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Velocity Reviews > Newsgroups > Programming > HTML > On some web sites I see that <p> is not used.

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On some web sites I see that <p> is not used.

 
 
dorayme
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      01-14-2009
In article
<(E-Mail Removed)>,
Andy Dingley <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> On 13 Jan, 20:16, dorayme <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> > In article
> > <(E-Mail Removed)>,
> > *Andy Dingley <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> >
> > > Uses XHTML. Always a sign of cluelessness unless the author can
> > > demonstrate some good reason _why_.

> >
> > This is one of those in-house statements that needs to be taken with a
> > grain of salt.

>
> I didn't say that it was wrong to do this, merely that's it's one of
> several fuzzy flags as to lack of clue. An XML PI OTOH, now that _is_
> harmfully wrong.


"Always a sign" I took to mean something like "an invariable
concomitant". But if it is just a fuzzy flag, a ding of entirely
possible cluelessness, then that is different.

(I used to think that religious people *must* be incompetent in their
normal jobs because of certain views I have of the kind of thinking that
leads to religion. In other words, there was an invariable connection to
wild thought outside religious thinking). But I now see that they do not
employ the same kind of thinking anywhere else in their lives, their
mental operations in regard to religion are highly compartmentalized. So
much so, imo, that I do not believe many people actually believe in God
(contrary to the appearance and to what they say they believe). I have
changed the assessment I make of the reliability of the flag in this
case).

--
dorayme
 
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murray.nuttall@gmail.com
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      01-15-2009
Not only should you be striving for semantic richness, you should also
spare a thought for people using screen readers. I'm pretty sure a
screen reader won't insert pauses to separate the text.
 
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dorayme
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      01-16-2009
In article
<(E-Mail Removed)>,
http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed) wrote:

> Not only should you be striving for semantic richness, you should also
> spare a thought for people using screen readers. I'm pretty sure a
> screen reader won't insert pauses to separate the text.


Yes, it is like gold dust, semantic richness, the more the better eh?

Let's look at the particular context, the OP had, stuff like:

<h1>Website Design</h1>

<strong>Website design</strong> is the part of building a website which
can include design ...

<h2>How can I benefit from website design?</h2>

A truly well designed website can turn into a strong marketing tool, the
primary objective of which is to ...

<h2>Services we offer:</h2>

(all in a big wrapper div)

and you are saying you are sure a screen reader would not pause after
the </h1> or before the <h2>. How about telling us if this is so or not.

--
dorayme
 
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murray.nuttall@gmail.com
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      01-16-2009
> Yes, it is like gold dust, semantic richness, the more the better eh?
>
> Let's look at the particular context, the OP had, stuff like:
>
> <h1>Website Design</h1>
>
> <strong>Website design</strong> is the part of building a website which
> can include design ...
>
> <h2>How can I benefit from website design?</h2>
>
> A truly well designed website can turn into a strong marketing tool, the *
> primary objective of which is to ...
>
> <h2>Services we offer:</h2>
>
> (all in a big wrapper div)
>
> and you are saying you are sure a screen reader would not pause after
> the </h1> or before the <h2>. How about telling us if this is so or not.
>
> --
> dorayme


What I'm really saying is that if it's a paragraph put it in a <p>
tag. That's the underlying message.

 
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dorayme
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      01-16-2009
In article
<(E-Mail Removed)>,
(E-Mail Removed) wrote:

> > Yes, it is like gold dust, semantic richness, the more the better eh?
> >
> > Let's look at the particular context, the OP had, stuff like:
> >
> > <h1>Website Design</h1>
> >
> > <strong>Website design</strong> is the part of building a website which
> > can include design ...
> >
> > <h2>How can I benefit from website design?</h2>
> >
> > A truly well designed website can turn into a strong marketing tool, the *
> > primary objective of which is to ...
> >
> > <h2>Services we offer:</h2>
> >
> > (all in a big wrapper div)
> >
> > and you are saying you are sure a screen reader would not pause after
> > the </h1> or before the <h2>. How about telling us if this is so or not.
> >
> > --
> > dorayme

>
> What I'm really saying is that if it's a paragraph put it in a <p>
> tag. That's the underlying message.


<says the spider to the fly> But I said that earlier in the thread. So
did others I am sure. I was taking up what might have been a bit new in
your post. But I see you won't bite! Why not poke a tar baby when you
have a chance.</g>

--
dorayme
 
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Chaddy2222
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      01-16-2009
On Jan 16, 11:56*am, dorayme <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> In article
> <(E-Mail Removed)>,
>
>
>
>
>
> *(E-Mail Removed) wrote:
> > > Yes, it is like gold dust, semantic richness, the more the better eh?

