no balance with PayPall, because
>> you have withdrawn it all, do things go wrong then?

>
> If you don't have the money for paypal to withdraw, they will freeze the
> paypal account until you resolve it, or can dispute it and prove you
> don't owe the customer (but you'd need to do that before they froze the
> account). I believe if someone complains and wants a refund, and you
> don't give it, that paypal could lock the account where you can't
> withdraw the funds until the issue is resolved (either in your favor or
> not). Some cases can be difficult to prove. Sometimes paypal makes it
> difficult for someone to get honesty and justice. I've only ever made
> a complaint about buying something before, where the guy never sent the
> item I paid for. PP didn't do anything to help me. Beyond that, I
> know of stories where people have had customers get a product and then
> say they didn't and PP will rule in their favor and the business it out
> the product and the money, which is why a lot of people are too
> paranoid to use PP, if they can help it.
> --
> Tim Greer, CEO/Founder/CTO, BurlyHost.com, Inc.
> Shared Hosting, Reseller Hosting, Dedicated & Semi-Dedicated servers
> and Custom Hosting. 24/7 support, 30 day guarantee, secure servers.
> Industry's most experienced staff! -- Web Hosting With Muscle!

************************************************** *
So you make sure your balance with PayPall doesn't get too high. And if a
customer srews you, you just accept it. (Littigation would cost more.) Any
business has dubious debtors. The tax authorities might allow setting aside
part of your profits on the balance sheet as a provision for bad debts . If
the unit price of your peoducts is extremely high you wouldn't need PP. So
personally I don't see much of a problem. Risk cannot be avoided, you simply
have to do some risk management (commercial risk, financial risk, legal
risk, etc.).

Adrian.




 
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Tim Greer
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      01-16-2009
Adrian wrote:

> So you make sure your balance with PayPall doesn't get too high. And
> if a customer srews you, you just accept it. (Littigation would cost
> more.) Any business has dubious debtors. The tax authorities might
> allow setting aside part of your profits on the balance sheet as a
> provision for bad debts . If the unit price of your peoducts is
> extremely high you wouldn't¬*¬*need¬*PP.¬*So personally I don't see much
> of a problem. Risk cannot be avoided, you simply have to do some risk
> management (commercial risk, financial risk, legal risk, etc.).


I'm unsure why you are replying to my reply, as if I asked the question,
I only offered my view about the previous scenario. Ultimately, you
shouldn't have to worry, provided you offer the product and service you
promote. Any downloads, services or product the customer receives is
proof of that service or sale, so you shouldn't need to worry about it
anyway. Also, depending on what you offer for sale, sometimes people
don't like using a check or credit card or wire transfer and actually
want to use PP, so it's probably a good idea to offer for a payment
option, at least if the demand is there from enough potential clients
wanting to use PP.
--
Tim Greer, CEO/Founder/CTO, BurlyHost.com, Inc.
Shared Hosting, Reseller Hosting, Dedicated & Semi-Dedicated servers
and Custom Hosting. 24/7 support, 30 day guarantee, secure servers.
Industry's most experienced staff! -- Web Hosting With Muscle!
 
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Fulio Open
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Posts: n/a
 
      01-16-2009
On Jan 15, 8:36*pm, Tim Greer <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> Adrian wrote:
> > So you make sure your balance with PayPall doesn't get too high. And
> > if a customer srews you, you just accept it. (Littigation would cost
> > more.) Any business has dubious debtors. The tax authorities might
> > allow setting aside part of your profits on the balance sheet as a
> > provision for bad debts . If the unit price of your peoducts is
> > extremely high you wouldn't**need*PP.*So personally I don't see much
> > of a problem. Risk cannot be avoided, you simply have to do some risk
> > management (commercial risk, financial risk, legal risk, etc.).

>
> I'm unsure why you are replying to my reply, as if I asked the question,
> I only offered my view about the previous scenario. *Ultimately, you
> shouldn't have to worry, provided you offer the product and service you
> promote. *Any downloads, services or product the customer receives is
> proof of that service or sale, so you shouldn't need to worry about it
> anyway. *Also, depending on what you offer for sale, sometimes people
> don't like using a check or credit card or wire transfer and actually
> want to use PP, so it's probably a good idea to offer for a payment
> option, at least if the demand is there from enough potential clients
> wanting to use PP.
> --
> Tim Greer, CEO/Founder/CTO, BurlyHost.com, Inc.
> Shared Hosting, Reseller Hosting, Dedicated & Semi-Dedicated servers
> and Custom Hosting. *24/7 support, 30 day guarantee, secure servers.
> Industry's most experienced staff! -- Web Hosting With Muscle!


I want to thank all of you again for your help.

fulio pen
 
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Neredbojias
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      01-16-2009
On 15 Jan 2009, Tim Greer <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> Neredbojias wrote:
>> The TOS includes (a) waiver statement(s) dictating your agreement to
>> forego certain cc protective benefits. Full interpretation probably
>> requires an attorney, but I guarentee it's a dangerous contract to
>> endorse.
>>

>
> Forgoing protections regarding paypal or paypal's CC, or your own CC
> that you decide to use to buy items with over paypal? In other
> words, I've not read anything in their TOS that would affect your own
> CC, unless maybe the CC companies don't like paypal because it allows
> a popular place online to affectively store your CC for use by anyone
> with your account login.


I haven't read their TOS (fully) per se but received the information I
related from a compliant which I corroborated with several other
complaints of a similar nature. Google is your friend.

The following link also is quite illuminating regarding the subject at
hand:

http://www.aboutpaypal.org/

--
Neredbojias
http://www.neredbojias.org/
http://www.neredbojias.net/
The road to Heaven is paved with bad intentions.
 
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Tim Greer
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      01-16-2009
Neredbojias wrote:

> On 15 Jan 2009, Tim Greer <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> Neredbojias wrote:
>>> The TOS includes (a) waiver statement(s) dictating your agreement to
>>> forego certain cc protective benefits. Full interpretation probably
>>> requires an attorney, but I guarentee it's a dangerous contract to
>>> endorse.
>>>

>>
>> Forgoing protections regarding paypal or paypal's CC, or your own CC
>> that you decide to use to buy items with over paypal? In other
>> words, I've not read anything in their TOS that would affect your own
>> CC, unless maybe the CC companies don't like paypal because it allows
>> a popular place online to affectively store your CC for use by anyone
>> with your account login.

>
> I haven't read their TOS (fully) per se but received the information I
> related from a compliant which I corroborated with several other
> complaints of a similar nature. Google is your friend.


Right, I just didn't feel like searching around, hoping to know what
terms to use, just to verify something I heard vaguely mentioned on
usenet, you understand.

> The following link also is quite illuminating regarding the subject at
> hand:
>
> http://www.aboutpaypal.org/
>


I've read that before, I might have to take a look again some day, but
for now, it's only an option I use for either personal transactions
with people I trust to buy from or sell to, or for a payment option for
the business, which we haven't had a problem with either. The service
itself isn't worth the money, but we wanted to cater to people that
only use it (and there seems to be a lot of them). Ultimately, I hope
ebay and paypal just go away and there are better options that replace
them both.
--
Tim Greer, CEO/Founder/CTO, BurlyHost.com, Inc.
Shared Hosting, Reseller Hosting, Dedicated & Semi-Dedicated servers
and Custom Hosting. 24/7 support, 30 day guarantee, secure servers.
Industry's most experienced staff! -- Web Hosting With Muscle!
 
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