>
> > > Let's look at the particular context, the OP had, stuff like:

>
> > > <h1>Website Design</h1>

>
> > > <strong>Website design</strong> is the part of building a website which
> > > can include design ...

>
> > > <h2>How can I benefit from website design?</h2>

>
> > > A truly well designed website can turn into a strong marketing tool, the *
> > > primary objective of which is to ...

>
> > > <h2>Services we offer:</h2>

>
> > > (all in a big wrapper div)

>
> > > and you are saying you are sure a screen reader would not pause after
> > > the </h1> or before the <h2>. How about telling us if this is so or not.

>
> > > --
> > > dorayme

>
> > What I'm really saying is that if it's a paragraph put it in a <p>
> > tag. That's the underlying message.

>
> <says the spider to the fly> But I said that earlier in the thread. So
> did others I am sure. I was taking up what might have been a bit new in
> your post. But I see you won't bite! Why not poke a tar baby when you
> have a chance.</g>
>
>

On the note of screen readers, if you do not have text marked up in a
paragraph, then that block of text will be read out as if it was one
very long paragraph, and the whole thing is just a mess really.
--
Regards Chad. http://freewebdesignonline.org
 
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dorayme
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      01-16-2009
In article
<(E-Mail Removed)>,
Chaddy2222 <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> On Jan 16, 11:56*am, dorayme wrote:


> > > > Let's look at the particular context, the OP had stuff like:

> >

....
> >
> > > What I'm really saying is that if it's a paragraph put it in a <p>
> > > tag. That's the underlying message.

> >
> >... But I said that earlier in the thread. So
> > did others I am sure. I was taking up what might have been a bit new in
> > your post.
> >

> On the note of screen readers, if you do not have text marked up in a
> paragraph, then that block of text will be read out as if it was one
> very long paragraph, and the whole thing is just a mess really.


If a bit of text is one paragraph anyway, then what does it matter in
respect to the pausing if it is wrapped in a paragraph element in the
context I mentioned? Neither murray nor you has given any feedback on
this. I suspect it does not matter, but would be happy to be corrected.

--
dorayme
 
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Murray
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      01-16-2009

> If a bit of text is one paragraph anyway, then what does it matter in
> respect to the pausing if it is wrapped in a paragraph element in the
> context I mentioned? Neither murray nor you has given any feedback on
> this. I suspect it does not matter, but would be happy to be corrected.
>
> --
> dorayme


It works fine.
 
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dorayme
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      01-16-2009
In article
<(E-Mail Removed)>,
Murray <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> > If a bit of text is one paragraph anyway, then what does it matter in
> > respect to the pausing if it is wrapped in a paragraph element in the
> > context I mentioned? Neither murray nor you has given any feedback on
> > this. I suspect it does not matter, but would be happy to be corrected.
> >
> > --
> > dorayme

>
> It works fine.


Thank you.

This means, if there is no other evidence to show otherwise, that
nothing is gained to make it more meaningful to the website using public
and something is actually lost to the world.

--
dorayme
 
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rf
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      01-16-2009
(E-Mail Removed) wrote:
>> Yes, it is like gold dust, semantic richness, the more the better eh?
>>
>> Let's look at the particular context, the OP had, stuff like:
>>
>> <h1>Website Design</h1>
>>
>> <strong>Website design</strong> is the part of building a website
>> which can include design ...
>>
>> <h2>How can I benefit from website design?</h2>


Let's look at the particular context the OP had. Stuff like:

<h2>What products/services are suited for e-commerce?</h2>

Certain products/services appear more suitable...
<br/>
<br/>
The ideal products/services...
<br/>
<br/>
Products unsuitable for e-commerce...

<h2>How can I benefit from e-commerce?</h2>

These things are *clearly* paragraphs yet the author did not mark them up as
paragraphs but used <br><br> under the mistaken assumption that this would
produce a blank line visually. It might in some browsers but it is not
specified to do so. The author is probably totally unaware that this might
*not* produce a blank aurally.

<quote from subject web site>
>> A truly well designed website can turn into a strong marketing tool,

</quote>

Exactly. A truly well designed website. A poorly designed one (like this)
could well drive people (the visually impaired) away.

> What I'm really saying is that if it's a paragraph put it in a <p>
> tag. That's the underlying message.


Exactly, except that it is a paragraph element. The paragraph element
includes the opening <p> tag, the content, and the closing </p> tag. *That*
is what an aural browser is looking for to create pauses. Pauses between
paragraph elements. Not pauses *at* <p> tags or <br> tags. The author of the
subject page seem to be under the mistaken impression that <br> and
possibly <p> are "commands", like \r\n in a word processor.


 
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